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Sun Pulse Pulse Start Metal Halide
- Thread starter JAHWORKS
- Start date
ItsAllOver
Devil's Advocate
It seems to me, from my research on this site and otherwise, that UV really does help trichome production. However, this assumption is based on an understanding of why and how the glands work, not on controlled experiments. This is something that I'm very interested in doing, but I don't have the money/space to do it. I want to first find out if these bulbs are actually worth anything, then try doing a grow with solely the 3k PSMH in one tent and the 3k up till the last week, switching to the 10k, in the other tent.
They make the 10k color bulb in all wattages, it seems.
I intend on moving forward with that when I can. Might be a while. Maybe someone else is in a better position to do a controlled experiment right now... hint hint
They make the 10k color bulb in all wattages, it seems.
I intend on moving forward with that when I can. Might be a while. Maybe someone else is in a better position to do a controlled experiment right now... hint hint
simba
Sleeping Dragon
The SunPulse is a Copies of good lamps LOL>.
Look real good at sunpulse lamps vs reputalbe lamps EYE, GE, Philips some others. not same qauilty. Internaly Who knows.
they dont share there SPD not even a skewed or fake one.
whats the lumen maintanance on there MHP lamps no more than 70% thats fact as its MHP.
as far as the freqeuncy MHP and CMH HID lamps DONT LIKE High HZ..
They both say the same thing.High hz ratles lamp apart.
Why are most of the horti E ballast High Hz cause its easier to make design but not good for lamp.
sunpulse lamps are supposedly made for high freq but what freq range.
but you can only spec for small window and the horti eballasts go from 200hz-44Khz
so what eballast are they speced for one would be perfect match other would rattle again..
Higher the freq the more it will rattle the lamp apart..Eye even confirms this..
think of it this way CB's Hams you have to tune the antenna to the freq of output or range its same thing with lamps.. but both need to match..
a good e ballast will not Hot restrike if the power outs for a minute it allows for proper cool down before restriking not horti ballasts..
Eye did a report found here
www.eyehortilux.com/EYELU600.pdf
GE says.
3.2 Electronic Ballasts
Electronic Ballasts use solid-state electronic components to start and operate the ballasts.
Electronic ballasts often use IC chips and feedback to implement better controls, and safety
features into ballasts. Electronic ballasts typically operate much more efficiently than similar
Electromagnetic Ballasts. A few other benefits are small size, lightweight, improved lumen
maintenance, fault mode protection and better power regulation, which results in better color
consistency.
3.2.1 Low Frequency Lamp Operation
GE analysis of internal and competitive HID lamps suggests that the most compatible driving
waveform for an electronic ballast is a Low Frequency Square Wave (L.F.S.W.) with low higher order
GE2012-5024 Rev 1
Page 11
harmonic content. L.F.S.W. has been long established as a dependable method of ballasting low
Wattage HID lamps with significant industry standards support.
Analysis of lamp data has shown that there are limited operating bands between 1 kHz to 200 kHz
in which an electronic ballast could operate a lamp wattage family without causing unacceptable
arc instability due to Acoustic Resonance. Trend analysis of the A.R. maps show that this range
extends well beyond 200 kHz. When the A.R. structure maps are overlaid there is no consistent
frequency band, which can be identified as a stable location for ballast operation. There are large
variations in the A.R. structure maps between multiple lamp vendors and from lamp type to lamp
type or burn position. A.R. may cause visual annoyance, lamp cycling, shorten lamp life, and in
extreme cases result in arc tube rupture.
Specific matched lamp – ballast high frequency systems can be stable, however they limit the
extent that the individual members can be modified for future improvements. Additionally, there is
no data on the long-term stability of the A.R. maps due to aging of the lamp. Future re-lamping may
also create an unstable system due to changes in lamp arc tube geometry or manufacture.
Lamp performance points to be considered:
Data on Electronic ballast technology has shown that it can greatly improve the lumen
maintenance of HID lamps over traditional EM reactor or CWA ballast systems. However, no data
are available to support improved lamp performance on High Frequency vs. Low Frequency Square
Wave driving waveforms
GE2012-5024 Rev 1
Page 12
Conclusions:
GE recommends operation of its high wattage CMH® and PulseArc® QMH HID lamps on electronic
ballasts that use a Low Frequency Square Wave output such as the UltraMax® HID ballast, GE-MH-
250-400-MAX-208-207 or similar for optimal lamp performance.
