Starting a room

[2886]

@chunkypigs I don't know why but your post really drove it home. I was going to post a reply yesterday but i got swamped. Now i get what Hydro-Soil meant when he said "go small". It isn't so much about the plant numbers but the overall complexity of the setup.

@st3ve Your post really helped in clearing a bunch of things up. I was setting up the a/c and dehumidifier cause i'm pretty sure down the road i will need the dehumidifier (stories about RH in flower) and then the a/c is a must for my area. Temperatures get so hot and i want to stop running the central air to save some money/amps. So a portable in the grow and two more portables for the house for comfort.

I scrapped the idea of having a lung room, will be adding that with the c02 after a couple of grows. Will still be doing two vertical 600s with 6 plants. Will also fashion two "walls" framed with pvc and panda paper to section off the flower room. Will be cutting two passive intakes, both of them leading to the closet of the adjoining bedrooms. Will have a flap over the closet area for mother/clones.


I've seen the longer version of that video in the past. Thanks for the link! I thought i lost it. I will be fashioning a window thing like in the video.

I wanted the a/c cause i also wanted to do bare bulb with a vortex fan underneath pointing straight up at the lights that would distribute the heat but that + the heat outdoors and the fact that it's on the second floor makes the a/c mandatory imo.

Definitely vent to the outside if you can, save yourself the headaches later. Yes to just cutting a vent whole in the bottom of the wall between the lung and vent room. Just make sure to have air coming into the lung room from somewhere else also. Gotta keep that air flowin.. rule of thumb: have at least 12"x12" of passive intake for every 300cfm of exhaust. You also want to run your lights at night to help fight the heat. 10pm to 10am seems to be the sweet spot for the lowest average temps but YMMV. And a lung room isn't a necessity. just a luxury.

Given the window idea, could i exhaust both the grow and the portable a/c through holes that i cut in the plywood? Then with the passive intakes to the adjoining bedrooms (i'll make sure to open the windows in the bedrooms to circulate new air in) would that be a good setup? Would need to figure out the hole sizes and the fan ratings but with that general idea do you think it would work?

Tobacco mosaic? Hooked leaves, do you mean the tips were curling in, like a claw?

i think so. i remember reading a post about it about a year ago and my leaves (3) looked the same. It looks like a broken finger, not curling. One of the tips (of 5 tips) of all 3 leaves would be flat but have a 90 degree turn about half way from the tip.

The current clone seems to have a nutrient deficiency but that will have to wait until i finish setting up her new home. I think i will crop it and LST it so that it will have multiple nodes. Will have to refresh myself on that.

Oh. There will be filters and scrubbers, smell is definitely a concern and steps will be taken to address it. I just haven't figured out which ones i want or which ones would be ideal for my setup cause i didn't know for SURE what i wanted to do. The room is now primed and will soon have a coat of flat white

And lastly.. keep it as simple as you can. The problem now is.. you're probably a pretty smart guy and it probably seems like you can just read up and be good to go. The problem is though, you don't know what you don't know.. and you won't know until you get a few grows under your belt. Every room and environment is different. People will give you all sorts of good advice, but it may not be good advice for your particular situation. Start small with as minimal investment in equipment as possible. Then as you become more experienced, you will learn how to maximize your own environment and what the plants need in your space. Trust me.. save yourself the hassle of complication. Just do the one light, and six smaller plants. Smaller plants are easier than larger ones and you can still play with some different genetics if you want. With only one light.. you likely won't have to fight the heat just yet so you can focus on healthy plants.

Almost forgot about this. I already factored the cost of 2 portable a/c's and 3 lights into the budget. The a/c's are a precaution so i don't have to hustle if a component breaks. i can substitute and then go through the warranty process. Heat has always and is still the primary concern. After that is RH and mold.

Maybe i am being stubborn or stupid but I've been planning this two light setup for a while and would like to see it happen. I know i should take baby steps with one light but the potential from 2 is just too hard to resist. I'm hoping that by eliminating the heat issue i can focus on the plants and optimizing their conditions. I really hope i make it to the stage where i build the lung room and have TREES!


about the clone, when do you switch from 24 to 18/6?

