Super Soil, Tea, Sythentic Nutes

[Eureka Springs Organics]

I've been basing my knowledge on comparing companies feeding charts.

The master grower I learned from said to make super soil then week 4 introduce a organic base. (He uses humbolt nutrients organic line.) He introduces this base in week 4 because he notices that growing in a 3 gallon container that plant has used all the nutrients in that the soil at that point.

I've been growing for 3 years. The first two years I've used promix with ocean forest, and then maxi crop seaweed, epsom salt, molases, big boom, pro blend and tiger bloom and had great results.

Due to the fact I get so many freebies I've started playing with added in synthetic nutres and I honestly believe I have been hurting my plants with them. I do think they work fine in veg tho. But maybe it's not as easy to notice the difference.

From a year of playing with chem nutes I see that they are not needed if you really make a heady super soil.

I'm going to try my master growers advice which i've never stayed true to and really do an organic grow. based on a heady super soil.

I currently have 4 rooms going
room 1 promix, compost tea, dyna bloom (week 7)
room 2 half promix half super soil, compost tea, dyna bloom (week 7)
room 3 promix with a little amendments (week 2 veg)
room 4 half promix half a heavy amendment soil (week 4 veg)

Anyone who calls themselves a "master grower" is not one. Cannabis growers amuse the hell out of me.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

Eureka I've been hearing good things from Miles about your organics. I'm looking forward to buying your products. - Chunky

Anything you need help with let me know. Pure organics is very easy, and the results speak for themselves. I am always here.

Miles definitely knows what he is talking about.

 

[surfguitar]

Anyone who calls themselves a "master grower" is not one. Cannabis growers amuse the hell out of me.

No doubt!

I've been having the best results I've ever had with insane simplicity using a simple home made soil mix. Every input is freakin cheap too compared to any sort of hydro bottled product so what's the point? Not to mention possible contamination in synthetic nutes(heavy metals)

 

[dank.frank]

Therefore there is little difference between high quality chemicals and organic nutes to the plant, as long as the chemicals/minerals are being used properly.

Just food for thought.

The difference comes into play when genetic expression is altered by force feeding the plant ionic solutions that it has no choice but to instantly process vs the plant taking from the soil as it dictates and deciding for itself when and what it wants...

One is a true genetic expression...the other is a synthetic expression based on conjecture of an individual trying to make the plant into something it isn't...

Rather than growing / selecting plants that truly posses all the genetic attributes we desire - we inject them with steroids to force such behavior as yield or density or shorter internodes or stronger stems, etc...

This results in people keeping less than superior plants ALL THE TIME...because the plant is only that good when on it's 'roids. It's why 95% of the "elites" fail to impress. An elite isn't truly elite if it has to be juiced up to perform.



dank.Frank

 

[Chunky Dixel]

Eureka! you're losing my interest. I'm calling someone a master grower based on what he's accomplished. This is not a person telling me he's a master grower. Miles this and I are friends and he gets excited seeing my results. Has complimented me on my product many times. I started this blog to bring up a subject that's slightly foggy. Leave your criticism of a compliment I give someone out of this.

 

[Chunky Dixel]

Let me correct my statement. I learned from a guy who's been growing for over 40 years. He's not only been growing organic herb but vegetables of all types and knows his stuff. In my opinion he's "master grower" and would not refer to himself as one ever. Things I try like mixing synthetic and organic is on my own basis and I claim ownership of that. Nobody has told me that's the best way.

 

[Chunky Dixel]

The difference comes into play when genetic expression is altered by force feeding the plant ionic solutions that it has no choice but to instantly process vs the plant taking from the soil as it dictates and deciding for itself when and what it wants...

One is a true genetic expression...the other is a synthetic expression based on conjecture of an individual trying to make the plant into something it isn't...

Rather than growing / selecting plants that truly posses all the genetic attributes we desire - we inject them with steroids to force such behavior as yield or density or shorter internodes or stronger stems, etc...

