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Structures of Fear, Anger, and Desire!

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
I'm not swept up in the illusion of purpose or choices. That's your human condition speaking...your enslaved mind.

That's my opinion of course. I'm not emotionally invested.

I don't see the human race as a grand experiment. I see it as an unfree...sick...and dying out species. Its expansion will be its downfall

Time to garden

I respect your perspective. Obviously you arrived at this conclusion based on observation in your own experiences. As you wrote, and I wrote, and many others have written, we perceive our reality not as it is, but through the filter of our beliefs and assumptions.

The mind is a tool, a survival mechanism. The fact that we have confused the self-mind with who we are, or allowed it to enslave us, is a choice we have made, and we are the only ones responsible for making this choice.

What you, me, and every other human being perceives is not "what is" but instead "what appears to be."

"What appears to be" is how we interpret whatever information that our limited sensors collect from "what is."

Since we, as observers, are unaware of what does not make it through the filters of our limited perceptions, we make an erroneous assumption that "what appears to be" is actually All That Is.

And, even though we may call what we believe and assume, opinions and theories, in reality, and as a rule we think of them as facts. There are exceptions of course, but they are rare.

If you observe your thinking from the side, you will see that your opinion of what you wrote above is on the level of a serious conviction, and when you are not thinking about it, you actually perceive these beliefs as simply how it is (facts).

Maybe, I'm mistaken, of course, I can't get in your mind and contemplate what you perceive and how you interpret it, only you can. But, taking into account that our self-mind is a survival tool, it takes our beliefs and assumptions to be facts of life.

We see our reality through our beliefs and assumptions, and this makes it very difficult to actually look at them from the side.

But, if this is done, we can observe that we are all living in a fantasy and delusion, a story where we are the main character that has a past, and a projected future, and our main objective is that this "self" not only persists, but survives at almost any cost.

In this type of experience, in survival, love does seem funny.

It's interpreted and used as a way to manipulate those around you in order to accomplish the primary objective of self-survival.

But, from my perspective, we are NOT surviving, this is a confusion that comes from the culture where we grew up. We are actually evolving in a simulated digital reality, where we are like kids in a kindergarden, that were put there so that we can learn, and take our first step toward adulthood.

This first step is going to elementary school, into 1st grade.

Obviously kids in kindergarden live in fantasies and delusions, and this is an exact reflection of our behavior.

We age, but our biggest problem as a species, is that we don't want to take that first step, we want to remain in kindergarden forever, and we do everything to accomplish this.

This is what you are observing in the larger reality....imvho

a bunch of kindergarden kids, that simply look like adults, but in reality, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, they are still on the level of 5 year olds.

:tiphat:
 
I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with a lot of what is being expressed here...but I have some niggles regarding all this ''know thyself''-stuff.

I used to be way into philosophy,particularly of the eastern kind. Read all kinds of stuff. Descartes,tibetan book of the dead,huxley,wilbur,leary,zen stuff,plato,bhagavad ghita.... Ate it up.Thought of things in terms of karma, reconciling self-not self,tried being compassionate and loving in everything I did/thought/said.Meditated. Said mantras. The works.

I may have been too young,wavering in my practice,my focus might have been wrong or I was just plain weak. I'm still glad I have that stuff in my baggage,from a purely intellectual point of view. But in the end,none of it did me any good in navigating ''the real world''.It didn't enable me to function better. It didn't make adversity hurt less or seem less important. If anything it made me conflicted,naive,soft,an easy target. I was out of touch and all the lofty stuff helped me stay that way for much longer then I should have.

Now maybe that was my ''ego'' acting up or whatever,but I judge myself and others by what we achieve,not what we say or think. Talk is cheap,words are symbols,the map is not the territory.I'm seemingly a much less ''mellow'' individual these days.
Yeah,I oscillate. But embracing the waveform,riding it. Makes much more sense to me then fighting the current,or trying to escape it.Hell,gautama himself reccomended immersion over lofty intellectual distance.

