Strange Slime buildup on roots

[sarek]

Hey I have been trying to wrap my head around this thread for a while. Its complex, both the topic and this thread. Maybe some of this has been discussed previously. A couple questions/feedback.

It seems like most people in this thread are doing DWC/biobuckets hydroton where roots dangle in water? Is seems this is a bigger problem in this kinda culture? Or is this a similar problem in all types of culture( ebb nflow, drip, rockwool)

I guess you call it abrown slime algae or cyanobacteria. Why not Pythium?

 

[richyrich]

Pythium is root rot. This brown slime algae is a completely different animal. It is ravaging once you get it. The first distinction is that root rot does not cause a slime like brown slime algae. IME, I find root rot minor to a brown slime algae infestation.

 

[richyrich]

One bit of advice for folks running sealed rooms. If you have a charcoal filter running to scrub your air, I would get one of those HEPA filters in conjunction with that to catch spores, etc. from the room. They are the filters that you can attach to your inline fan and they look like car performance air filters.

 

[sarek]

I DID IT! I Read the whole thing. 8 hours! Ouch, it hurts. But its a important topic and worth it.

I have some initial thoughts to share, hope I can remember everything I thought as I went along.

I too run aquariums, both fresh and saltwater. I think salt is not as relevant here cos its a radically different system than fresh. The bioload of fish for example is 10 fold. In salt, the goal (for reefs) is as little fertilizers as possible. Beneficials are important tho, thats the same. Freshwater on the other hand can handle nutrients. In salt one can use a refugium which is a separate area with bright lights and plants to suck out nutrients. Even still its difficult. Freshwater has a whole broad categories called planted aquariums or dutch aquariums with tons of plants.

Early on in my freshwater thing I found a fish store that had a different philosophy. Most store sold big pumps and all sorts of filtration, it was expensive and complex. This is how 90% of freshwater is done still I think. This guy showed me a way that was simplicity itself. Lots of plants, sand, slow water, fish, good cheap light. Cheap, easy. Of course he made his money selling GREAT fish and plants whereas most pet shops have generic cheap fish and make money selling pumps. And of course water chemistry is crazy cos of the big pumps so the fish die. Ahhhhh capitalism.

His concept is to set up an ecosystem, a natural system that makes use of nature. The light grows the plants which suck out the fish waste. Real idiotproof. Soooo easy. Small water changes once in a while.

I have noticed when some algae or another gets too strong you just make a minor change and it usually evolves the problem away. Like turn off a couple lights, or change direction of pump, or some other minimal change.

Another thought is that when you start out a aquarium they are brutal, both fresh and salt go thru cycles, I forgot the exact system but it involves Nitrogen especially, the different bacteria exist in monocultures till the nutes change from one to another - Nh4 to n03 to n02 or whatever it is. Takes a few weeks, but even then it takes months for the bacteris to really get established.

Its amazing in a freash tank the junk that appears out of nowhere that is not there when you do a 20% change. When ya start a big tank all sorts of junk show up, I recall even brown diatoms commonly show up. But this does not happen when doing additions.

I was thinking recently how much the bacterias change in first few weeks of a tank and how this is usually how often we run a resevoir for! We grow plants during the same time that fish would die and the bacteria are cycling. Now even for such a big industry as freshwater aquriums it is a new industry. 20 years ago everybody used underbed filters which sucked water down thru gravel. This was actually bad and nobody does that anymore. They were doing bioballs but not so much any more, forgot the reason why tho. Mybe its the substrate had too much air moving thru and bacteria builyt up then died leaving a big organic load to decompose. Maybe better to have a little bacteria in a thin film on leaves, rocks wood in aquarium. You certainly can spend $300 on bioball filter tho! somebody will sell ya one instead of a couple plants for $10. My memory is not great on specifics here but I think this seems similar to what you are finding.

I have a theory on brown slime mold aka cyanobacter? In a stable system when you do a water change the plants act as bacteria resevoirs. So even tho you change 9(5% of water there is alot of bacteria alive in the system.

Beneficals are not just one thing, they are very complex. For example there are nitrification cycle bacteria, some of which might need to reproduce early (hours -2 days) in the Nitrogen cycle, others come in later (days?). Then there are other beneficials that are there to compete with pythium and a ton of other functions. Like after a forest fire or lave flow there are a few early growers of plants vs a mature forest with diversity.

A h202/Physan/Zone treatment is like a forest fire, it kills alot. But just like forest fires there are cool burning fast fires where just the underbrush burns and things bounce back quickly vs serious fires which incinerate all life and it takes years to come back.