3.2.2 High Frequency
GE does not make high frequency HID ballasts due to reasons described in the Low Frequency
Lamp Operation section above. However, high frequency operation is applicable for matched lamp
ballast systems. Caution must be taken when designing these systems for an application to make
sure that the ballast and lamp are compatible to avoid premature lamp failure and safe operation.
Look real good at sunpulse lamps vs reputalbe lamps EYE, GE, Philips some others. not same qauilty. Internaly Who knows.
they dont share there SPD not even a skewed or fake one.
whats the lumen maintanance on there MHP lamps no more than 70% thats fact as its MHP.
as far as the freqeuncy MHP and CMH HID lamps DONT LIKE High HZ..
They both say the same thing.High hz ratles lamp apart.
Why are most of the horti E ballast High Hz cause its easier to make design but not good for lamp.
sunpulse lamps are supposedly made for high freq but what freq range.
but you can only spec for small window and the horti eballasts go from 200hz-44Khz
so what eballast are they speced for one would be perfect match other would rattle again..
Higher the freq the more it will rattle the lamp apart..Eye even confirms this..
think of it this way CB's Hams you have to tune the antenna to the freq of output or range its same thing with lamps.. but both need to match..
a good e ballast will not Hot restrike if the power outs for a minute it allows for proper cool down before restriking not horti ballasts..
Eye did a report found here
www.eyehortilux.com/EYELU600.pdf
GE says.
3.2 Electronic Ballasts
Electronic Ballasts use solid-state electronic components to start and operate the ballasts.
Electronic ballasts often use IC chips and feedback to implement better controls, and safety
features into ballasts. Electronic ballasts typically operate much more efficiently than similar
Electromagnetic Ballasts. A few other benefits are small size, lightweight, improved lumen
maintenance, fault mode protection and better power regulation, which results in better color
consistency.
3.2.1 Low Frequency Lamp Operation
GE analysis of internal and competitive HID lamps suggests that the most compatible driving
waveform for an electronic ballast is a Low Frequency Square Wave (L.F.S.W.) with low higher order
GE2012-5024 Rev 1
Page 11
harmonic content. L.F.S.W. has been long established as a dependable method of ballasting low
Wattage HID lamps with significant industry standards support.
Analysis of lamp data has shown that there are limited operating bands between 1 kHz to 200 kHz
in which an electronic ballast could operate a lamp wattage family without causing unacceptable
arc instability due to Acoustic Resonance. Trend analysis of the A.R. maps show that this range
extends well beyond 200 kHz. When the A.R. structure maps are overlaid there is no consistent
frequency band, which can be identified as a stable location for ballast operation. There are large
variations in the A.R. structure maps between multiple lamp vendors and from lamp type to lamp
type or burn position. A.R. may cause visual annoyance, lamp cycling, shorten lamp life, and in
extreme cases result in arc tube rupture.
Specific matched lamp – ballast high frequency systems can be stable, however they limit the
extent that the individual members can be modified for future improvements. Additionally, there is
no data on the long-term stability of the A.R. maps due to aging of the lamp. Future re-lamping may
also create an unstable system due to changes in lamp arc tube geometry or manufacture.
Lamp performance points to be considered:
Data on Electronic ballast technology has shown that it can greatly improve the lumen
maintenance of HID lamps over traditional EM reactor or CWA ballast systems. However, no data
are available to support improved lamp performance on High Frequency vs. Low Frequency Square
Wave driving waveforms
GE2012-5024 Rev 1
Page 12
Conclusions:
GE recommends operation of its high wattage CMH® and PulseArc® QMH HID lamps on electronic
ballasts that use a Low Frequency Square Wave output such as the UltraMax® HID ballast, GE-MH-
250-400-MAX-208-207 or similar for optimal lamp performance.
3.2.2 High Frequency
GE does not make high frequency HID ballasts due to reasons described in the Low Frequency
Lamp Operation section above. However, high frequency operation is applicable for matched lamp
ballast systems. Caution must be taken when designing these systems for an application to make
sure that the ballast and lamp are compatible to avoid premature lamp failure and safe operation.
