Soil, water, and tea questions

[h.h.]

All the chippers I see are broken down. They're best used on green wood.

Good leaves for composting: The best leaves for composting are those lower in lignin and higher is calcium and nitrogen. These leaves include ash, maple, fruit tree leaves, poplar, and willow. These ‘good’ leaves will typically break down in about a year.

Get a leaf blower with a vacuum shredder attachment. Fill up some chicken wire compost bins and let them sit. Don't turn them. Don't let them dry out.
Come back next year and pat yourself on the back for what you did this year. Throw the top on the bottom of next year's bin. Harvest the bottom.

The bark makes a good amendment. Hard to break down without microbial help or heavy machinery. It makes good mulch.
The wood might heat up the soil a little more. Should be good as compost or compost tea.
I used to make tea from the dried leaves. Just soak them for a day and use the water. May not add a lot, but you can't beat the cost. Helps the leaves break down.

 

[h.h.]

The Earthworm Bins I Use

I recommend 3.5 (pictured below), 5 or 6 gallon plastic buckets or at largest, 10 gallon rubber totes. Several small bins are preferable to one large bin because of maneuverability. A 3.5 gallon bucket filled with compost and one pound of worms will weigh between 15 and 20 pounds.
Note the rows of holes below the bin's rim. Ventilation is very important to your worms so only fill the bin to the bottom row of ventilation holes. I like to use lids on my bins to prevent escapees, making the ventilation holes even more important.

https://commonsensehome.com/vermicomposting/
Buckets of moonbeams. A couple of buckets and a couple pounds of worms. If you're not adding garbage, it doesn't get too wet. Plenty of bedding material. In the article they were using coco. Makes for a cleaner operation.

 

[moose eater]

Very cool.

I have trouble brewing in a couple mothers; one of the Goji OG and my GTH#1. Lighter medium green around the leaf edges, with darker green in the middles; Mostly mid-way up the plants. No noteworthy fading in veins. Deep, darker rose-pink petioles, and a mild droop in leaves (esp. upper, near growing shoots), and mild twist at growing shoot ends that looks like the beginning of root rot or over-feeding. But for the fact that they really haven't been fed, but for fulvic acid (Golden Goddess x 3 ml/gal. 2x's) and Grandma Enggy's H-2 humic acid @ 2 ml/gal. ~ 2x's), a bit of agricultural Epsom salts (2 x's at 1/2 tsp. +), and that's about it.

Oh, and 1/4 tsp/gallon of H2O Thrive Alive 1-2 times.

They haven't been over-watered. if anything, the last time around, I let them get a bit too dry.

Growing tips (particularly near the top of those two plants), are slightly lighter green in color.

I'm sure the roots are slightly colder than normal, as the shop has limited activity in it right now, but the box they're in sits on 2" of outdoor grade polyurethane foam sheeting, between the box and the concrete floor.

The shop is staying 68 - 70 degrees f., though warmer by a touch inside the box. One of three axial fans is shut down for the moment; not in bloom, and cooler than normal in the shop, dictated the third fan take a vacation.

Due to absence of any serious other plant presence, the humidity is sticking to around 20-21% with some limited times of very low, reaching 16% just briefly. Not much to be done for that, other than to add more plants to the room.

I hate to do it, but I think when they get a bit dryer, I'm going to add 2 cups of H2O2 per gallon of water, along with 3 ml of Pro-Tekt, read them a calming bed time story, pat them on their primary colas, tuck them back into bed, and wish them a good night's rest.. Something I could use myself, for that matter.

If this were a submarine or other Navy ship, right now there'd be a general quarters alarm going off some place.

 

[h.h.]

Zinc?

 

[moose eater]

Maybe zinc. Or I thought perhaps Manganese?

But in veg, with the soil only maybe a month or so into organic harmony?

No serious taxing on them at this point & they're on 21-1/2 hours of light. Under 4200k Philips 315 cmh.

I figured they'd be asking for pina coladas right about now!!

I'll threaten them, telling them either they shape up, or I'm taking back what ever amendments they still have left!!

 

[h.h.]