This results in people keeping less than superior plants ALL THE TIME...because the plant is only that good when on it's 'roids. It's why 95% of the "elites" fail to impress. An elite isn't truly elite if it has to be juiced up to perform.



dank.Frank

I like how you mentioned genetic expression here.

 

[Chunky Dixel]

I think the idea you have exists right here on these forums:

Chunky Dixel makes a post about how he is trying to dial in his grow to produce better flowers - and like 95% of people out there - is getting his information from a hydro store...

I feel it is now our responsibility to dissect his post and provide him with the correct information...to help him along his journey to producing better medicine.

This site - can save people literally YEARS of trial and error - and take someone from newbie to pro in a matter of a couple grows, if people are sincere about learning and improving their garden...

I'm hoping OP comes back to the thread and continues to ask questions and share the ideas he's been infected with, so we have a chance to improve upon his base knowledge and provide him with the facts...

But like you said ESO - it's up to him to digest the information and put it to practical application.

The biggest point to make so far:

Super soil (organics) and synthetics DO NOT jive. It's just not the way to go about doing things. Either grow organic and learn to understand soil - or grow with synthetics and learn as much as humanly possible about various concoctions that are in the bottles and a lot about pH ranges. There is no combination or mix of the two that will optimize a plant...



dank.Frank

I'm getting my information from comparing various nutrient manufactures feeding charts. Not from a hydro store.

 

[Avinash.miles]

I'm getting my information from comparing various nutrient manufactures feeding charts. Not from a hydro store.

i think those two sources are really one in the same... hydro stores exist primarily to peddle those nutrient companies products.

 

[dank.frank]

FWIW - I typically use 3 gallon containers, flowering under 1k...

Plants and absolutely use the nutrition provided in an organic amended soil in this time frame - IF - you have a strong, active micro herd. Using synthetics in veg, has probably depleted the herb in the original root ball, caused the mycorrhizae to stop inoculating the roots as heavily - reducing organic material breakdown and thus plant soluble ions.

Under this notion, it would make sense then, why you are having success in veg and then hitting a wall in flower with your soil mix. It may have NOTHING to do with the soil mix itself but the practices you are implementing. However, the soil mix may not be strong enough to carry the plants as well - not sure, since you haven't shared the mix with us.

For the sake of demonstration - these plants, are giving nothing but water their entire growing cycle. The same mix, veg and flower - 3 gallon bags.

These are not clones - they were grown from seed - so no experience with the plants at all. I had no previous idea of how they would grow or what they would need...but then again, I don't worry about that - the plant regulates itself.

-CannaVenture LA Affie x Chem D Bx2-

Just transplanted from veg - 1 gallon to 3 gallon - right before flip

2wks later

7wks later @ 9 wks

^^^ In the last picture, the plant in front with color is the one pictured, behind it are it's sisters that leaned more towards the Chem D Bx2 male...

Affie dom

Chem dom

dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

Again, 3 gallon pots, water only, from seed, same soil mix used for seed, veg and flower.

-Karma Genetics Brotherhood OG-

It really doesn't get any easier...



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

Not a deficiency in sight. The plants stop feeding when they enter into senescence... No need to flush.

We do not grow the plant. The plant grows itself. It is genetically coded to respond to environmental stimuli. All we do is introduce the stimuli.

If you provide a superior environment, you get the best genetic response from the plant possible. Environment = the space around the foliage and the space around the roots. Fine tune these two areas and let the plant worry about how it is going to grow.

Chunky Dixel - I only mention the aspect of genetic representation because it's key to having the best medicine available to you. If you are buying seeds and trying to utilize the best possible plants to secure your investment, it is crucial that people learn how to actually keep the BEST siblings...not the one that "appears" best - but the one that actually contains the best genetic information within itself.

This is only possible when you remove self out of the equation, stop force feeding the roots and allow the plant and only the plant to dictate it's needs.

It is one of the most over-looked advantages of true organic gardening, in my opinion...



dank.Frank

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

Frank seems to be keeping it Dank!