I use 6 inch rockwool and the top 2 inches never is submerged. I think that this top layer acts as a bacteria farm for colonisation. If I used 4 inch cubes this might be very different.

I think hydroponics, while we discuss it generically is very complex with so many, many varibles. For example, it seems this tread is alot about DWC where roots are exposed alot and in hydroton. The bactrial populations might be very different from a ebb n flow rockwool. Since people rarely desribe nuances of their system, thats alot of stuff left off the table.

Where I live they have chloramine in the water a couple years ago. No difference from my perpective. I have rarely used beneficials, but maybe there is a population in the top of my cubes and edge of table that grow after a few days of chloramine. But its radically different using chloramine from people using RO water or similar.

We have both had clean tables and dirty tables, both have worked pretty well. Maybe the chloraimine is like adding zone to the table every two weeks.

I think 75% of the people around here barely even know what chloramine is and buy beneficials etc. But some might survive and seed their systems.

In the past I have used benes and have had mixed results. Its hard to put my finger on but I have added piches of GH powder every few months to resevoir with no bad results. But a few times I added it and I think it was detrimental. I attribute this to ????, maybe there is sucha bioload of spores that 99% die and toxify solution. Its lie if you went in your yard and poured hundreds of pounds of seeds on the ground, most would germinate but only a few would thrive and the rest might foul the soil. Maybe thats why its better to use freshly made benies so most live and the dead do not decompose acting like organic food. Bacteria are small, a pinch might be billions or trillions of spores but only 2% could live. Especially in fresh water that has not cycled.

The standard fish store reminds me of how this thread started out. It seems like it was started like a fresh petco fish tank with lots of fancy machines and ended up 2 years later like the natural ecosystem approach. Its really quite appealing to use natural system rather than fight them. This natural water system and the bacteria that live in them are at the base of all life on earth. Each time it rains and freashwater runs down creaks its like a water change. To fight it is so technologicaly determinist. To work with it so nice.

I gotta share this one, in hospitals when people take too much antibiotics it wipes out the pathogen but also all the good beneficial bacteria in the gut. Then people get diarreha. There is a bacteria called Clostridium difficile that then grows cos there is no competition. Its very serious and kills many people horrendously. One experimental way to treat it is to.......take a patients significant others feces and put it up their butt. Like a bioball I guess.

Anyways, this whole beneficial thing is promising but it is hard to duplicate. Doctors are trying to understand what normal guy flora re, and while soil flora is well established, hydro flora is not. We are the research team.


Ok so after all that I had a brutal pythium problem recently. We had to cull and start over. Never had sucha problem. I think we had a brual pythium or similar that morphed into herpes. So now I am motivated to learn. I think that in treating the pythium we created such barren ecosystem that brwon algae started killing stuff. The brown algae might be caused by extreme cleaning. So I think we will disinfect table then maybe bring some nute soln from a friends healthy grow over. as well as beneficials. They sell humtea at local store so I can buy freash but maybe making it would be good too.

Its 3AM I am done for now.

 

[richyrich]

Congrats Sarek. It is a longggg read. We have been at it over 2 years now I think. It is well worth it. You have great insight into this from what you have posted above. As you have stated, like I finally got my leads from, fresh water aquariums are analogous. Your post is appreciated. This is everybody's thread and I look forward to some more of your thoughts.

 

[sarek]

Ok, I found a few articles on initial freshwater aquarium cycling, even tho its been gone over, its still very important

http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/waterinfo.html

Nitrifying bacteria (Nitrospira)