In general, if the materials you compost could be easily eaten by humans or chickens, then they have nearly no lignin present and are unlikely to break down into humus. On the other hand, if the materials being composted would make your goats or rabbits happy, then they contain a small to moderate amount of lignin and will probably create a nice combination of active and passive organic matter. Finally, if only termites or mushrooms would be able to eat your compostables, then the materials are 100% lignin and will rot slowly into soil-improving humus......hand, fungi thrive when gardeners add lignin-rich materials to their soil, especially if the organic matter is deposited on the surface rather than being mixed into the ground.

Anything written by Anna Hess. Three or four dollar e-pamphlets covering a wide range. Unlike books where you have to read a lot of filler to get to a couple key points, she gets to the point rather quickly and in a manner that even I can understand.

This explains my fascination with the yucca plant. It create multitudes of humus that dissolved easily into my teas. Then you add in all the steroidal saponins. Perhaps the extract in combination with other materials high in lignin.

All the leaves that they say are hard to compost, grind them fine and use them.

Oatmeal. Lumpy oatmeal full of worm castings. Full of amendments, wood bark, ground up yucca pods.
Fungal mouth harps and fading back to Mayall. Room to move.
It holds soil particles together with starch crossroads, highways , and byways and fast food chains for the mycelium to follow.

I use oatmeal in my soil but mostly I dig it into the top inch or so of the potted soil. Mix it in with the mulch. If you do this well ahead of time, the the non root dependent mycelium will be established at time of planting. Endomycorrhizae added at the actual time of planting.
Preform the holes and disturb everything as little as possible when planting.

There's a great big mystery
It sure has worried me
It's diddy wah diddy
It's diddy wah diddy
I wish somebody'd tell me what diddy wah diddy means

Well we come down to the valley
Got our babies in our arms
Yea we're Maggie's little children
And we're looking for Maggie's farm
Me and my cousin
Me and my brother
My little sister too
Come looking for a rainbow
Yea we're looking for a rainbow
Well we come down to the valley
We ain't far away no more
You can't leave us dying this time
'cause we're all around your door

 

[moose eater]

I have 'baby oatmeal' (like a clean organic Gerber or other mix)written down as a part of a mid-way, bloom boosting top-dressing that I found. One of the few items for that mix that I haven't gathered yet, and, ironically, one that I can probably snag from nearly any grocery store's shelves.

In the decaying aspen/balsam poplar here, separating fibrous pith or wood, from the bark, might take a bit of doing; some of it has been laying in the woods for going on 20 years. Some much less.

Lots of leaves from the various species of trees and shrubs described earlier here. Much of that, however, is in the woods, where it becomes a bit more difficult to harvest, as opposed to more easily raking it from a flatter, level, less encumbered lawn.

Our compost bin resembles Ms. Hess' preferred amendments for microbial or (????) benefits. We don't turn it much, try not to let it get too dry, though achieve this mostly through rain water or added hydration from the house, absent salty brines, etc.; water from steaming veggies, boiling corn, potatoes, etc.

Rarely add the brome hay clippings to the compost, but could begin using the grass-catcher on the mower more often for that.

The bin(s) are taller, framed in by pallets standing on edge, vertically, pinned with screws or spikes at the corners or edges, and often hold their wares for between 1 & 2 years.

The holdings in the bins, at the end of the process, range from brown and black thicker slop, to nice chunky darker composted materials. Less slop and more nice looking compost.

How ever, when we apply it to the garden, we often spread it relatively uniformly in depth, then till it in (in violation of the no-till folks credo, which it sounds as though Ms. Hess and yourself may be subscribers to).

One of our nemeses here includes the rhizomes/'weeds' that send prolific LONG runners through the raised beds in the main garden, flower boxes, and in the long mounded rows in the spud field.

My wife often tilling the soils there, as though working with a magnifying glass, utilizing a hand trowel and hand fork to go through literally nearly every sq. inch of dirt in those places, trying to remove every long stringy rhizome she can lay her eyes and hands on. A tremendous amount of effort is expended by her in this regard, EVERY spring here. A feat of dedication to behold.