Thanks for all the replies! this has been extremely informative and helpful!

 

[Chunkypigs]

1 so you need to decide if you will use AC or aircool. is your place airconditioned 24/7 thru a central unit?
it sounds like you are in az or similar if you have 105 deg daytime temps. if you use ac in your place right through winter you want ac. if it gets to 105 a few times in the summer like where I live but the nights are always in the 70s or cooler you can aircool at night and shut down some lights during a heatwave if night time temps get
unusually high a few times. you can keep your temps within 5 degrees of outdoor temp
if you move enough air.

more info is needed about your situation to help you make a good decision and not waste a bunch of your money.

why dont you buy a cheap 1500w space heater for 35 bucks and run it for 12 hours in your room with just your house ac on and see what happens? cheap to try and might work. chopping holes in any walls is a bad idea for your 1st run. if the room has a door or a window or both you can cool 1200w + 200w veg lights without making new holes in the room.

 

[Chunkypigs]

and also....

(stories about RH in flower)... what you need is experience with humidity in flower, not stories about it. get a good growroom temp/humid with a white remote probe. get the one that has memory of high and low. measure your room with it. a good coat of paint is probably all you need in a room that size. wait before you build reflecting screens.

how are you going to get enough electric for all these things you want to run in a bedroom that size? there is no way it is wired for all that you have mentioned.
have you measured the ppm of your water yet?

you need to know what your limiting factors are to plan a grow that is WINNING.
plants need light, airflow, good water.
the equip needs juice. do you know how many amps you have in your space?

be flexible in your plans till the basics are figured. do you have any plant count you want/need to worry about? are you trying to pull x amount over some time period?

 

[2886]

1 so you need to decide if you will use AC or aircool. is your place airconditioned 24/7 thru a central unit?
it sounds like you are in az or similar if you have 105 deg daytime temps. if you use ac in your place right through winter you want ac. if it gets to 105 a few times in the summer like where I live but the nights are always in the 70s or cooler you can aircool at night and shut down some lights during a heatwave if night time temps get
unusually high a few times. you can keep your temps within 5 degrees of outdoor temp
if you move enough air.

more info is needed about your situation to help you make a good decision and not waste a bunch of your money.

why dont you buy a cheap 1500w space heater for 35 bucks and run it for 12 hours in your room with just your house ac on and see what happens? cheap to try and might work. chopping holes in any walls is a bad idea for your 1st run. if the room has a door or a window or both you can cool 1200w + 200w veg lights without making new holes in the room.

Is there a downside to using a portable a/c other than the cost to purchase one and the power to operate? I like to play it safe. I don't want to borderline it and have it go bad cause i was on the wrong end of standard deviation.

95% of my planned grow is based on "stories". It is all i have to work with and i'm trying to make the most of what i have. For electricity, i will be adding an additional line from each bedroom and run it into the bedroom. The three bedrooms are on different 15 amp breakers. So most likely will be a/c on one, big lights on another and the smaller lights and fans on the third. Will do the math later this weekend when all the equipment is accounted for.

Also, the idea is to stop using the house a/c. Holes aren't an issue. it's a simple fix with drywall and whatever that compound is and then sand the surface and paint.

I appreciate the effort to save me money but I am pretty sure i need the portable a/c since my plan is to not run the house a/c as much and when i do it will be to cool the rest of the house. I will close the house a/c vent to that room. I hate it when i leave for multiple nights and am forced to cool the entire house when all i really need is that one room to be temperature controlled.

I haven't measured PPM yet. Still need to research and see what people are using in terms of instruments. I already have a rough list i wrote down in my notebook somewhere (light meter, water measurement thing, RO system and such).

finished the first coat of flat white. I freaking love how bright the room is! Will be applying a second coat today and will be refreshing myself with cropping this sucker and possibly shifting it to 18/6

also began purchases of the supplies needed for the delta9's ppk bucket. Will make a test bucket soon and post pictures!

Oh.. and all my red wrigglers died I bought two pounds and had everything set up as instructed with the bedding and food. But i think it's cause it was in the garage and temperatures got especially hot. Need to buy more worms when it cools down a little.