The ego is a mechanism,true. But a necessary one,in my view. Sure,temper it. Don't always listen to it. Don't serve it. But don't delude yourself into thinking you can outsmart a system that has been three or four billion years in the making.The human condition is what it is. Trying to change the condition with the very mechanisms that cause them just seems overly idealistic and more then a little bit deluded to me... Words,labels,techniques. If that isn't an ego-driven response,I don't know what is....

To paraphrase a certain mr. rollins:
Loving everybody....get real. There are some sick,twisted, predatory motherfuckers out there. And we need to stand them up and stare them down if we're ever gonna get the global devo-ramones-pfunk blockparty going.:D
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
I understand that love is a word that has a trillion interpretations.

But, I don't see a problem if we define it as mutually beneficial interaction and co-operation with other sentient beings.

If you meet a person in your experience that you can't interact and cooperate in a way that is mutually beneficial, then move on....plenty of others, in this multi-billion-player virtual reality game.

It is not about outsmarting the ego, because we can't, it has the intellect on its side :)

Our purpose is to make choices in the moment, and to move from a fear-based toward a love-based intent. The free will choices that we are making are not based on logic, they are based on our intent, which is the true motivation behind our choices.

This intent (motivation) reflects the quality of our consciousness.

This is all we are doing here on this thrid rock from the sun. Evolving our individuated consciousness. To me this is crystal-clear, and I clearly understand that this is something that seems absurd and might be hard to grasp for most people.

But, this is how it has to be. If everyone thought this was a game, or a simulated digital reality trainer for consciousness evolution, many folks would stop what they're doing and would sit on their ass. Wait, many are doing that anyway, so I guess even ego, the survival mechanism doesn't help, because our entropy is so freakin high that the only thing we dream about is hiding from the larger reality in a comfortable, warm bubble, that is built from fantasies and delusions.

The ego is the architect, and our intellect is the builder.

Together this wonder team creates our own personal reality, that we believe and assume is real as it gets, and then it gets busy pushing us toward meeting face-to-face with all our hidden fears.

We can run, but we can't hide from our fears for too long.

Dumb rats like us, eventually get trapped by the ego, and get zapped.

virtual kindergarden for baby rats is working 24/7/365, and this is why the sun shines on some part of the planet all the time, so this experiment keeps going without ever stopping

you know that consciousness and evolution don't sleep, they're digital, and don't need the 6 hours of sleep like us. ;)
 

sso

Active member
Veteran
one point.

while you might experience the void, nothingness, you are still that which views it.

if you were actually nothing.

you would not exist.

and here is the thing, you cant view yourself, experience yourself.

except through other beings, people.

doesnt that remind you of some philosophies you have read, about what,

we actually are?
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
one point.

while you might experience the void, nothingness, you are still that which views it.

if you were actually nothing.

you would not exist.

and here is the thing, you cant view yourself, experience yourself.

except through other beings, people.

doesnt that remind you of some philosophies you have read, about what,

we actually are?

true, we are consciousness, and we always exist, even when we are nothing...we are still consciousness...nothingness is simply our nature...but when we're nothingness itself, there is no self-mind or perceptions that this mind is always perceiving through our senses...and interpreting through our beliefs and assumptions

btw...the self mind is attached to the beliefs and assumptions, it also believes that this is what we are, and it perceives everything in relation to itself

it is a closed system, and the self-mind is like a pickle in a jar, that is swimming in its own juices ;)
 
T

THE PABLOS

Well...y'all do as you see fit for yourselves. As long as it is not preventing other life forms from existing...or you are not endangering others...fine. There is no sense in going over and over beliefs...and theories...as none of this really matters or can be assessed by all beings.

Myself...I'm back to basics. I look after the temple...I don't really sit and ponder much on stuff that includes the whole of evolution or what life means. I already understand that my perception is one that I...like everyone else...has inherited.

I take care of body 1st....because a healthy body leads to form...leads to a healthy soul...a silent state. It leads to a healthier planet...and overall existence.