I looked at charts again (seems I need to every time), and the symptoms predominantly expressed by the two mothers, could be magnesium def. in early phases (for which the Epsom salts may provide a result), or, especially in light of the coloring of the stems and petioles, zinc def.. Another maybe or two, but these are the two primary suspects at the moment.

This early into fresh organics, I'm as suspicious of lock-out as I am of anything truly deficient. Need to keep that forefront in my addressing of this issue.. It may take care of itself through hydration and dilution, which it seems at this point is quite possible.

In the mean-time, I'll look to see what I can come up with that specifically addresses zinc, without adding to anything else.

I also need to proceed with cleaning out the boxes, and doing a batch of four different strains of cuttings.

As my wife pointed out last year, when we were buried in weeding, harvesting, etc., we may be getting too old to be doing the amount of gardening/farming that we had become accustomed to doing over the years. A humble surrender to the concept of 'less is more.'

 

[h.h.]

The wood's probably good in your mix as well. I just don't want to say that and be wrong.
I have a lot of chipped pine, chipped elm, and cabinet shop sawdust around the fruit trees, much of it tilled in. It was fresh when I applied it. Mixed in with manure to provide N, it's been a good amendment.
Not knowing, I'd use it around the garden before bringing it inside.

Yes I do til. It is a necessary evil. I love plowing, it's my release, my meditation. I really have to control myself not to overdo it.
I have a 2 wheel tractor with rotary plow and power harrow attachments.
I have a 400' driveway that will turn into a creek when it rains. I thought that If I could capture all that water...To do so takes contour plowing and opening up the soil to accept the water.
When I put in the trees, I pretty much destroyed everything with heavy plowing and tilling. Terracing everything took a lot of dirt moving plus it was my only chance to open up the soil. I'm gradually building it back up. It will recover.
I still use the plow and harrow in the alleys between the rows. The rows themselves are left alone. The trees are mulched. Amendments are added to the alleys and mixed in with the harrow. I plow the alleys once or twice a year as needed to keep a trench open.
The areas between the plots are basically left alone.
In other areas, I've done stripes, leaving undisturbed areas in between. Cuts heal.
My version of limited til.

 

[h.h.]

Materials;
5 gallon bucket
Lid with gasket. (Paint store)
Sphagnum peat moss. (SPM)
Ag lime or...

Strain the SPM through a vegetable strainer, mix in a bit of lime, dampen it, and use it to fill the bucket up to a couple inches from the top. No holes in bucket. No drainage. Nada.
Cut the center out of the lid. Eight inch diameter or so. You just want a lip to keep the worms in.
Add a half pound or so of worms.
Use a mix of 50/50 cornmeal and oatmeal to feed.

When the food is gone, the worms are going to try and leave. Your castings are done. Strain out the worms and the SPM.

I put that in quotes because I'm paraphrasing what I've found on Google. It isn't from my own experience other than what I've done by accident.
Not having drainage holes makes it a lot cleaner. A little moisture at the bottom won't hurt. The peat will absorb it, the worms won't sit in it and drown. I imagine if you waited too long to harvest, it could become a problem.
Some use coco instead of the peat, which may be preferable for screening.
Most seem to be using the African night crawlers. Fast eaters and larger droppings. They've been discouraged in the past as escape artists. I don't see lids in all the pictures. Until I know better, they seem like a good idea.
For the price of a worm farm, I can buy a whole bunch of lids.
Life is so simple if you just let it be that way. All this crap they want to sell you just to make it harder.

 

[h.h.]

Don't know, heard claims. Zinc coated washers slipped into the soil.
The rosy color does suggest magnesium deficiency.

however. Magnesium is the essential ingredient in chlorophyll—each molecule has one magnesium atom at its center

Plaster, Edward. Soil Science and Management (Page 296). Cengage Textbook. Kindle Edition.

Hunger signs result from low levels of chlorophyll. These include interveinal chlorosis (Figure 12–15) and mottling of older leaves.

Plaster, Edward. Soil Science and Management (Page 297). Cengage Textbook. Kindle Edition.

Several biological reactions use zinc, including chlorophyll and protein production. Zinc also controls the synthesis of a plant hormone, indoleacetic acid, that stimulates plant growth.