Last edited:
ItsAllOver
Devil's Advocate
Wow simba I'm not even sure what you're saying up there, but I guess we'll see. I hope my lamp doesn't rattle apart.
I don't believe, based on looking at the lamps, that you can really tell much about the quality, but I'll say that the SunPulse doesn't look like bad quality manufacturing...
I tried mine out because it seems like not so many people have given them a shot yet, and that there is a lot of ignorance of their performance. Actually, total ignorance of their performance. I haven't had anyone tell me they've run one of these bulbs thru a whole flower cycle, so I'm going to, and we'll see what happens.
Hopefully not a ruptured arc tube, etc!
Peace
I don't believe, based on looking at the lamps, that you can really tell much about the quality, but I'll say that the SunPulse doesn't look like bad quality manufacturing...
I tried mine out because it seems like not so many people have given them a shot yet, and that there is a lot of ignorance of their performance. Actually, total ignorance of their performance. I haven't had anyone tell me they've run one of these bulbs thru a whole flower cycle, so I'm going to, and we'll see what happens.
Hopefully not a ruptured arc tube, etc!
Peace
simba
Sleeping Dragon
ya i guess after seeing so many lamps from all Mfrs and seeing which ones crap out or just fall apart i can spot a crappy weld, other probs..just by looking over.
but as a consumer you can tell after seeing a few lamps.
I have seen welds on the arc tube electrode to the lamp itself that failed during shipping (thats cheap crap)
read what eye says they confirm the Eballasts at High Hz will crap out lamp.
i edited post above yours so reread.. covers a bit on high hz again regarding lamps made for E ballasts .. ya but wich one there's 5+ Hz versions in the horti world no way it can match all them..
the main reason these co's are touting full spd MHP lamps is cause the CMH is HARD to MFR and MHP is so much cheaper in fact MHP is cheaper to make than HPS (the machines etc in actual mfr process)
HPS needs glues and special equipment unlike mh quartz its a ball that they crush/seal the ends while molten hot..
you could make a MHP lamp in your house a HPS/cmh forget it.
mhp still has lower lumen maint than CMH...(cmh is the future just not profitable so they go with what makes money..not whats truly good..
(not touting cmh though i do.. just using as example for this)
D
deepforest
i can attest that my digi ballasts dont like horti eyes. i get color shifts and a higher rate of total bulb failure.. nothing you can do about it, they will just say the colour shift doesnt mean anything b/c the human eye cant percieve the plants light spectrum but i have my doubts when one horti bulb burns orange / red, and the one next to it in an identical ballast is bluish / purple. will never use horti on eballast again.
ItsAllOver
Devil's Advocate
Oh I follow now about e-ballasts making lamps crap out. That's actually what I was told about these bulbs first off was that they were made to run at high hz to work with the e-ballasts, that's why I bought it.
Right now, it's looking like I'm not going to flower with it anymore, because I'm switching to a loaned 1000w system. However, I talked to the guy at my hydro shop today and he said that there are at least 3 of his customers doing controlled experiments with these bulbs against Horti EYE and others. At least one of the experiments will be using the 10k lamp for the last week of flowering, so we shall just see. He said that preliminary findings suggest more even maturation of the glands, meaning they turn cloudy then amber all at once (or close anyway) instead of some clear, some cloudy, some amber, some past mature.
So that, I would say, is a benefit that is known already.
I'm going to be keeping up with him about the results of the experiments. I'll post here when the time comes.
Peace
Right now, it's looking like I'm not going to flower with it anymore, because I'm switching to a loaned 1000w system. However, I talked to the guy at my hydro shop today and he said that there are at least 3 of his customers doing controlled experiments with these bulbs against Horti EYE and others. At least one of the experiments will be using the 10k lamp for the last week of flowering, so we shall just see. He said that preliminary findings suggest more even maturation of the glands, meaning they turn cloudy then amber all at once (or close anyway) instead of some clear, some cloudy, some amber, some past mature.
So that, I would say, is a benefit that is known already.
I'm going to be keeping up with him about the results of the experiments. I'll post here when the time comes.