Have no interest in looking out for the human condition...as it doesn't need to be looked out for. I don't believe in a collective vision as that is just another form of enslavement. As we all live in our own little worlds...I don't ever envision a brotherhood of man.

You can sit on your ass and ponder why things happen...or you can get off your ass and do. All the words in the world will not convince a single soul of anything. Eventually you must rise up...take action..and don't deny the animal in you. Maybe then...the higher being will show itself. Let the world be the world (you have no choice anyway)........peace out
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
Well...y'all do as you see fit for yourselves. As long as it is not preventing other life forms from existing...or you are not endangering others...fine. There is no sense in going over and over beliefs...and theories...as none of this really matters or can be assessed by all beings.

Myself...I'm back to basics. I look after the temple...I don't really sit and ponder much on stuff that includes the whole of evolution or what life means. I already understand that my perception is one that I...like everyone else...has inherited.

I take care of body 1st....because a healthy body leads to form...leads to a healthy soul...a silent state. It leads to a healthier planet...and overall existence.

Have no interest in looking out for the human condition...as it doesn't need to be looked out for. I don't believe in a collective vision as that is just another form of enslavement. As we all live in our own little worlds...I don't ever envision a brotherhood of man.

You can sit on your ass and ponder why things happen...or you can get off your ass and do. All the words in the world will not convince a single soul of anything. Eventually you must rise up...take action..and don't deny the animal in you. Maybe then...the higher being will show itself. Let the world be the world (you have no choice anyway)........peace out

well said...i got nothing to add...getting off ass is what it's all about :)
 

sso

Active member
Veteran
oh im on a bed, roman style watching silent hill on my computer, later ill make some music.


i prefer using sex as a sport. :) (i did all the running around hills and mountains,as a child, when i could not fuck. :))

as long as the scenery is pleasant and im comfortable, hill , house or a mountain does not matter much to me. :)
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
lol...that's some funny shit sso

here in my broke-ass country it is snowing non-stop, and I'm truly enjoying the view from outside my window on the fourth floor

inside nice and warm, my dogs and cat are chilling

and I think I'll watch a little ID on Discovery...love them stories where folks are killing each other, and trying to cover it all up...they probably convince themselves that it was a love-based choice and mutually beneficial ;)
 
I find your thoughts interesting. But the thing that made me recoil from these trains of thought is still foremost in my mind. What I perceive as a sort of ''glibness''. We can't think/feel/philosophize our way out of the fundamentals.

I don't buy the love/fear binary system. I don't know how to react ''love-based'' to the barrel of a loaded gun or a clenched fist heading my way. Do you?

Maybe we're evolving towards something. Enlightenment? Inevitable doom? Who knows. Whatever. Pondering it is sometimes fun and interesting. But in the end it's all vanity/procrastination,to me at least. I don't really care if my essence/consciousness/soul goes on and to what end. I won't be there,and ''I'' is who I have to be.

I try not to look for meaning or significance beyond the obvious: How does it make me feel? What kind of feedback do I get from my internal and external environment? Is this course of action sustainable and productive for the individual organism.
This line of action has worked out much better then trying to ''understand'' ever did. Guess that makes me a Darwinist. But in the end....we're all just flesh. There is nothing else. True or not...it works.

If metaphysics work for you. More power to ya.
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
I find your thoughts interesting. But the thing that made me recoil from these trains of thought is still foremost in my mind. What I perceive as a sort of ''glibness''. We can't think/feel/philosophize our way out of the fundamentals.

what exactly do you mean by fundamentals?

I don't buy the love/fear binary system. I don't know how to react ''love-based'' to the barrel of a loaded gun or a clenched fist heading my way. Do you?

yeah, I get out the way :biggrin:

if you don't find yourself making fear-based choices or love-based choices in your life, then that is your experience

I write about my experience, for anyone else except me, it is hearsay, nothing more, nothing less

Action plus contemplation is what I recommend, tasting the pudding, and then contemplating on how good of a result you produced while preparing it, and next time trying to improve the taste or whatever else is important to you...ie...whatever you were actually aiming for in your experiments

sort of like breeding a perfect strain for yourself...you want to evolve it and make it be the best it can be right?