Plaster, Edward. Soil Science and Management (Page 300). Cengage Textbook. Kindle Edition.

Dwarfed light colored growth.

 

[moose eater]

The only place here that gets power-tilled is the spud field; an old-school Troybilt Horse, preceding the days after Yard Machines or whom ever is alleged to have bought them out/taken them over.

I till a number of times, then add organics, then till at least once more, then hill while tilling, sometimes twice. Then plant spud seeds deeper than most.

We probably have some of the best fed potatoes in North America; lots of left-over bulk organics get out there, then fed with varying strengths (mostly mild to moderate, and sparingly) with 5-1-1 and 0-10-10.

Property's predominantly on a well-lit, south slope, though the driveway is relatively flat. I figured that in icy season, avoiding the luge run feature, either arriving home, or first thing in the morning, was a good goal. At super cold time, it permits driving in a straight line, back and forth a couple passes in the driveway, to loosen up the grease in the CV axles, and move the rubber boots around enough to help to avoid replacement of cracked/weathered boots or associated axles until absolutely necessary. Haven't had to deal with either break-down in -many- years, since employing this strategy.

Property's covered in 2-4" of loam atop the silt, sitting mostly in white spruce and aspen forest. Few birch on this land, though there is on some of the land surrounding it. I like birch, as does my wife, and for all sorts of things/purposes. But it will grow in permafrost soils, so not having it here doesn't hurt my feelings.

We have some alder here, which I typically try to let get large enough to selectively harvest for my fish and other smoking efforts, using it peeled and green when I use it to smoke meats. Keeps me from driving 25 miles each way to a place where I can cut gobs of it for smoking larger batches some times..

The zinc washers idea may have been a dusty memory in the back of the mental rolodex.. Thanks.

I recall using bits of flexible copper tube in the tea buckets, to sheath over air lines sometimes, as well as zinc-coated nuts that were hung as weights immediately above the air stones, back before I went with stainless steel for such things.

I suspect both bits of hardware added something to the mix; though the copper has, on occasion, concerned me. It's copper in concentrate that is used as an anti-rot/anti-fungal in wood treatments, historically speaking. "All things in moderation..."

The worm base sounds easy, predictable, etc. Any thoughts on dried or even wet and fungal-affected waste/stem debris from the bush beans and edible snow pod peas as worm diet?

Again, we're probably putting out at least several lbs of compost here per day; some days more, some less. Lots of coffee grounds in Melita cone filter papers. Lots of veggie trimmings, veggie steaming water, non-meat dinner scraps, fish vertebrae, fins and skin, etc.

+28 degrees f. now on the front porch; has rapidly increased since last night, coming up from +10 degrees f. to where it is now, in just about 6 hours. Likely to get sloppy slick in town, and I need to get fuel oil and other chores done today, while Mother Nature is smiling on me.

 

[moose eater]

Forgot to add a brief (very little I do is 'brief') update; the plants with limited lightening of green around the edges, with darker green in the middle of the leaf, -seem- to have improved some, following the Epsom salts treatment.

If it continues to any degree of concern, I can try a foliar spray with the Epsom, as they're still vegging, and I likely wont be taking cuttings for a bit less than a week.. if I kick myself in the ass under stress, and get rolling at a decent clip.

 

[paradoxlost]

The only place here that gets power-tilled is the spud field; an old-school Troybilt Horse, preceding the days after Yard Machines or whom ever is alleged to have bought them out/taken them over.

I till a number of times, then add organics, then till at least once more, then hill while tilling, sometimes twice. Then plant spud seeds deeper than most.

We probably have some of the best fed potatoes in North America; lots of left-over bulk organics get out there, then fed with varying strengths (mostly mild to moderate, and sparingly) with 5-1-1 and 0-10-10.

Property's predominantly on a well-lit, south slope, though the driveway is relatively flat. I figured that in icy season, avoiding the luge run feature, either arriving home, or first thing in the morning, was a good goal. At super cold time, it permits driving in a straight line, back and forth a couple passes in the driveway, to loosen up the grease in the CV axles, and move the rubber boots around enough to help to avoid replacement of cracked/weathered boots or associated axles until absolutely necessary. Haven't had to deal with either break-down in -many- years, since employing this strategy.