* Newly discovered species of Nitrosomonas (not Nitrosomonas europaea) convert ammonia to nitrite in aquaria (10).
* Nitrospira converts nitrite to nitrate. It slower-growing than Nitrosomonas and growth is further retarded by initial high levels of ammonia. May take up to 3 weeks for Nitrospira to become established in a new tank. (6) Nitrobacter, which was thought to be the genus of nitrite-oxidizing bacteria in aquaria, are not found in aquaria. Instead, Nitrospira, which is a new phylum of bacteria, have been shown to the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria (10, Dr. Tim Hovanec, electronic mail, 12/29/03)
* are Autotrophs (get the carbon they need from carbon dioxide) (1)
* do not work as efficiently below pH 6.0; prefer a pH of about 7.8. (6)
* grow in colonies, preferably on (highly oxygenated (1, 6)) surfaces (4)
* the media on which they grow must be clean of organic debris, and the levels of DOC (dissolved organic compounds) must be low (4) In mechanical filters there may be cycling of nitrifying populations as they increase when the area is clean and decrease as the area clogs. (7)
* the oxidation and reproduction rate of the bacteria is directly tied to the water temperature. The colder the water, the slower the bacteria work (7)
* can double population every 27 to 33 hours in good conditions (1) the nitrifying bacteria are slow growing so it takes them several days to start converting appreciable amounts of ammonia to nitrite. bacteria which convert nitrite to nitrate (the nitrite-oxidizers) are even slower growing than the ammonia-oxidizers. (3)
* In a 24 hour period, a single nitrifying bacterium will double forming two bacteria. In that same time period, a single heterotrophic bacterium can reproduce to a population of 2,361,183,241,434,820,000,000 bacteria (7)
* are aerobic and need plenty of oxygen to grow. To a degree the more oxygen available to the bacteria the faster they can convert the ammonia or nitrite. The biological filter should be in an area where the water has plenty of oxygen or suspended in the air where the water can trickle over the media and mix with oxygen from the air. (1) Oxygen is of prime importance. The rate at which an individual or colony of nitrifying bacteria can oxidize ammonia is determined by the amount of oxygen which is available. (6)
* Using ammonia binder/removers: the detoxified ammonia is still available to the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria which convert it to nitrite. requires use of a salicylate-based ammonia test kit (6) Most people assume that the number of nitrifying bacteria increases in direct proportion to the amount of ammonia produced in the aquarium. Actually, in a scientific sense, this might not be the case. It is not known for certain whether continuing to add ammonia means that the population of nitrifying bacteria continually increases, or if the numbers level-off and those bacteria work more efficiently. More efficient is defined as the same number of bacteria oxidizing more ammonia in the same amount of time. (7)
* Bio Spira from Marine Labs contains Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira and Nitrospira. While it is best if refrigerated until used, recent research has shown that it has a 6 month shelf life at room temperature (Dr. Tim Hovanec, electronic mail, 12/29/03). It can not be overdosed. Repeated dosing of your aquarium with ammonia removing liquids (such as BIO-Safe, Amquel, Ammo-lock and Aqua-Safe) can inhibit the beneficial action of BIO-Spira. Ammonia removing liquids should only be used to initially treat tap water. It is normal to have a small (<2 ppm) amount of ammonia or nitrate during the first few days after set-up. These concentrations are not harmful and will quickly drop to zero with proper use of BIO-Spira. (8) Optimal conditions for Bio Spira: Water Temperature: : 60°F-87°F (15°C-31°C) pH: range between 7.0-8.5 Within 24-48 hours, the bacteria will attach to the BIO-Wheel®, gravel, or other surface in the tank and your water should be clear. Don't use antibiotics. No UV light filters or proteain skimmers for 48 hours. (9, Dr. Tim Hovanec, electronic mail, 12/29/03)

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Heterotrophic bacteria

* are responsible for the break down of organic materials, e.g. leaves, fish feces (1)
* are one of the chief producers of ammonia in an aquarium (1)
* are responsible for bacteria bloom which turns the water milky white (1)
* can double their population every 20 minutes and can grow over and smother nitrifying bacteria (1, 7)
* Nitrification produces hydrogen ions which are neutralized by the compounds which make-up alkalinity (chiefly bicarbonate). But once the alkalinity has been consumed, the hydrogen ions accumulate and the pH drops. (1)
* consume oxygen which may inhibit growth of the nitrifying bacteria (1) especially if there are large increases in organic matter in the tank (6)

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Water quality:

* Should be tested regularly and logged. (2)
* The goal should be stability as fish do not tolerate sudden changes well (2)
* Don't overcrowd tank with fish (4)
* Don't overfeed (4)
* Rinse filter weekly in dechlorinated water(4)
* Regular partial water changes (4)

According to Dr. Tim (electronic mail, 12/29/03), Freshwater indicators, with some exceptions depending on fish species, should be:
Ammonia: <0.1 ppm
Nitrite: <0.1 ppm
Nitrate: <50.0 ppm
pH: 6.0 - 9.0
Alkalinity: 0 - 3 mEq
Total Hardness: 0 - 200 ppm CaCO3
Dissolved Oxygen: >7.0 ppm
Total Dissolved Solids: 50 - 2,000 µS/cm
Chlorine: <0.01 ppm
Temperature: 72 - 86 deg F

red=Critical Water Quality Factor

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* Ammonia
o Critical factor for fish health (2)
o exists in water in two forms: the ionized (NH4+) called "ammonium", and un-ionized (NH3) called "ammonia". The overall ammonia level in the water is the sum of these two forms. Research has shown that it is the un-ionized form that is toxic. (6)
o As pH increases, a greater percentage of the total ammonia becomes the toxic un-ionized form. (6)
o is the principal excretory product of most aquarium organisms. (2)
o is also formed by heterotrophic bacteria digesting organic matter (2)
o Ammonia toxicity damages the nervous system of fish. Symptoms include: darting back and forth in the tank in uncontrollable spasms, spinning in small circles, and finally laying on the bottom before dying. (6)
o should be maintained below 0.1 mg/L (< 0.1 ppm) (total ammonia) in the aquarium. (2)
o In a new tank, ammonia increases rapidly over the first 3 to 5 days, then starts to decrease and is usually zero by day 10. (6)
* to reduce ammonia
o rinse the mechanical filter media often (2)
o minimize organic matter (from fish poop and excess feeding) (2)
o partial water changes (2)

