soil remineralization: process and discussion

[jaykush]

your fine, i feed azomite to my worms ALL the time, as well as local rock powders. in fact adding it to the wormbin is one of the best ways to utilize the rock powders.

you dont need glacial rock dust, everything you need is local. you just have to look.

 

[maryjohn]

Good words jay... Come to think of it the woods next door is abandoned quarry.

Absent a water source, how would I look for dust though? It's basically salt marsh here.

 

[jaykush]

what kind of rock did they quarry there? what is salt marsh consist of? saltwater?

 

[jjfoo]

I just started using this stuff. I've read peoples reports on it compared to not using it and it seems like it can help. I assume it depends on the condition of the soil as to how much it will change things.

I find that a strainer can disperse to stuff well. I use a little strainer that fits over a glass it has a fine screen.

 

[jaykush]

you are right, it does depend on your soil or soilless media, and how fertile it is. but for most people to get even a few benefits that it gives, is more than enough reason to use it. those recycling soil should consider it a must imo.

 

[maryjohn]

salt marsh is where the sea meets land rivers and forms a transition area. You'll have an estuary surrounded by marsh, muddy and silty. THe river will change direction with the tide.

I'm up on a hill, not sure what the quarry was. Granite? It's a city park now, never seen an actual quarry, but haven't screwed around back there.

 

[jaykush]

i would look into it further, we don't have those here in the hills. and consider finding another source as well. cant beat diversity, i get my rocks from multiple sources. ensuring a wide range of minerals. also different particle sizes play a role in the soils structure and long term mineral matter in the soil.

 

[CannaExists]

I am interested in this whole re-mineralization biz. I have a gravel quarry that sells rock dust from riverbeds for like a few dollars a ton, what is that like a half of peso for a 5 pound bag? Is life really this easy?

Despite that I haven't puchased any sort of rock powder yet, but the mix that Clackasaurus Rex posted catches my eye. Naomi's Organic Mineral Mix - 20% each: Azomite, Glacial Rock, Greensand, Soft Rock Phosphate & Limestone Sounds likes a mix of true unadulterated power.

What say you to this, jaykush?

http://www.oceangrown.com/thescience.htm

http://www.oceangrown.com/remineralize.htm

 

[jaykush]

we also have the river rock dust for about 3-4$ per ton. yes it is that easy. given your soil is full of life to process those minerals.

as for the sea solids. i believe in them, and believe that they work well. except i dont really promote buying bottled products and such. so i have conflicting issues. also i dont live near the ocean lol or i would give a go at making my own.

 

[DARC MIND]

i collected some river sand and dust from my near by mt baldy!!!
i will use it like i do sand for my soil and throw some in my worm bins
just thought id share =)

 

[Green&Gold]

i collected some river sand and dust from my near by mt baldy!!!
i will use it like i do sand for my soil and throw some in my worm bins
just thought id share =)

hey DM - You gave me an idea, I may try and collect some natural, fine, lake sand. I live absurdly near a major great lake... of course now that I'm thinking about it maybe its not such a good idea, unknown adulterants could be present due to my proximity to a major urban center -- ie. in the middle of it. But when I get to my farm again, I will take a trip to a local creek/rive/stream and see what I can find in the way of natural sand/rock dust.

 

[StreamMagic]

Great thread of magalictic proportions!! Im confused though, If one waters his plants from a river then would you dig up river muck to add to garden? Or the river sand? Im talking deep woods here, cant haul in rock dust, So what would one use to add minerals using stuff under your feet?

 

[jaykush]

If one waters his plants from a river then would you dig up river muck to add to garden? Or the river sand?

the key is to gather minerals, and you wont get much in the river muck. you are looking for rock dusts deposits on the banks of rivers( preferably from high mountains) sand is not fine enough, it needs to be almost like a powder for single season results as far as minerals go.

people in the Himalayas use what they call glacial milk, this is the water that comes from the glaciers, it is foggy with micronized minerals.

if your in deep woods you should be concentrating on your areas natural resources. that is assuming your talking guerilla growing.

as for under your feet, it really depends on where those feet are.