Property's covered in 2-4" of loam atop the silt, sitting mostly in white spruce and aspen forest. Few birch on this land, though there is on some of the land surrounding it. I like birch, as does my wife, and for all sorts of things/purposes. But it will grow in permafrost soils, so not having it here doesn't hurt my feelings.

We have some alder here, which I typically try to let get large enough to selectively harvest for my fish and other smoking efforts, using it peeled and green when I use it to smoke meats. Keeps me from driving 25 miles each way to a place where I can cut gobs of it for smoking larger batches some times..

The zinc washers idea may have been a dusty memory in the back of the mental rolodex.. Thanks.

I recall using bits of flexible copper tube in the tea buckets, to sheath over air lines sometimes, as well as zinc-coated nuts that were hung as weights immediately above the air stones, back before I went with stainless steel for such things.

I suspect both bits of hardware added something to the mix; though the copper has, on occasion, concerned me. It's copper in concentrate that is used as an anti-rot/anti-fungal in wood treatments, historically speaking. "All things in moderation..."

The worm base sounds easy, predictable, etc. Any thoughts on dried or even wet and fungal-affected waste/stem debris from the bush beans and edible snow pod peas as worm diet?

Again, we're probably putting out at least several lbs of compost here per day; some days more, some less. Lots of coffee grounds in Melita cone filter papers. Lots of veggie trimmings, veggie steaming water, non-meat dinner scraps, fish vertebrae, fins and skin, etc.

+28 degrees f. now on the front porch; has rapidly increased since last night, coming up from +10 degrees f. to where it is now, in just about 6 hours. Likely to get sloppy slick in town, and I need to get fuel oil and other chores done today, while Mother Nature is smiling on me.

How do spuds act as to break up soil compaction in and of themselves? I've always had the understanding that bulbous plants break up compaction extremely well.

 

[moose eater]

How do spuds act as to break up soil compaction in and of themselves? I've always had the understanding that bulbous plants break up compaction extremely well.

This could end up as one of my longer more recent rambling answers/replies, so fasten your seat-belt, roll up a doobie, and/or crack a beer... etc., etc...

In a counter-intuitive testament to plants/nature and a desire to live/reproduce, I've found that our most gnarly, looking like death warmed over, shrunken into ugly, mummified seed spuds actually thrive the best once planted. Sent some seeds to the bush once that I apologized for when sending, as they were the UGLIEST seed spuds on Earth, and they went NUTS.

Go figger....

Many people plant spuds in shallow mounds, then mound more dirt over the primary growth shoots when they pop up through the soil. I'm somewhat selectively lazy by nature, and over time, decided years ago to plant 8"-10" beneath the surface of the mounds, with (typically) no follow-up mounding.

The soil in the spud field has had a wide variety of additives put to it. When ordering 10-12 cu. yd loads of top soil years ago, I typically would go the extra distance and order 70:30 premium potting soil (70% top soil, and 30% sand) for ALL of the garden areas..

Unfortunately, and business in this country being what it's come to be, unless you had your favorite dump truck driver present to threaten the laborers at the top soil outlet with a bullwhip or shotgun should they err or attempt an overt sleight of hand, they often send what ever the hell they think they can get away with.

Short-sightedness, considering they have little idea as to whether they're dealing with someone who might or might not be apt to order numerous trucks a year for a while to come. They often, none the less, choose to screw themselves in the long run, by screwing the customer in the short run.

That said, on rare occasion, I received the product(s) I had ordered. More often than not, the 'sand' in the mix is actually very identifiable greyish silt.... I live on 125 vertical feet of silt, so you can imagine my thrill and joy when someone charges me to deliver.... what amounts to imported silt...

Peat:sand mix is awesome as a base. Peat:silt mix is akin to nasty-ass grey gelatin, that, once hydrated, you can't mistake it. Kick it once wetted, and it jiggles like a rotund individual with a new gym membership in high gear on the new stationary bike.