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* Nitrite
o Critical factor for fish health (2)
o exists in two forms, nitrite and nitrous acid. At lower pH values (below 8), a greater percentage of the total nitrite exists as nitrous acid (which is the toxic fraction). at the pH values commonly found in tropical fish aquaria (6.5 to 8.0), the majority of the nitrite is in the toxic fraction. (6)
o Can be more toxic than ammonia. 3 to 5 mg/l (3-5 ppm) can kill fish in freshwater (6)
o is formed either by the oxidation of ammonia (nitrification) or the reduction of nitrate (assimilatory nitrate reduction).(2)
o should be maintained below 0.1 mg/L (< 0.1 ppm). (2)
o kills fish by impeding the circulation of oxygen from the gills to the rest of the fish (3)
o Any sudden increase in the nitrite concentration of an established aquarium is cause for immediate concern. The filter should be checked and serviced when high nitrite is detected. partial water change reduces nitrite levels. (2) In a new tank, 25% water changes every 2 or 3 days for the first three weeks (3)
o In a new tank, nitrite levels remain in the toxic range and may stay high for 3 weeks or longer. (4)
o When the nitrite level drops, the biological filter is "established." (4)

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* Nitrate
o end product of nitrification. (2)
o should be maintained below 50 mg/L (measured as NO3--N) (2)
o reduce by partial water changes and growing live plants in the aquarium. (2)


* pH
o is the measure of the hydrogen ion concentration in water (2)
o the continued addition of acid (via nitrification) causes the pH to always tend to drop. (2)
o most freshwater fish can tolerate a change of up to 3 or 4 full pH units (between pH of 5 and 9) (depending upon the time interval and the particular fish) but best not to go below 6 or above 8.4 for most freshwater fish (2, Dr. Tim Hovanec, electronic mail, 12/29/03)

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* Alkalinity (KH)
o is the buffering (acid-neutralizing) capacity of water. Buffering is the capacity of the water to accept acids without a drop in pH. (2)
o Eventually alkalinity will be depleted and the pH will drop quickly. Alkalinity must be periodically replenished with regular partial water changes (assuming the make up water has alkalinity) Common baking soda - sodium bicarbonate - will increase alkalinity. (6)

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* Total Hardness (GH)
o is the sum of the calcium and magnesium in the water. (2)
o For freshwater aquaria, total hardness is not generally a concern unless your water is at one extreme and the fish you wish prefer water at the other extreme (2) or you are medicating. Soft water (less than 50 mg/L CaCO3 will increase the toxicity of some medications so you need to use less. Read the label and follow the manufacturer's directions. (Dr. Tim Hovanec, electronic mail, 12/29/03)
o Most fish can tolerate a wide range of hardness values (2)
o to lower use ion exchange resins. (2)
o to increase add calcium and magnesium. (2)

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* Phosphorus
o is a nutrient for algae and plants. A large amount of pHosphorus in an aquarium can lead to algae blooms. (2)
o is not toxic. (2)
o partial water change, reduces phosphate, if make-up water is phosphorus-free (2)
o test kits only measure soluble reactive Phosphate (also called orthophosphate) but much phosphate is bound to organic matter and not measured by these test kits. (2)

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* Dissolved Oxygen
o is the most critical water quality characteristic (2)
o Chronic low levels of oxygen lead to stress and secondary bacterial infections. (2)
o The amount of oxygen water can hold depends mostly upon the water temperature and salinity. Higher temperature and higher salinity--less dissolved oxygen (2)
o most effective way to increase the oxygen concentration in water is to agitate the water surface. While bubbling air in the water does work, it is not as efficient as vigorous surface movement. (2)
o A fish that is suffering from lack of oxygen will usually first be at the water surface gulping for oxygen. (6)