Peace
here is a link with info on 2 ballasts made by sunlight supply to fire pulse start MH lamps, the sunlight supply blue wave 1 & 2. the blue wave 2 runs 2 pulse start bulbs on one ballast. nothing new one ballast running 2 lights. but its the first I have seen that runs 2 lights on a regular power outlet (not 220)
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aqua/products.aspx?request=AQUA_BW2&title=Ballasts&type=product
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aqua/products.aspx?request=AQUA_BW2&title=Ballasts&type=product
ItsAllOver
Devil's Advocate
Cool!
UltraSupersonic
New member
So far as I know, these bulbs appear slightly dimmer, but produce more usable light. Lumens (aka brightness) Is a human measurement of light, so I'd agree with you deepforest.
I will be getting a 1000w 3k shortly for a full grow, but if I've got the cash i will pick up the 10k for my final week, as I planned on using UV anyway. I'd also like a 6.4k for veg, but then you might as well get the 4k too
lol
I'll be using it in a Lumatek ballast. if I receive a superlumen version, I won't be dimming/overdriving the bulb (voids the bulbs 2, yeah 2, year warranty)
peace, i'll hopefully report back in 2 weeks to a month!
I will be getting a 1000w 3k shortly for a full grow, but if I've got the cash i will pick up the 10k for my final week, as I planned on using UV anyway. I'd also like a 6.4k for veg, but then you might as well get the 4k too
lolI'll be using it in a Lumatek ballast. if I receive a superlumen version, I won't be dimming/overdriving the bulb (voids the bulbs 2, yeah 2, year warranty)
peace, i'll hopefully report back in 2 weeks to a month!
ItsAllOver
Devil's Advocate
Report back UltraSupersonic!
one Q: Go to the SunPulse website for info on compatible ballasts
one Q: Go to the SunPulse website for info on compatible ballasts
P
PkRipper
last year i seen a single two month bloom cycle using a 600w 3k with a galaxy digital ballast running on 120v.
the hood was a havest master 6in air cooled .
the area was a 4x4 black table with the room the same size 4x4 ft. ... 7 feet tall
Its seems the bulb is not as brite as any hps but it burns turquise in color and does stay cooler.
maybe vert would be a better use where heat is an issue.
maybe no glass in the hood would have produced better .
either way i went back to hps.
latley because i have several of the 3 k bulb laying around i would like to combine hps and the sunpulse side by side to compair trich production.
one advantage with the sunpluse was a cut in stretch so this tells me one of two things......less heat or more usable light is being generated.
now a 1000w may be alot better ?
sumday i may get a uv 10k bulb just to try it........
the hood was a havest master 6in air cooled .
the area was a 4x4 black table with the room the same size 4x4 ft. ... 7 feet tall
Its seems the bulb is not as brite as any hps but it burns turquise in color and does stay cooler.
maybe vert would be a better use where heat is an issue.
maybe no glass in the hood would have produced better .
either way i went back to hps.
latley because i have several of the 3 k bulb laying around i would like to combine hps and the sunpulse side by side to compair trich production.
one advantage with the sunpluse was a cut in stretch so this tells me one of two things......less heat or more usable light is being generated.
now a 1000w may be alot better ?
sumday i may get a uv 10k bulb just to try it........
the less stretch is caused by the blue light, plants stretch to get more light and blue light is the signal color
on the other hand less heat means more light if theres the same energy input, any energy consumpted not generating light is converted to heat but those lamps are for sure nto as efficient as an hps or cmh - we talk about outdated technology here :|
ItsAllOver
Devil's Advocate
I hear you. I think you should look into whether or not there is another manufacturer making the ballast and stamping HIDHUT on them to sell for that company... I'm pretty sure that's what's going on here..
Here's a link to their Certified Ballasts page.
And asde what do you mean by outdated tech? I thought the PSMH bulbs were totally new. Hit me up with a link or other info! Thanks!
Later peeps
UltraSupersonic
New member
Hello all-
Like I said I'll be doing a 1k grow with a 3k bulb... And doing a journal, however it will be on another forum... What is the policy regarding linking to that site? If its cool, i'd gladly share so everyone can follow the updates, as I don't normally post anywhere else.
Thanks, will check back!
Like I said I'll be doing a 1k grow with a 3k bulb... And doing a journal, however it will be on another forum... What is the policy regarding linking to that site? If its cool, i'd gladly share so everyone can follow the updates, as I don't normally post anywhere else.
Thanks, will check back!