Add to that, the buggers have sometimes put a fair amount of smaller river-bed pea gravel in there. I guess on the up-side, it breaks up the consistency a bit, considering they screwed you on the sand, and gave you silt instead. Suddenly the gravel turns lemons into lemonade, almost...

When first tilled, then mounded, with a fair amount of bulk perlite and coarse compost added to compensate for the density that should not have been, the seeds will take a bit longer to overcome their depth of planting.

But as hinted at, potatoes are seemingly post-nuclear holocaust survivors. They are tunnel-digging escape artists.

I plant a couple viable seeds about every foot of row, 8" to 10" deep (with a piece of seed spud being portions of a whole spud with, preferably, at least two viable eyes per piece, if possible), and typically within a week or so, sometimes 10 days, they've popped up into sunshine.

I compulsively walk through the rows at this phase, counting each new plant to appear. Keeping a tally in my head, and averaging lbs/plant production, well ahead of any sane or reasonable schedule.. Like a kid counting Christmas presents under the tree..

Our June 21 is about 21' 50" of actual sunlight, so the sky is lit around the clock in later mid-June, to one extent or the other. Greenery GOES NUTS!!!! Chlorophyll over-dose abounds, as does lush growth.

The commercial folks who do hundreds of acres in spuds to my east, rarely put the type of amendments in their soil we do.. for obvious reasons.

I haven't taken a tape measure to our spud field, and it's not quite a true symmetrical rectangle, but I'd loosely estimate it (and I'm sure my estimate changes by the joint or glass) at about 35' or 40' x 60' or 65' or so.

We plant nice starchy spuds, often yellow fleshed and skinned (carola, nicocla, La Ratt, French Fingerling, Chieftain, German Butterball, Purple Majesty, and more, typically 6-7 varieties per year) producing good sized tubers with (as often as possible) good stable storage characteristics.

From that field (typically 6-7 full length rows) we typically harvest over 350-450 lbs. of premium spuds that make store-bought russets taste horrible in contrast. Our record was ~750 lbs.

All of that (probably unnecessary) preamble out of the way, after early waterings, and the nice, looser, previously tilled soil firming up on the surface with natural compaction, I've gone out and felt the surface, and fretted unnecessarily about the surface resembling partially-cured plaster of Paris. (I should have been born a Jewish grandmother).

None the less, each early summer/later spring, they're up and running.

What was the question again????.....

 

[paradoxlost]

This could end up as one of my longer more recent rambling answers/replies, so fasten your seat-belt, roll up a doobie, and/or crack a beer... etc., etc...

In a counter-intuitive testament to plants/nature and a desire to live/reproduce, I've found that our most gnarly, looking like death warmed over, shrunken into ugly, mummified seed spuds actually thrive the best once planted. Sent some seeds to the bush once that I apologized for when sending, as they were the UGLIEST seed spuds on Earth, and they went NUTS.

Go figger....

Many people plant spuds in shallow mounds, then mound more dirt over the primary growth shoots when they pop up through the soil. I'm somewhat selectively lazy by nature, and over time, decided years ago to plant 8"-10" beneath the surface of the mounds, with (typically) no follow-up mounding.

The soil in the spud field has had a wide variety of additives put to it. When ordering 10-12 cu. yd loads of top soil years ago, I typically would go the extra distance and order 70:30 premium potting soil (70% top soil, and 30% sand) for ALL of the garden areas..

Unfortunately, and business in this country being what it's come to be, unless you had your favorite dump truck driver present to threaten the laborers at the top soil outlet with a bullwhip or shotgun should they err or attempt an overt sleight of hand, they often send what ever the hell they think they can get away with.

Short-sightedness, considering they have little idea as to whether they're dealing with someone who might or might not be apt to order numerous trucks a year for a while to come. They often, none the less, choose to screw themselves in the long run, by screwing the customer in the short run.

That said, on rare occasion, I received the product(s) I had ordered. More often than not, the 'sand' in the mix is actually very identifiable greyish silt.... I live on 125 vertical feet of silt, so you can imagine my thrill and joy when someone charges me to deliver.... what amounts to imported silt...

