Some help with Ocean Forest...

[su44us]

Get your basic soilless mix like the 1/3 peatmoss + 2/3 perlite I suggested or promix. You want little dol. lime because your adding cal mag in your water. Then use the flora nova series ferts. They are excellent. 1 bottle grow and 1 bottle bloom. You can always tinker.

Flora nova series
• The marriage of hydroponic & organic gardening methods.
• Extremely easy to use.
• Outstanding for all plant types.
• Superb for Hydroponic, Soil-less, and Soil Cultivation.
• Super Concentrated and pH Stabilized.
• Optimum nutrient absorption is aided by Natural Humic Extracts.


the following specs are in N-P-K-Mg format
Flora Nova Bloom 4-8-7-2
Flora Nova Grow 7-4-10-1.5

ml per gallon (3.8L) of water; numbers are in parts per million



Only use 3 to 4ml on seedlings of the grow formula.

How's that for easy.

Touche!

You win sproutco.. I will grow in both soil and soilless this time and see which one I like better.



I have to profess though, it feels as though I am starting from scratch again since I just started feeling like I had a clue in soil.

 

[sproutco]

That flora nova series just seems so darn easy. Start with 3 to 4 ml grow when the seedlings get their true first leaves not just cotyledons. When plants get somewhat larger, switch to full strength at 8ml. At bloom, use 8ml of the bloom formula. Last week or two straight water. (ml per gallon 3.8L of water) Always adjust ph of the fert water after mixing. Don't add a whole lot of dolomite lime to the mix. Promix, etc...may contain ample without any additional added.

 

[B.C.]

Whaaaaat ?

Whaaaaat ?

: If your trying to get a good crop in and not be guessing, you should not use ocean forest and go totally soilless.

What makes ya think yer not guessin too?You start out with plain soilless mix but once ya fert. a plant,how is that you know how much,and more specifically what nutes that plant is useing up and not useing up on a regular bases, you don't so yer jus guessin...Then if ya have a problem ya flush em.Now because this is peat based mix jus like soil how is it you know it all flushed out?,ya don't.Then at this point yer guessin agian.lol Ya know when it comes to real soil there is a big buffer zone against stuff like that.No need to ph your water,that soil will buffer ph ranges from 5 clear up to 8 ya won't do that with soilless.... You'll have no problem getting a great crop useing o.f.it's been documented here at IC Mag over and over.Well I ~guess~ I'm done.take care...BC

 

[sproutco]

^^ Good point.

Because when quality nutrient solutions are created, the creators test how much the plant has used and how much needed to be added back regularly. Then through testing, they know what the formula should be. Like Hoaglands nutrient solution developed at the univ. of california in the 1950's. It is excellent. Research this nutrient solution on the internet. I am not sure what you will find. I created a whole thread about using the flora nova series now with complete directions. Take a look. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=38801:YaRight:

 

[stretchpuppy]

I was preparing for my next grow, and I have decided to go with Fox Farms Ocean Forest potting soil. I also have a large bag of perlite.

Fox Farms claims that it is a well aerated soil with good drainage that doesn't need to be mixed with anything.

I had been planning to mix 2-1 Ocean Forest(66%) to perlite(33%), but someone else suggested that I should go higer with the perlite.. Maybe even as high as 50% (sounds too high to me).

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be an optimal mix for Ocean Forest? Should I add lime? Anything else?

I really screwed up with my first potting mix, and I am determined to do it right this time. Eventually I will probably create my own mixes, but for now, I want to eliminate soil conditions as possible source of problems while I focus on learning other aspects of the grow.

Thanks for taking the time to help.

Your mix sounds good. By going with "OF" instead of "potting mix" you're already a little ahead of the game. I added an entire bag of perlite (mid sized bag- few liters?) tho I don't know the %. I'd add 1tbsp of lime per gallon of the mix. I wouldn't go higher than 50%... all bagged soil claims well aeirated don't it?

What do you plan to feed with?