Maybe we're evolving towards something. Enlightenment? Inevitable doom? Who knows. Whatever. Pondering it is sometimes fun and interesting. But in the end it's all vanity/procrastination,to me at least. I don't really care if my essence/consciousness/soul goes on and to what end. I won't be there,and ''I'' is who I have to be.

This I, what you call your "self" what is this in your interpretation? Your body, your story of yourself that is constantly running in your mind based on past memories and future projections. What other attachments and identifications are you made up of?

I try not to look for meaning or significance beyond the obvious: How does it make me feel? What kind of feedback do I get from my internal and external environment? Is this course of action sustainable and productive for the individual organism.
This line of action has worked out much better then trying to ''understand'' ever did. Guess that makes me a Darwinist.

maybe you didn't understand, and gave up before experiencing insight?

But in the end....we're all just flesh. There is nothing else. True or not...it works.

are you sure that this is 100% "absolutely" true? I'm not so sure. This is why i wrote a little explanation about how our sense work below, just to point out that what we perceive is NOT what's actually there.

...in fact, in many ways what we perceive is most likely a hallucination...like massive LSD 24/7/365 until we die :)

If metaphysics work for you. More power to ya.

I simply like talking about the true nature of Being, Consciousness, and The Larger Reality beyond our limited perceptions. I would even go as far as saying I love it. So, obviously I have no problem spending my time on it.


==========================

IN-DIRECT PERCEPTION:

All appearances of being real are derived from the interpreted perceptions that constitute our experience. All are dependent upon the limitations of the sensing apparatus and the limitations of the interpretation that we give to the data that our senses collect.

The filters placed between us and the un-experienceable reality lie beyond our perception in the non-physical, and they are what make our perceptions limited and in-direct. I have a thread about this in my profile, if this ever interest you.

Here is an example how our senses work.

We think we see an object, but what we actually perceive is a portion of the light energy that has interected with the object, not the object itself.

Next, we must interpret this received pattern of light data.

What we see is a function of the object, the attributes of the light that impinged on it, how that particular light interacted with that particular object, how the sensor (eye, optic nerve) interacted with the light coming coming from the object, how we generated and interpreted the resulting optic nerve data, and finally how we integrate this interpreted information with the rest of our experience and belief.

There are no less than five processes occuring between the object itself and our sense of reality of that object. Each process has its limitations, dependencies, random components, variations, and error sources.

Our reality is the result of these imperfect processes working and interacting together. All our other senses go through similarly complex processes. This is only the tip of the iceberg...so i would think twice about our reality being physical. Looks more like our reality is virtual and digital, at least that is my perspective, based on observing how our perceptions and sense apparatus works.
 

sso

Active member
Veteran
i usually prefer comedies. :)

but yeah, cold as shit in iceland. me and the cat snuggling here.



spiral of eyes,

well personally, if a fist is headed towards my face, i duck and if a gun is pointed at me, ill run (unless i have a gun.)


see, i love myself, anyone willing to hurt me, i do not care so much about.

me getting hurt, helps nothing, of course ill not hurt unless as a last resort.

but if it came down to it, id rather have me in the world, than some asshole who likes to hurt people.

in my philosophy, If you like to hurt, Then you like to get hurt.


heck, even jesus, said nothing about what to do after you´ve taken that first hit on the cheek. :)

i usually play it like this, if you get me mad, its your own damn fault. and it takes alot to get me mad, so if you do, you deserve every damn bit of it.

metaphysics working? its an idea, philosophy, hobby.

i still shit in a toilet like everyone else.

and the glibness, there might be alterior reasons for the glibness than usual.

after all, i really dont give a damn what you think, as long as you are nice.

and i aint peddling shit.
 
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