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* Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) and Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)
o is a measure of the amount of ions dissolved in the water. (2)
o DOC is a measure of the dissolved organic carbon in the water (Dr. Tim Hovanec, electronic mail, 12/29/03)
o Over time, the TDS will increase due to increased dissolved substances from feeding, water evaporation and other processes.
o Regular partial water changes reduce TDS (2)
o High levels of DOC can inhibit nitrification and can increase the biochemical oxygen demand (BOD) which in turn reduces the amount of oxygen in the water that is available to the fish and invertebrates). (2)
o Need well-equipped water quality testing laboratory to measure DOC. (2)

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* Temperature
o is a critical factor (2)
o tropical fish 72-86 (Dr. Tim Hovanec, electronic mail, 12/29/03)
o Tropical fish do not tolerate quick temperature changes (2)

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* Turbidity
o not a critical factor (2)
o too much turbidity can coat the gills of the fish and they could suffocate. (2)
o reduce with mechanical filtration and water changes. (2)

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* Chlorine
o is a critical factor (2)
o can quickly kill fish even at very low levels. (2)
o remove prior to addition to aquarium with commercial products. (2)

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Filtration

* Mechanical
o traps particulate material (e.g. uneaten food, feces, plant material, etc) that contribute to water cloudiness (turbidity) (4)
o rinse weekly as the organic matter provides a home for heterotropic bacteria that consume oxygen and produce ammonia. (4)
o a smell like rotten eggs is an indication that the filter has been too long between cleanings and the filter has become anaerobic--hydrogen sulfide can kill fish. The entire filter must be cleaned immediately and the media changed. (6)

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* Biological
o nitrification--conversion of ammonia to nitrite, then nitrite to nitrate, by bacteria. (6)
o the most efficient types of biological filters, called wet/dry filters, take advantage of the fact that the bacteria need only intermittent contact with the ammonia-laden water. (4)
o If the biological filter becomes clogged, the nitrifying bacteria cannot get the oxygen they need and are crowded out by other types of bacteria

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* Chemical
o activated carbon (4)
o removal of dissolved substances (dissolved organic compounds DOC (5) by chemically or pHysically binding them to the filter media.
o mechanical filter on intake side of chemical filter. (4)
o need good surface area between water and chemical filter (4)
o replace when used up (water yellowish-brown or water is fishy-smelling-phenol (6)). carbon lasts about a month (4) depending on load on the tank (5)
o the best carbon is bituminous coal based carbon because it has the right mix of pore size and internal surface area such that they remove more pollutants per gram of carbon than any of the other types. (5)
o does not remove ammonia, nitrite or nitrate (5)

 

[sarek]

and yet another from same guy,

http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Article_db_folder/TheFirst30days/TheFirst30days.html

I’ll assume that you have the tank and necessary filtration system which means it contains the three basic filter components: mechanical, chemical and biological filtration. Instead, I will discuss the biological and chemical processes which will occur after setting up the tank.

When first set-up the aquarium is a clean environment but it is not sterile. The gravel, decorations, even the tap water contain bacteria that may or may become part of the consortium of bacteria which reside in your aquarium. In fact, a rather common problem in newly set-up aquaria is cloudy water for the first few days. The cloudiness looks like a whitish-gray hue in the water, much like a very weak milky solution. This situation is usually not harmful to fish but it doesn’t look good. The cause is a bloom of what are termed heterotrophic bacteria. There are many different ways to classify bacteria and one of the ways is by the source of carbon for the bacteria. If the carbon source for a bacterium is carbon dioxide then that bacterium is classified as autotrophic, if the carbon source is a complex, or organic, form of carbon then the bacteria are termed heterotrophic. Don’t let the jargon intimidate you. It just one way microbiologists classify bacteria. For instance, another way to classify bacteria is by whether or not they require oxygen.

In a newly set-up aquarium, there can be a wide range of organic materials which heterotrophic bacteria can use for growth. This includes body oils that got in the water from your hands, residues of chemicals used to make the filtration system, and dirt that is part of the gravel and decorations. So to reduce the chances of a bloom, you should rinse all the materials that will be in contact with the aquarium water with lots of tap water before putting them in or on the aquarium.

Another potential source of material that can promote a bacterial bloom are various commercial water conditioners. Normally, use of these is no problem but many times people are lazy and instead of measuring in the correct amount of the conditioner they just squirt a bunch in the tank. This ‘extra’ amount of some conditioners can become a source for the bacteria. So don’t overdose on the water conditioners.

If a bloom does occur, do a 25% water chance each day for the first 2 or 3 days and the bloom will quickly disappear. Even if you do nothing the bloom will usually disappear within a week and rarely will your fish suffer any bad consequences.