That flora nova series just seems so darn easy. Start with 3 to 4 ml grow when the seedlings get their true first leaves not just cotyledons. When plants get somewhat larger, switch to full strength at 8ml. At bloom, use 8ml of the bloom formula. Last week or two straight water. (ml per gallon 3.8L of water) Always adjust ph of the fert water after mixing. Don't add a whole lot of dolomite lime to the mix. Promix, etc...may contain ample without any additional added.

It is easy, but a lil messy.

FYI I use Veg and bloom. In promix and RO water, I hit slight burning of the leaf tips feeding at 5ml/gal and they were 30 days old and mature. I wouldn't go over 4ml/gal in veg for soil.

In bloom I never go over 5ml a gallon in soil... as I have burned in bloom going over as well. Esp. with the additives.

I know of the Lucas Method, which I have run in my waterfarms using GH 3 part, but in soil the numbers will be less than his calculations. Even for FLoraNova.

 

[sproutco]

^^ Thanks for your insight about floranova strength. I put your quote in that thread in the soil forum so others can benefit.

 

[su44us]

Your mix sounds good. By going with "OF" instead of "potting mix" you're already a little ahead of the game. I added an entire bag of perlite (mid sized bag- few liters?) tho I don't know the %. I'd add 1tbsp of lime per gallon of the mix. I wouldn't go higher than 50%... all bagged soil claims well aeirated don't it?

What do you plan to feed with?



It is easy, but a lil messy.

FYI I use Veg and bloom. In promix and RO water, I hit slight burning of the leaf tips feeding at 5ml/gal and they were 30 days old and mature. I wouldn't go over 4ml/gal in veg for soil.

In bloom I never go over 5ml a gallon in soil... as I have burned in bloom going over as well. Esp. with the additives.

I know of the Lucas Method, which I have run in my waterfarms using GH 3 part, but in soil the numbers will be less than his calculations. Even for FLoraNova.

Ok.. This brings up a question I had about feeding in general.. If I am growing in soil, then are those PPM values from the website that sproutco pointed me at http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm still ok?

I know that it is meant for hydro, but sproutco advised me that it was fine in soil with every watering at those levels..

I am currently following the Bio-Bizz feeding schedule.. And feeding at their designated amounts every watering 3ml/l Bio-Grow, 3ml/L Bio-Bloom, 1ml/L Top Max.

Is this ok?

 

[sproutco]

Ok.. This brings up a question I had about feeding in general.. If I am growing in soil, then are those PPM values from the website that sproutco pointed me at http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm still ok?

I know that it is meant for hydro, but sproutco advised me that it was fine in soil with every watering at those levels..

I am currently following the Bio-Bizz feeding schedule.. And feeding at their designated amounts every watering 3ml/l Bio-Grow, 3ml/L Bio-Bloom, 1ml/L Top Max.

Is this ok?

I don't know if I would totally trust those numbers in that link. But, do use the calculator to figure exactly what your ppms are. Sprout's rule of thumb might be to watch your phosphorus levels for being too much and building up while using nutrient retaining media. Work out the ppm's your using and I (or we) will take a look at them.

 

[stretchpuppy]

Ok.. This brings up a question I had about feeding in general.. If I am growing in soil, then are those PPM values from the website that sproutco pointed me at http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm still ok?

I know that it is meant for hydro, but sproutco advised me that it was fine in soil with every watering at those levels..

I am currently following the Bio-Bizz feeding schedule.. And feeding at their designated amounts every watering 3ml/l Bio-Grow, 3ml/L Bio-Bloom, 1ml/L Top Max.

Is this ok?

Personally I buy good, known, nutrients and trust them. I don't breat out specific requirement levels of each Element and see where my mix that night compares... that's insane. It's up to you to feed, see how they respond. Sproutco is just pushing you in a general area and leaving it up to you to do the research... keep that in mind.

I would look up Bio-Bizz on these soil forums and see what people are feeding at. In soil it's always less than the label... sometimes by at least 50%.