 

[Chunkypigs]

If you have central ac you could obstruct or close off every room but your growroom on the
way out of the unit and a large fan / scrubber that pumps scrubbed air into the rest of the house to return into the intakes of the system.

Are you planning to run a sealed room with the portable??

 

[2886]

If you have central ac you could obstruct or close off every room but your growroom on the
way out of the unit and a large fan / scrubber that pumps scrubbed air into the rest of the house to return into the intakes of the system.

Are you planning to run a sealed room with the portable??

you're missing the point of the portable. i want the option to cool the bedrooms and living areas with the central air.

I don't understand what you are describing but it seems complicated. how would i effective redistribute the cooled air to the rest of the of house without using the hvac ducts?

No sealed room. hole in the wall for passive intake and powered exhaust through the window. Planning on opening the windows in the bedrooms to circulate new air daily. Won't be running a sealed room until i build the lung room and figure out a c02 solution.

 

[2886]

with the portable a/c i effectively have two temperature zones in my house.

If i left my house for 2 days the whole house could be a toasty 100 degrees while the temperature in the grow is maintained by the a/c.

I would probably have to install something on the intake holes ( read this in a thread somewhere ) where it closes when the a/c is on and opens up to allow intake when the a/c is off.

 

[Chunkypigs]

OK, I think I get it now...
1.intake air comes into the growroom thru a hole @ 100 degrees from the rest of the house.
2. portable AC cools the 100 degree air enough to not kill grow ....
3. fan blows the cold air out the window drawing more 100 degree air into the room for cooling.
4. rinse and repeat.

 

[2886]

OK, I think I get it now...
1.intake air comes into the growroom thru a hole @ 100 degrees from the rest of the house.
2. portable AC cools the 100 degree air enough to not kill grow ....
3. fan blows the cold air out the window drawing more 100 degree air into the room for cooling.
4. rinse and repeat.

Well at least that was the idea.

When you laid it out like that it doesn't sound too bright with the circulation of 100 degree air. Was your post sarcastic or do you think it'll work?

 

[Ohmless]

i lost entire rooms of carpet to trusting tarps to prevent water damage. Make a square frame to make a reservoir/floor out of panda poly and make sure to shop vac it up right away.

 

[bad gas]

I just finished my first grow setup. I started out with a lot of "good" ideas which would have been impractical at best. The more research you do, the more simple your grow will get.

Dial in your environment first. Can you deal with the heat those lights give off? A 4-bulb T-5 will give off a surprizing amount of heat. All my lights are air-cooled. I made my own vertical air-cooled light setup. The ones you buy look like trash.

You have been given good advice by the other posters.

I, also, am a PPK man. If you read his whole thread, you will know a lot. Read the scientific papers.

As one noob to another, start as simple as possible.

If you want a couple of PPK tips, PM me so I don't jack your thread.

Good luck to you. It's a really special feeling when your plants don't lay over and die right away. bg

 

[2886]

i lost entire rooms of carpet to trusting tarps to prevent water damage. Make a square frame to make a reservoir/floor out of panda poly and make sure to shop vac it up right away.

definitely. I'm toying with the idea of completely removing the carpet but that is so labor intensive.

Finished the second coat of paint and cleaned things up. Is there a powder that i should add to the carpet before start constructing on top of it? I disinfected the room with bleach before i painted, so i think i'm good there. Just worried about the carpet.

 

[bad gas]

Sorry, I didn't notice your post count. You can't PM until 50 posts. So, get some posts made.

I built the version of the PPK that got 22 oz from 1 plant with a 4-week veg and a 9-week flower. It's also simpler than the final version. Sweet tooth #3 clone. bg

 

[2886]

I just finished my first grow setup. I started out with a lot of "good" ideas which would have been impractical at best. The more research you do, the more simple your grow will get.

Dial in your environment first. Can you deal with the heat those lights give off? A 4-bulb T-5 will give off a surprizing amount of heat. All my lights are air-cooled. I made my own vertical air-cooled light setup. The ones you buy look like trash.

