Strain selection for outdoor 2012....

[Bullfrog44]

All this talk about more air to roots got me thinking about a trick I will employee this year. I was thinking of making a U shaped PVC pipe that would stick about 4" out of the soil on both sides of the plant. The bottom of the PVC will pass under the plant underground. This PVC pipe will have holes drilled and a mesh sleeve placed over the holes so dirt wont get in.

This will have two effects:

1 - It will allow more air to the roots because the inside of the PVC pipe will allow air to freely move.

2 - You can also water down these pipes to ensure an even water distribution.

I know others have tried this, I will be following in their footsteps. I can't see how it could hurt. 1.25" - 2" pipe?

 

[guest8905]

How many blue dreams do you think there are?

is nomaads that different from the others?

 

[Tom Hill]

There at least 3 different cuts of Blue Dream floating around by my count, and the one Nomaad runs is the superior on many levels imo. It is not as prone to P lockup among other things, it just goes and grows no matter the weather etc. The finished product is a bit chunkier than the others and the buds are far greasier, it's a thicker, nicer smoke imo.

 

[GoldCountryGuy]

I've done a lot of both and feel it's kind of a toss up so I lean to siding with Veg N on this issue, being as it is more sustainable - not to mention prettier

Prettier and more sustainable, sure. Seems that most growers are aiming for yields and simplicity though.

Fabric containers have their downsides too, the highly elevated oxygen levels around the edges can/does eventually limit growth out there in my experience. More of an issue, is the comparative heat of a container throughout the summer in comparison with inground plantings. Some of these issues can be dealt with/limited with mulch and burlap wraps etc but where do we stop?

I'd say that we stop with that. With proper mulching (rarely I've seen) these issues seem to be non-existent

Soil heterogeneity is an issue for fieldcrop breeders etc as it leaves room for evaluation errors during selections, but I question how much consideration we should be reserving for it in this instance.

With X amount of imported soil in a fabric container vs X amount in a mound on top of gypsum worked native soil (as Veg N is doing), I believe I'd wager fairly heavily on the mound. -T

With a excellent job mulching and high quality soil underneath the pot, I'd take that bet. Not a large bet though

All due respect, appreciate the great conversation!

 

[GoldCountryGuy]

I'd also like to note "mulching" the sides of the pot is something I do differently than the top soil. (ex) Straw on the sides thick and living mulch on top. Also starting with a lighter (color) and recycled pot, (roots pots) seems to be advantageous.

 

[plastochron]

Tom, thank you for the input on the mound vs bag issue. I must be hardheaded, though, because even hearing the input from a master like yourself has not convinced me. This year I am rocking bags right next to mounded planter box rows (unfortunately not in complete randomized block design, though), so hopefully by next winter I will conclusively know what works best at my place.
On another note, have you (or anyone else) ever heard of, seen or grown Double Dream (Blue Dream x (Blue Deam x Stardawg))?

 

[Tom Hill]

GCG,

Let's make it a dollar then, you have a bet sir ...Also don't forget to send me my cut because it was not the fruit tree industry or anybody else who turned all these guys onto breathing containers in the first place. Lol, jk

Seriously though after doing and seeing it done everywhich way but Sunday I firmly believe all the money spent on the fancy shmancy would have been more wisely invested in more soil.

Plastochron,

I have not seen the DD but I think I heard of another guy talk about that too. You're welcome and hardheaded is a valuable trait I look forward to hearing about your take on your findings. May I suggest a control? Add up all the money you're spending per plant on those two groups and invest that into dirt dumped on the ground. -T

 

[plastochron]

Tom, I will do my best to tally the $$$ spent but between a few years worth of soil, amendments, and materials the math gets a little fuzzy. I will designate a couple control reps to the dirt dumped on the ground in mounds (though I may cheat and put French drains underneath... I have had some negative experiences with red clay). From henceforth the mounds will be known as "Tom's Hills"

 

[guest8905]

interesting about the blue dream, well i hope i have the good one lol

 

[Tom Hill]

haha I'm just playing mostly but I do hope folk get the real point.

Way to often we see folk thinking this or that is a super valuable key to their success. They develop in their minds all kinds of crazy experiments and theories. This all too often leads to things like breathing PVC pipe soil apparatuses, bottles of hype at a hundred bucks a pop, microscopes and every other damn thing imaginable. When they finally do outgrow their container though it always ends the same fashion, with them scurrying around frantically trying to keep shit alive with magic teas and whatnot.

They would have done better to forget about all of the above and put down more soil, for that one thing right there is by far the best investment of all. It's like training wheels, a guaranteed buffer against all possible problems, and should be valued at the very top above all other things imo. -T

 

[plastochron]

How many yards/plant do you recommend for a mound, planterbox, or bag?

 

[Veg N Out]

Hey T...Good to read your input. Funny that now you're on the Mounds team people are listening Bless up and thanks for everything you've done for me over the years.

Plastochron - Anything over 3 yards is golden. I am sniping your experience and understanding because you are citing concerns of industries and application that does not fall in to line with Cannabis farming. It's great to do research and draw from the ag community, but ultimately we are swimming in a great unknown...Looking forward to cannabis legalization so we can really push the envelope..