Mandala Mike's post on feeding.. good read.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=13689

 

[GrowingHigher]

i use fox farm regularly, and love it, but certainly understand why people wouldn't.

i mix 3 parts fox farm with 1 part perlite, 1 part vermiculite, 1 part coco coir or peat moss. with this mix, i start fertilizing about a month and a half from seed between 400-600 total ppm, which is less than full strength (botanicare pbp veg and bloom, liquid karma, and cal-mag).

if you arn't careful with the ph of water you use it is easy to get ph lockout, usually starting as a mag. defficiency. it is essential to use a mag nute with this soil mix in general though.

straight fox farm can be to hot for young plants, and dosn't drain as well as i like. it also seems to be compacted easily (probably because high peat moss content. coco coir dosn't compact.)

 

[DurbanPoison]

Uhh, that page gives me a headache. Those are all just guidelines... as you can see by all the variables in the charts, so much can be affected by enviroment, genetics, that you can't put an exact lable on what is 100% perfect. B.C is right in his post above, it's all guessin, as every enviroment is slightly different.

Personally I buy good, known, nutrients and trust them. I don't breat out specific requirement levels of each Element and see where my mix that night compares... that's insane. It's up to you to feed, see how they respond. Sproutco is just pushing you in a general area and leaving it up to you to do the research... keep that in mind.

I would look up Bio-Bizz on these soil forums and see what people are feeding at. In soil it's always less than the label... sometimes by at least 50%.

Mandala Mike's post on feeding.. good read.

"Uhh, that page gives me a headache..." & "It's all guessin..."

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=13689

No... it isn't. It's science. Even if you would like to believe that growing is an art - photosynthesis is still going to happen. Too bad. I have used johnson's solution almost to the T with that formula. About 100-30-150-70-35 in my hydro. I used distilled water. This solution made my plants take off like they were connected to an air pump or something. Unbelievable results. Whether you can understand it, or not. Don't knock it until you try it. Especially since you're not taking the time to understand it.

 

[stretchpuppy]

I was attempting to keep it simple. Different genetics have different needs... so I still stand by the statement that those are guidelines.

Peas and carrots,

 

[DurbanPoison]

. I don't breat out specific requirement levels of each Element and see where my mix that night compares... that's insane. It's up to you to feed, see how they respond.

You obviously have some experience. I'm sorry for labeling you wrong and so quickly at that. The reason I support what sproutco was referring to is because I spent some hours reading and researching on what he explained. What I've found is that much of the work has already been done for us, years and years ago. This is homework that we don't have to do. Yes, I also give you they're guidelines as well. Every application isn't going to be the same. But isn't it easier to do something on your own after someone shows you and you see it done vs. you going into the situation without any experience?

Just like you said it's up to the grower to see how the plants respond, that's exactly my point. But if your guessing as to what the issue 'looks' like without knowing what your 'solution' is going to be, then your throwing darts blind. Sure you might get a bullseye, but if you give yourself the opportunity to aim (knowing what your going to add/suppliment and how much of it), you'll have a better chance at correcting the problem. For example, let's say you have some type of major deficieny and you add some nute that has your solution to the problem in it. Perhaps you'll fix it, but cause a toxicity in the rift in something else. This also makes it easy to record so you know exactly what was done and you can see the changes from the numbers into the plants.

Again - sorry for venting. I think I read over your post a bit too quickly, but I really interpretted it as you just blowing it off all together and I wanted to see he get at least some credit. His wealth of knowledge and experience has been to great benefit for me. I'm not going to lie though - I struggled trying to understand most of it, but things have become significantly more clear to me.

Tomatoes and Tomato's
My Apologies;

~DP

 

[Freakshow]

K.I.S.S

K.I.S.S

What I have learned abotu Fox Farms Ocean Forest, is that the plants generally need nothing until they ask for it. The stuff is very hot. Plant them, water them and leave them the hell alone until they tell you they need to be fed. Then go with your normal feeding schedule, but not until. Keep it simple, folks
just my .02

peace