You have been given good advice by the other posters.

I, also, am a PPK man. If you read his whole thread, you will know a lot. Read the scientific papers.

As one noob to another, start as simple as possible.

If you want a couple of PPK tips, PM me so I don't jack your thread.

Good luck to you. It's a really special feeling when your plants don't lay over and die right away. bg

I don't mind it at all. Definitely the grand plants of having a sealed room with c02 is out the window . Hopefully i will still be able to do the six plant ppk set up i want.

The ppk thread was so informative. I'm working my through it and have a basic picture of what it will look like laid out.

I'm going to build a bed for the grow area like they did in that video. That should take care of most of the spillage. the rest of the floor will be covered and i think its time to start looking for a shop vac.

Private messages on here are weird. They only allow you one and then you have you delete your sent before you can receive. I think it is easier to post on here.

The problem right now is the ventilation. The plan right now is to have the room draw air from the house. Then to construct the fiberboard box for the window to hook up the a/c exhaust. And then cut a second hole in that same box for the room exhaust (which will be ducted to the point in the room furthest from the a/c) complete with a duct booster if needed and a scrubber on the end.


Do you think that would work? Am i still going to be wasting the a/c? I really don't think i can get by with straight air cooling my room. Its really hot.

 

[Chunkypigs]

Well at least that was the idea.

When you laid it out like that it doesn't sound too bright with the circulation of 100 degree air. Was your post sarcastic or do you think it'll work?

I was trying to be funny hoping you would see it for yourself.
it might work if the fan blowing outside was very weak and barely
exchanged any air but what would be the point of that?

I'm just trying to help you cause when I read your post it sounded
like me when I set up my 1st grow and wasted money that I could
not afford at the time.

It's really hard to figure out what works but it would be easier to help you figure out what "might" work in your space if you provide more info about your climate.

I think what might work if you are some place like death valley hot is your portable ducted in and out the window and a fan and filter that create negative pressure in your room and scrub out the stink by exchanging air with the rest of your airconditioned house. if the air in the house is 100 degrees fail, if it's 75- 80 winning.

people say those portables leak smell, do you have neighbors?

there is a thread here called ventilation 101 somewhere might give it a look.

remember that besides cooling you have to deal with the smell.
tents are the easy solution for the smell and light problem.
good luck!

 

[St3ve]

if it is truely 100F most of the time then pulling outside air isn't going to work and you really are going to need to use AC and Co2.

what are the temps from 10pm to 10am? If its over 80F then just scrub what I said and go back to your ac and co2 idea..yes its harder but you really won't have a choice. With elevated c02 levels you can safely run your room and the 84-84F range and be successful, but with fresh air cooling you really want to stay at 80 or below. And if the outside air is already there then you have no where to go but up when the lights come on.

 

[2886]

It's really hard to figure out what works but it would be easier to help you figure out what "might" work in your space if you provide more info about your climate.

if it is truely 100F most of the time then pulling outside air isn't going to work and you really are going to need to use AC and Co2.

i did more research on the portable a/c.

What i gathered is the single hose a/c units are the ones that leak smell because it draws the stinky air from the room. The dual hose a/c have separate intake and exhaust. Therefore the cooling system is supposed to run like an air cooled hood.

The portables are highly inefficient, generate heat, and you have to overdo it and get the higher btu one.

Temperatures here are ~100 during the day and 70 at night. Running from 10-10 would do the trick but what about the day time when i'm not there?

Is it possible to have the room air cooled while lights on and then have the a/c handle cooling during the day time? Would 100 degree weather during lights off be a problem? Won't be running c02 and such. You guys already convinced me to step back for my first grow.

what bout the odd week where it is ~110 during the day and ~90 at night? Would that damage my crop?

people say those portables leak smell, do you have neighbors?

there is a thread here called ventilation 101 somewhere might give it a look.

I do have neighbors. the side of my house with the window i plan to exhaust from is roughly 20 feet at the shortest point between my house and his. and that is his living room.