Some people mistakenly assume that the bacterial bloom is the result of the nitrifying bacteria but this is wrong. Nitrifying bacteria grow much too slowly to cause a bloom and cloud the aquarium water.
The second most common problem during start-up is high ammonia. When an aquarium is first set-up there is an insufficient number of the nitrifying bacteria to take care of the ammonia excreted by the fish. This is why it is recommended that you initially buy only a few fish. As stated earlier the nitrifying bacteria are slow growing so it takes them several days to start converting appreciable amounts of ammonia to nitrite. Research in my laboratory, for instance, shows that in a 10-gallon aquarium stocked with 10 adult-sized tiger barbs the ammonia will continue to rise for 7 days before starting to decrease. Usually it is not until 11 or 12 days after set-up that the ammonia concentration drops below 0.1 mg/L. In this same series of the tests the ammonia level reached nearly 3 mg/L. Thus one needs to be prepared to do water changes for the first two weeks of a newly set-up aquarium. To reduce the maximum amount of ammonia don’t overfeed the tank. Start with a few fish and feed only twice a day. I suggest about 5 fish per 10 gallons depending upon the size of the fish. Change about 15% of the water every 3 days for the first 2 weeks and you’ll probably have no problems.

While this may sound like a lot of work and a hassle, it is much easier than trying to train a new puppy or keep a new kitten from tearing your curtains to shreds!

The next problem that will occur is one that I believe gets little attention in the hobby but is probably responsible for more fish deaths than ammonia toxicity. This problem is high nitrite concentrations. Once the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite (called ammonia-oxidizers) start working the nitrite concentration in the water will start to increase rapidly. Unfortunately, the bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate (the nitrite-oxidizers) are even slower growing than the ammonia-oxidizers. In our research, we saw the nitrite concentration in the same newly set-up aquaria, as described above, reach concentrations of nearly 10 mg/L. Furthermore, the nitrite levels stayed high for several weeks. Usually the nitrite concentration does not drop before 0.1 mg/L until 25 to 30 days after the aquarium is first set-up.

The easiest way to determine if your aquarium has a nitrite problem is to use a nitrite test kit. Nitrite is easily measured and the results are quick. Nitrite kills fish by impeding the circulation of oxygen from the gills to the rest of the fish - basically the fish suffocate to death. The malady is called brown gill disease because the gills of the fish will be brown instead of the normal red color.

Nitrite toxicity is a real problem in newly set-up aquaria. However, the personnel at many stores will often only recommend that the new aquarium owner purchase an ammonia kit to measure and determine when ammonia has peaked and disappeared. The store clerks rarely mention nitrite and its lethal effects on fish. Thus, as a new aquarium owner you are measuring ammonia a few weeks after setting up the aquarium and getting a zero value. This means that it is ok to add some more fish - right? So additional fish are added but fish start to die and the problem (high nitrite) is often not detected. If fish are dying in your aquarium 10 to 30 days after it was set-up, the chances are very good that the reason is high nitrite not high ammonia.
The fix for high nitrite is easy - change the water. 25% every 2 or 3 days for the first three weeks or so should be enough.

Can the problems I described here be avoided? The technical answer is no, a newly set-up aquarium has to go through what is termed the break-in period or cycling where sufficient numbers of nitrifying bacteria become established. But in reality the problem can be lessened and the work load (meaning the amount and frequency of water changes) reduced if you will have patience and restrain yourself from adding too many fish to quickly to a newly set-up aquarium. Add small fish that don’t require a lot of feed. Don’t feed more than twice a day and only what the fish will immediately consume. If there is food on the tank bottom you are feeding too much - remove the uneaten feed and reduce the amount you are putting in the aquarium.
The final issue to discuss is when to clean the filter - after all it has only been 30 days, does the filter really need to be cleaned? The answer is that it never hurts to clean your aquarium filter, especially the mechanical component. Cleaning can be a simple as rinsing it under some tap water for a few seconds to get rid of the grunge trapped on it. If you have only a few fish and have not been overfeeding then a quick check of the filter and rinse of the mechanical pad is probably all that is needed.

Now you can go back to the fish store and get some more fish. Make sure to ask questions about fish compatibility - after all that small Jack Dempsey will grow fast and the guppies you have in the same tank will not be there after a few months!

Setting up a new aquarium doesn’t have to be time consuming, hard or frustrating - a little planning, patience and a few water changes will make the first 30 days do by quickly and uneventfully. Remember if in doubt - change some of the water, it won’t hurt and mostly likely will fix the problem. Get passed the first 30 days and you’ll find that an aquarium is an easy, beautiful addition to your house or office. To keep it that way, change 25% of the water once a month and clean your filter once a month. Do this and pretty soon you’ll find yourself back at the fish store checking out another tank even bigger than your first one. Enjoy!