 

[GreenDream]

Frank, no one is doubting your ability to grow awesome medication. I was simply stating that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I have seen amazing herb grown with high quality nutrients, and I have seen absolute crap grown organically. What it really comes down to is the way the grower utilizes them. A good grower knows how to read plants and utilize the tools in their personal tool chest properly.

 

[Chunky Dixel]

good point Avi

 

[Chunky Dixel]

Dank Frank thank's for your input and pictures. Do you share your soil recipe and what are your thoughts on compost tea with super soil. It sounds like you don't even use tea.

When you transplant into your final container, how long do you veg before reducing light hours to 12?

 

[Chunky Dixel]

I can see if you wanted a boost in the second half of flower making a tea with high PK guano could come into play. Anyone doing this?

 

[dank.frank]

Frank, no one is doubting your ability to grow awesome medication. I was simply stating that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I have seen amazing herb grown with high quality nutrients, and I have seen absolute crap grown organically. What it really comes down to is the way the grower utilizes them. A good grower knows how to read plants and utilize the tools in their personal tool chest properly.

Thanks for the kind words but seeing as I use the same size containers as the OP - it makes it very relevant to him to see what is possible with a fully organic approach...

In regards to the statement in bold - I agree...completely.

The best growers, however, learn eventually to let nature do all the work and the plant to self regulate...

I'm not stating that I personally am "the best" - nothing like that at all...I know of many that have better environments than mine own and produce superior organic results. I am however saying a true organic living soil IS superior.

Again, I don't think of myself as growing the plant - all I do is provide the environmental stimuli required to produce a genetically encoded response / behavior.

Dank Frank thank's for your input and pictures. Do you share your soil recipe and what are your thoughts on compost tea with super soil. It sounds like you don't even use tea.

When you transplant into your final container, how long do you veg before reducing light hours to 12?

I don't traditionally use any teas or additional feedings - nothing but water. However, if I were to use a P/K boost, I'd either brew individual nutrient specific teas suited for such or if buying something from the store, I'd use liquid Budswel, yellow label.

Would apply during weeks 3 and 5 @ 2 tbsp per gallon for a P boost and 1 tbsp per gallon for a K boost...

But usually applying anything additional will cause slight tip burn or clawing or a bit of leaf cringe, etc...

I've got stickies at the top of the Stank Bros forum discussing some simple organic mixes that can get the job done...there are also a ton of great growers in the organic soil forum that will steer you in the correct direction on any number of various fully amended soils - all of which will get you to harvest without the need of additional fertilization.

In that regard, yes - there are many ways to build a great soil - and certainly many ways to skin a cat - but I can't agree with saying that using a mix of organic and synthetic is part of that skinning nor should it be promoted as an acceptable practice.

I stand by my first post in stating that such an approach is very counter intuitive to what organics and soil building (super soil) is all about in the first place...

I'll veg in 1 gallon containers typically for 4-8wks depending on lighting intensity and how the plants are growing. I typically veg to about 18-22" tall and then I transplant to 3 gallon and put the plants into their first 12 hour darkness period, ie into flower immediately after transplant...no additional veg time in between.



dank.Frank

 

[GreenDream]

Out of curiosity, do you reuse your soil every time? I would expect that to be a HUGE benefit of organic practices. Most phosphates take months or even years to become fully available. I have noticed in my organic vegetable gardens that they get better season after season.

 

[dank.frank]

When it comes to amendment break down times - I'm sure in our custom tailored soils, we are getting faster availability times due to increased microbial activity. We pamper our soils as much as we do our plants...it's not really a fair empirical statement to say a given break down time, without giving consideration to the type of soil such times were derived in...

I made this point in another post recently as well in regards to greensand and the availability of K in it...

Yes, I recycle my soil - I have two batches of the same size that rotate. While one is in use and being grown in, the second is given a refresh of amendments and allowed to compost for a couple months while it is not being used.

One of these days I'll really start doing things right and graduate to a full no-till approach...



dank.Frank