Given that night time temps are ~70. How would i do it now? Would the exhaust still be at the window or is the goal now to draw in the cooler air from outside.

in the youtube video his grow room was in his attic. He added "anti detection" sheeting to the ceiling. Is that a precaution i should take as well?

 

[2886]

with night time temps in the 70s but day time temps hovering at 106.

I feel safer having the a/c in there for when day time temps get too high and i need to run it.

Given that it is now ~70 at night. The air in the house would be cooler.

The plan right now is to have the room draw air from the house. Then to construct the fiberboard box for the window to hook up the a/c exhaust. And then cut a second hole in that same box for the room exhaust (which will be ducted to the point in the room furthest from the a/c) complete with a duct booster and a scrubber on the end.

does this work now? I feel like i still to plan for the a/c for the high day time temperatures.

 

[St3ve]

I can't visualize what you are describing.


I think you need to just see how things go before investing in the portable AC you're talking about. You said yourself that its inefficient as well as a security risk. Fail.

I think you should just stick with what was already mentioned which is just use the whole house ac. Done.. You can buy one extraction fan with a carbon filter mounted up at the ceiling, duct to the fan, vented outside. If its mostly 70 at night you won't even have to run it all that much. When you DO have to run it, just cool the room that your pulling fresh air from. Open the window enough to allow some fresh air for the vent. (open it enough based on the 12x12" per 300 cfm of extraction) and close off all of the other vents in the house. If you decide that you want the rest of the house cool, then just open the vents. It will take you less than a minute to walk around the house and change around the vent dampers.

As for day and night.. you can buy a fan controller that will run the fan full speed during lights on, and slow when the lights are off. (to keep negative pressure). If you have an programable thermostate for the house then even better. Set it to 80F during the day and 70-72F or so at night when the lights are on.

You are making this too complicated. Its just an house ac.. its not like you're going to have $500 power bills.. and so what if you do. Worse case scenario just drop in that second 600w and you will pay for the power bill 10 times over.

 

[2886]

I can't visualize what you are describing.


I think you need to just see how things go before investing in the portable AC you're talking about. You said yourself that its inefficient as well as a security risk. Fail.

I think you should just stick with what was already mentioned which is just use the whole house ac. Done.. You can buy one extraction fan with a carbon filter mounted up at the ceiling, duct to the fan, vented outside. If its mostly 70 at night you won't even have to run it all that much. When you DO have to run it, just cool the room that your pulling fresh air from. Open the window enough to allow some fresh air for the vent. (open it enough based on the 12x12" per 300 cfm of extraction) and close off all of the other vents in the house. If you decide that you want the rest of the house cool, then just open the vents. It will take you less than a minute to walk around the house and change around the vent dampers.

As for day and night.. you can buy a fan controller that will run the fan full speed during lights on, and slow when the lights are off. (to keep negative pressure). If you have an programable thermostate for the house then even better. Set it to 80F during the day and 70-72F or so at night when the lights are on.

You are making this too complicated. Its just an house ac.. its not like you're going to have $500 power bills.. and so what if you do. Worse case scenario just drop in that second 600w and you will pay for the power bill 10 times over.

i get where you're coming from. the house a/c is old and it makes a weird sound. i definitely would have to get it looked into if i decide to run it for the grow.

with what you're describing.. air will come in through the intake from the rest of the house and then exhausted out through the window. if enough airflow occurs, will this be adequate to cool the room during lights on if the outdoor temperatures stay under x degrees.

with that setup, i believe i could also setup the portable to exhaust through the same window. Am i missing something?

the cost of the portable a/c is not a problem. I want to stop running the house a/c cause it needs to be maintained and i don't want to go through the process of calling someone to come. The a/c runs a lot noisier than my neighbors. And it is not all that efficient.

Plus when i want to move to a sealed room setup with c02 (if i choose to go that route) i will have the a/c. If not it could be used to cool the living room. The portable a/c is very versatile and has many applications, i have no qualms purchasing one.

The portable a/c that has odor leaks are the single hosed ones. The portable a/c i found is dual hosed. I will run an odor test before I actually put it in though. What would be a good test to see if odor escapes?

I think I am finally visualizing it correctly.. hopefully.