Peat:sand mix is awesome as a base. Peat:silt mix is akin to nasty-ass grey gelatin, that, once hydrated, you can't mistake it. Kick it once wetted, and it jiggles like a rotund individual with a new gym membership in high gear on the new stationary bike.

Add to that, the buggers have sometimes put a fair amount of smaller river-bed pea gravel in there. I guess on the up-side, it breaks up the consistency a bit, considering they screwed you on the sand, and gave you silt instead. Suddenly the gravel turns lemons into lemonade, almost...

When first tilled, then mounded, with a fair amount of bulk perlite and coarse compost added to compensate for the density that should not have been, the seeds will take a bit longer to overcome their depth of planting.

But as hinted at, potatoes are seemingly post-nuclear holocaust survivors. They are tunnel-digging escape artists.

I plant a couple viable seeds about every foot of row, 8" to 10" deep (with a piece of seed spud being portions of a whole spud with, preferably, at least two viable eyes per piece, if possible), and typically within a week or so, sometimes 10 days, they've popped up into sunshine.

I compulsively walk through the rows at this phase, counting each new plant to appear. Keeping a tally in my head, and averaging lbs/plant production, well ahead of any sane or reasonable schedule.. Like a kid counting Christmas presents under the tree..

Our June 21 is about 21' 50" of actual sunlight, so the sky is lit around the clock in later mid-June, to one extent or the other. Greenery GOES NUTS!!!! Chlorophyll over-dose abounds, as does lush growth.

The commercial folks who do hundreds of acres in spuds to my east, rarely put the type of amendments in their soil we do.. for obvious reasons.

I haven't taken a tape measure to our spud field, and it's not quite a true symmetrical rectangle, but I'd loosely estimate it (and I'm sure my estimate changes by the joint or glass) at about 35' or 40' x 60' or 65' or so.

We plant nice starchy spuds, often yellow fleshed and skinned (carola, nicocla, La Ratt, French Fingerling, Chieftain, German Butterball, Purple Majesty, and more, typically 6-7 varieties per year) producing good sized tubers with (as often as possible) good stable storage characteristics.

From that field (typically 6-7 full length rows) we typically harvest over 350-450 lbs. of premium spuds that make store-bought russets taste horrible in contrast. Our record was ~750 lbs.

All of that (probably unnecessary) preamble out of the way, after early waterings, and the nice, looser, previously tilled soil firming up on the surface with natural compaction, I've gone out and felt the surface, and fretted unnecessarily about the surface resembling partially-cured plaster of Paris. (I should have been born a Jewish grandmother).

None the less, each early summer/later spring, they're up and running.

What was the question again????.....

the question was whether or not the spuds would act to break up compaction or even fragic properties from soil

 

[slownickel]

Forgot to add a brief (very little I do is 'brief') update; the plants with limited lightening of green around the edges, with darker green in the middle of the leaf, -seem- to have improved some, following the Epsom salts treatment.

If it continues to any degree of concern, I can try a foliar spray with the Epsom, as they're still vegging, and I likely wont be taking cuttings for a bit less than a week.. if I kick myself in the ass under stress, and get rolling at a decent clip.

Sounds like more of a K issue than Mg from your description. Mg tends to make your plants get rid of nitrogen. Usually if you see response from Mg, it is due to a K excess. Often N excess is delt with by applying Mg as well. Usually the issue is P, not Mg.

Given the ratios of P and K you use, I can see where K would quickly be an issue. Ideally you want two times more P than K on your label.

 

[moose eater]

the question was whether or not the spuds would act to break up compaction or even fragic properties from soil

Yes, the potatoes will break through all sorts of surprisingly thicker or dense soil base (*including the shwagg that some have brought truckloads of, misrepresented as premium 70:30 peat:sand mix).

However, it's my strong belief that we get superior rates of growth and production using the methods I described.

We could probably 'up' the production with a slightly shallower planting in somewhat shallower mounds to start with, and follow-up of adding to the mounding, eventually creating circumstances similar to the depth described in initial planting, BUT, then we'd need to have a place to put the additional soil for mounding, that wouldn't lend itself to greater compaction via being placed in the troughs between the mounded rows.