Once you prepare the clay with enough Gypsum and organic matter, provide the plants with at least 3 yards there is no stopping them!! You also will not need a french drain...LoL...French drains for cannabis? And I thought my gardens were Gucci..

My mounds and fabric containers last year were the same volume FWIW. The largest yielding strain in the garden last year was Jack The Ripper @ just over 8lb cleaned nug...Was set out around 6/21...

Also I used to think straw made good mulch..However I could not be more wrong. Most straw now has such high anti fungal properties that it will not do what I want my mulch layer to do...Breed fungi! Like the layer of leaves you pull back in the forest to see mycelia running!

 

[Tom Hill]

Hey again Plastochron,

Well what I can tell you that I mostly have 2yard+ containers and holes now, and it's really difficult to accomplish 10 pound plants from those, though I do occassionally. In fact I often find myself in that scurrying around to keep shit healthy group. I'd like to double them to be honest, that would make me much more comfortable.

^^^ don't be too hung up on Veg n Out's input style, he's sometimes harsh online but always a nice guy in person. I'm very much enjoying your posts in this and many other threads as of late. Tx -T

 

[Veg N Out]

^^^ don't be too hung up on Veg n Out's input style, he's sometimes harsh online but always a nice guy in person.

Why did you have to go and out me?

 

[plastochron]

I don't much online jibber jabber personally and I'm always up for an informative argument.
Veg - re: french drains, I have experienced red clay (even tilled red clay) leading to anaerobic conditions enough times to be cautious. The cost and time it takes to till in compost or manure and gypsum to amend your clay is definitely a factor that you should not overlook for people starting from scratch. As I said earlier, I do have planter boxes on top of mounds on top of french drains on top of tilled red clay, but it totals at least 4 ft tall and is the product of a few years of inputs. Are you rocking the ripper again this year?

Tom, thanks for encouragement. I am trying my best not to kiss ass, but I have to admit I am a little in awe.

 

[Veg N Out]

I don't much online jibber jabber personally and I'm always up for an informative argument.
Veg - re: french drains, I have experienced red clay (even tilled red clay) leading to anaerobic conditions enough times to be cautious. The cost and time it takes to till in compost or manure and gypsum to amend your clay is definitely a factor that you should not overlook for people starting from scratch. As I said earlier, I do have planter boxes on top of mounds on top of french drains on top of tilled red clay, but it totals at least 4 ft tall and is the product of a few years of inputs. Are you rocking the ripper again this year?

Tom, thanks for encouragement. I am trying my best not to kiss ass, but I have to admit I am a little in awe.

No I won't be growing the JTR this year it finished practically in November and in my zone that is just crazy..Especially at my place where the cold just dumps off the mountain on to my meadow..Best to be done by Oct 14....

I'll have about 20 North 101 (9/14), 35 DOG(10/1) , 20 Snow(10/14) and the remaining 20 plants be a mix of Bomb Threat, OG, OG Twist, Face Off, and PI x Bubba Kush

Everything is going to go in to my custom soil mix. I am doing 80% greenwaste compost , 20% worm castings as my base mix, to that I'm adding 20% peat moss and 20% perlite. To this I will add a custom amendment blend and biologicals and this year I will use a few products from JH Biotech through the summer.


This will be for mounds that are a hair over 3 yards a piece.

Would love to see some pics of these sandwich stacks you're talking about. They sound very interesting

Gold Country Guy -

It's been my experience that the simplest, highest yielding, easiest way to grow is to come in and rototill the top soil , add gypsum, castings, and compost. and then pile a bunch of soilless media on top of that and roto till some more and mound it up and plant.

I also like mounds because you can make them bigger every year ! Smart pots just stay the same size and just look so ugly!

 

[Z-ro]

smartpots are nice if you are trying to create a hydro like environment in your rootzone, or are doing coco fiber in the greenhouse. the added air, water and food has my plants looking neon green like ins grown with GH. You will spend more on ferts but quality will vastly make up for it ime. the one time i grew in ground the killed in the yield dept though. like gcg said, most growers are just looking for simplicity and smartpots offer that.

 

[plastochron]

Veg, I will definitely post some pics of the beds on top of mounds. Currently in process of removing the existing beds to dump on more soil. I am considering hauling all the soil out to retill the base but it makes me tired just thinking about it. Not sure yet, just want to error on side of caution to avoid red clay drainage issue... I practically have nightmares about it. How much are you paying per yard for the compost? How about the castings? I'm trying to find somewhere to get it at 20/yard or less including delivery but the best I have found is about 30. No biggie though, I pretty much have enough already (just brought in 100+ of 2 yr old composted horse manure), but always willing to break bread now to save some later.

 

[Veg N Out]

I'm paying 62 dollars a yard to have it blended delivered and have some other stuff done to it custom. That's a lot of horse poop. The only manure I use was made by worms..and this is @ 20% of the volume of my base being castings ....Yum...

You'll also never see coir fiber in any of my gardens. Nasty shit. They kicked it out of the states about 50 years ago and should have never let that trash back in ! Just my opinion of course...

 

[plastochron]

what's your beef with coir? the horse manure is not even recognizable as former shit... it looks and smells just like dark, fertile green waste compost