 

[sarek]

Summarizing a few points from last two articles:

* In a 24 hour period, a single nitrifying bacterium will double forming two bacteria. In that same time period, a single heterotrophic bacterium can reproduce to a population of 2,361,183,241,434,820,000,000 bacteria (7)

* When first set-up the aquarium is a clean environment but it is not sterile. The gravel, decorations, even the tap water contain bacteria that may or may become part of the consortium of bacteria which reside in your aquarium. In fact, a rather common problem in newly set-up aquaria is cloudy water for the first few days. The cloudiness looks like a whitish-gray hue in the water, much like a very weak milky solution. This situation is usually not harmful to fish but it doesn’t look good. The cause is a bloom of what are termed heterotrophic bacteria. There are many different ways to classify bacteria and one of the ways is by the source of carbon for the bacteria. If the carbon source for a bacterium is carbon dioxide then that bacterium is classified as autotrophic, if the carbon source is a complex, or organic, form of carbon then the bacteria are termed heterotrophic. Don’t let the jargon intimidate you. It just one way microbiologists classify bacteria. For instance, another way to classify bacteria is by whether or not they require oxygen.

Thats alot of bacteria that grow in the beginning, if you do not have biological filtration which is the term I think for the teas we are speaking of then they will grow rapidly.

I think its also good to differentiate between normal inhabitants and pathogens. Pathogens are things like pythium and fusarium which are rarely needed or welcome and live INSIDE plant tissue or eat it away vs Heterotrophic bacteria which just grow when the conditions are right but do not target your plants specifically.

Both might be dealt with the same way tho, with beneficials (or UV)

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

I bought an EZ-Cloner and around day 8-10 of me using it for the first time I got the slime. I went out and immediately bought a water chiller and set it to 74. Slime was held off for a bit enough for me to read about using Earthworm castings tea and I used the tea around day 15 or so. It took roots to show on some 25-30 days!!!! Ouch...

Second use: Clean it out with bleach water etc start it up a couple of days later. This time I forgo the 400$ water chiller and add 1 cup of earthworm casting tea and this is what I see on day 7-8 with 0 sign of slime:

Reservoir temp sits from 84-89 degrees

Could not be any easier or time efficient in both care time and grow time!

 

[richyrich]

Excellent. Root explosion just like my pics. Quick rooting and high temps, awesome.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Wow! Those are some impressive roots. My cloning runs have been 2 for 2 in my bubbler since I started adding AquaShield to the water and keeping the water temps in the low 70s. Nice work. You'll barely even have to veg those plants.

 

[punkp88]

Questions about ewc tea in hydro, how much etc

Questions about ewc tea in hydro, how much etc

Hi
Thanks so for the great informative thread
I running a rdwc
and I want to experiment in a different single bucket with the teas

Im just wondering when to apply the tea after its brewed?
How much tea per gallon of water?
Should I use new water instead of nutes or can i use use with the nutes already in the bucket?

Also after using the teas should i flush out and start using fresh nutes?

Im just using gh flora series. No additives
Will these nutes and the teas clash since the nutes are chemical?

Many Thanks
P

 

[punkp88]

Hi looking more info on the bokashi juice

Hi looking more info on the bokashi juice

well this is taken directly from the their own website (physan 20)

USER SAFETY RECOMMENDATIONS

User should:

* Wash hands before eating, drinking, chewing gum, using tobacco or using the toilet.
* Remove clothing immediately if pesticide gets inside. Then wash thoroughly and put on clean clothing.
* Remove PPE immediately after handling this product. Wash the outside of gloves before removing. As soon as possible, wash thoroughly and change into clean clothing

Sounds risky just at the point of use, and no doubt some of it is going to end up in the plant. Then you have a sterile environment for slime to colonise without competition, so maybe you wont only use it once.
EPA approved. aren't they the same agency that approves chloramine in tap water. Still, its good of them to limit it to 4ppm - hah!
I really recommend bokashi composting, its only just slightly more bother than chucking food waste in the bin - and i loathe making compost teas because of the hassle!
Essentially bokashi is just pickeling your kitchen food waste, and you get an abundance of liquid run off that's full of good bacterias and fungis and fermented nutrients. There are so many other benefits... like you can have rich black compost in 6 weeks.