Production-wise, as it is now, we get better results on MOST years, than anyone I know of any where near us who's doing spuds..

But, as I wrote earlier, very few spud farmers I know of are putting the dregs of blood meal, bone meal, kelp, langbeinite, dolomite, sulfur, etc., into their potatoes.. Partly due to economics, and also due to expectations that spuds -are- the nuclear holocaust survivors that they are.

We often get French Fingerlings larger than many folks I know get in size from their German butterballs or Chieftains.

The one issue we've had on deluxe spud years is the possibility of over-watering and them being too happy, where a limited amount of the largest spuds will develop brownish 'voids' in the middle that I attribute to the excess H2O. Those are harder to cull on initial inspection.

 

[moose eater]

Sounds like more of a K issue than Mg from your description. Mg tends to make your plants get rid of nitrogen. Usually if you see response from Mg, it is due to a K excess. Often N excess is delt with by applying Mg as well. Usually the issue is P, not Mg.

Given the ratios of P and K you use, I can see where K would quickly be an issue. Ideally you want two times more P than K on your label.

Thanks.

Yes, my traditional mixes used a (roughly) 1-3-2 ratio for NP&K sources. The mix before this one was one for which I adopted a more classic/simplistic approach that called for a 1-2-1 ratio. And the latest one was a modified version of Dank Frank's water-only mix, that seemed to bring the ratio of P down some, while raising the N a bit, to more equal with K. More of a 1-1.5-1 mix.

The stressed (but initially impressive) mix that I trashed the notes from after too many male stress flowers (two brief harvests ago; the one that consisted of 5 mothers I didn't want to waste), and in which I believe the amount of langbeinite was a primary suspect, performed really well early on into bloom, and pretty much all of the later portion of veg; big happy leaves, awesome stem structure, etc.

But again, I believe the amount of langbeinite (and maybe the interaction with limited amounts of pot ash and Kelp, and related micr-nutes), turned something that appeared to be 'THE TICKET,' into an 'uh-oh'.... in a disappointing manner.

I did note a very limited twisting sideways of one of the larger leaves near the top (but not right at the top) of the suspect Goji OG plant.

 

[moose eater]

It's quite possible at this point, that taking some advice re. sticking with what worked, and not changing too awful much at once, is the way to go; thus, maybe moving back to mixes I used over the last couple years, but increasing volume of soil, as well as amendments to break up the soil, such as rice hulls and pumice, and decreasing adjunct feedings, might be the next approach to try once the cuttings are up and running.

But yes, to some degree, and in terms of finding that magic elixir from 15 years ago, at this point, feels a bit like there's some shooting in the dark.

 

[h.h.]

I can see tilling the ground for spuds.
I imagine potatoes would be good for breaking up compacted soil.
I'm using daicon radish for that purpose. For the most part it all gets eaten before I realize any results. The principle is there.
Potatoes grow a lot better in uncompacted soil and are much easier to harvest.
Short answer is that they would help, long answer is I wouldn't grow them in compacted soil for harvest.

Excess K can interfere with Mg uptake.
Mg deficiency results in interveinal chlorosis.
K deficiency will result in yellowing, browning at the edges. Cold, dryness, poor aeration, can slow K down.
Zinc deficiency will cause light green dwarfed top growth.

Without a soil test, you're kind of operating in the dark with a razor knife.

I think most of the nitrogen/protein from beans/peas goes into the seed.
Uncooked, unfermented, and unsprouted the seed contains licine which will irritate the gut. I don't know about the plant itself. There may be something about sweet peas.
I don't know if that would effect the worms or not.
I'd try a little before trying a lot. Probably on the dry side if used in a bucket system.

I was reading about protein poisoning. The feed they sell is 12% crude protein. Too much protein and it ferments inside them. The worms secrete calcium to coat their food so there is a certain balance between calcium and protein. The smaller the container, the more important that becomes.
Not knowing the protein value of the bean/pea plant waste, now we're calculating things again. It's probably pretty low. Until I test the bucket method, I'd say to limit any inputs to what's known.