Hi DI try,
I was looking more info on the bokashi juice and how to use it in dwc
like some of the questions on my previous post.
Can I just apply the juice as it is or do i have to brew it with compost
Whats the process, how long does the juice take?
what foods are best to use and avoid?
Can I use the bokashi juice with soil also?

sorry for the bombardment of questions, its very interesting juice

Thanks
P

 

[elito]

im probably having the same problem with my clones that started flowering just 2 days,in veg they were fine soon as i placed then in a dwc system to 12/12 after just 2 days they dont look good at all,they were in a bubble cloner for 2 weeks in plain water just a little bit of cal amg plus,i did add rithozime hessi and gh sucultures beside the nutes,the temps are fine 18-20c and i have 6 dual air pumps and 12 stones in it,can somebody tell me whats the best next thing that can treat this infection besides physan 20 i cant get that stuff i live in europe,im gonna change the res water and clean the roots with some h2o2 and water and clean everything else with bleach,can i add some h2o2 in the fresh tap water that im gonna put in, and do these uv light work against this ,thats the only thing i can get here now

 

[D.I.trY]

hi punk, yes it is a very interesting juice. The first time u smell it you might just puke... it has a bile/puke smell but its good i promise

apply the juice fresh from the bokashi bin, as simple as that. About 1 teaspoon per litre to be safe. Don't overdo it because its extremely acidic. get urself one of those bokashi kits with a bin with bottom tap and a pack of that innoculated bran. A two bin kit is a must imo, you need one to fill up while u are fermenting the one u just filled up. You should prolly get good juice after about a week of adding food, depending on how much food waste u got of course.

All foods are good: veg, meat, fat, snotty tissues(lol) are no problem. Great with soil at same dilution. dump fermented waste in compost bin, or bury it in the garden. Google bokashi and there are some good vids on youtube etc. enjoy!

 

[punkp88]

hi punk, yes it is a very interesting juice. The first time u smell it you might just puke... it has a bile/puke smell but its good i promise

apply the juice fresh from the bokashi bin, as simple as that. About 1 teaspoon per litre to be safe. Don't overdo it because its extremely acidic. get urself one of those bokashi kits with a bin with bottom tap and a pack of that innoculated bran. A two bin kit is a must imo, you need one to fill up while u are fermenting the one u just filled up. You should prolly get good juice after about a week of adding food, depending on how much food waste u got of course.

All foods are good: veg, meat, fat, snotty tissues(lol) are no problem. Great with soil at same dilution. dump fermented waste in compost bin, or bury it in the garden. Google bokashi and there are some good vids on youtube etc. enjoy!

thanks man great info
do you know the dilution rates for the ewc tea
im gonna use that until i get my hands on the bokashi bin

 

[chytil151]

how's the battle guys......

how's the battle guys......

Hey guy's been a while since i have checked out how the battle of the slime is going and am happy to say that I have been slime free now for about a month or so now and I owe It all to this thread just wanted to thank richyrich for his yrs. of dedication along with d.i.try. , itsgrowtime,and the many others that have contributed to the battle and their knowledge that helps every1 from the most advanced grower to the newly found farmer.

I have just been using straight chem nute's no additives or swaying from my cycle just a lil bit of GH flora necter the last 3 weeks of flower along w/ Koolbloom powder, keeping my water temps. below 70 deg. F and no Plant matter or organics in the water I do notice a little bit of a froth around the roots but i think that just might be a BB colonizing. Roots are pearly white w/ just a slight tint from the FNB I use but other than that everything has been smooth sailing. merry christmas and happy new year to all you fellow growers be safe and keep it green.

 

[elito]

can anybody tell whats the best thing to do to treat this slime problem but i dont have physan 20 or any of the chemicals in my country

 

[elito]

since i dont have anything else can i use this
http://www.aquaristikshop.com/e_Produktinformationen/Sera-algovec.htm

 

[ItsGrowTime]

since i dont have anything else can i use this
http://www.aquaristikshop.com/e_Produktinformationen/Sera-algovec.htm

The off-the-shelf algae killers from pet stores and aquarium stores and the like have been shown by our experiences to be ineffective. Technically, the slime isn't really an "algae" but rather a form of bacteria so weak algae killer doesn't work.

I just did a bit of research and it appears the EU has banned Physan. Isn't that cute. Why do EU countries put up with that sort of crap? Anyway, here's the ingredients in Physan 20 (bold is what matters):

n-alkyl (60% C14, 30% C16, 5%C12, 5% C18)
dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride… 10%
n-alkyl (68% C12, 32% C14) dimethyl
ethylbenzyl ammonium chloride ……… 10%
INERT INGREDIENTS ………………………… 80%

You can look for other products, especially in swimming pool and pond stores, that have the same ingredients or at least similar? I did see a mention of a UK product called "Germex" that contains at least the first ingredient. If no luck finding a similar product you could try pure chlorine bleach at high dilution. I'd start at like 1ml/gal and work upwards. Just make sure there's nothing else in the bleach. Good luck.