 

[StreamMagic]

I see, Im in east canada so i dont think i have those rock powders. yes I meant for guerrila gardening. If i think about it, Maybe its all i would EVER need to bring in!! Apply every 5 years wow, Insnt this the miracle fertilizer? The weight ratio would be almost the same because bag upon bag of peat,manure etc ect adds up weight fast..

 

[jaykush]

if you were smart you would use the natural resources rather than truck stuff in. instead of peat use native soil, amend it with organic matter and natural materials from the local area. and there is some kind of rock powders near you, the stream collecting is only one method. give a search around your plot for materials, this also helps you know the area better ( trails, game trails, water sources, etc...) you could not only save a lot of hard work. you could also save a lot of money on materials.

 

[*Journeyman*]

as for the sea solids. i believe in them, and believe that they work well. except i dont really promote buying bottled products and such. so i have conflicting issues. also i dont live near the ocean lol or i would give a go at making my own.

Sea solids suck if they are nothing more than concentrated seawater...cause of all that NaCl for starters. Trying to make your own sea solids is a waste of time. Just go buy Celtic Sea Salt if you wanna go that route but would not recommend it. The only sea 'solid' worth it's salt...lol...is Sea-Crop. Nothing can touch it for effectiveness and cost-to-benefit ratio in the whole sea solid 'world'...nothing . The next best thing you will find is GroPal and that is a distant second...far distant.

As for mineralization it's important, based on my research, to make sure you have a strong population of archaebacteria. These buggers are the primordial bacteria, such as thermophiles, and found in Biozome. These critters are probably the most adept at breaking down mineral compounds into their elements. Archaebacteria are like 1/10,000 the size of something like bacillus. Archaebacteria are things like those that live near fumaroles at the bottom of the ocean and feed off of minerals.

rock phosphate is slow to release, you'll get better results if your re using your soil.

Not if you used the micronized version...that stuff is very available.

Anyway...Sea-Crop, Biozome and a healthy humus rich soil, which to me means you already have a strong bacteria/fungi rich population...and lots of available carbon...heh heh, and think you'll see a difference. More to it than just that but a good start.

 

[jaykush]

Sea solids suck if they are nothing more than concentrated seawater...cause of all that NaCl for starters. Trying to make your own sea solids is a waste of time. Just go buy Celtic Sea Salt if you wanna go that route but would not recommend it. The only sea 'solid' worth it's salt...lol...is Sea-Crop. Nothing can touch it for effectiveness and cost-to-benefit ratio in the whole sea solid 'world'...nothing . The next best thing you will find is GroPal and that is a distant second...far distant.

lol whoa where did that come from. i dont even know what to say....

As for mineralization it's important, based on my research, to make sure you have a strong population of archaebacteria. These buggers are the primordial bacteria, such as thermophiles, and found in Biozome. These critters are probably the most adept at breaking down mineral compounds into their elements. Archaebacteria are like 1/10,000 the size of something like bacillus. Archaebacteria are things like those that live near fumaroles at the bottom of the ocean and feed off of minerals.

from my readings it is based off acids that fungi create to make the minerals available.

don't those ocean bacteria near the thermal vents live off sulfur? the ocean water is already mineral rich.

 

[jjfoo]

These buggers are the primordial bacteria, such as thermophiles, and found in Biozome.

thermofiles are things that live at really high temperatures like in volcanic vent areas. How would these help a plant or even cohabitat with a plant?

check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermophile

 

[*Journeyman*]

lol whoa where did that come from. i dont even know what to say....

Didn't mean it to come off that way but I think there's a lot of misinformation about sea solid products. You can tell I feel pretty strongly about it...lol. I've been dealing with high quality salt for human use in business for quite a few years now so have a good background such as overseeing analytical work for starters. It's only more recently I've gotten into using sea 'solids' for agriculture. Can't get into all the details of what I'm currently doing or reveal certain information about various products but will just say skip the salt

As for the thermophile thing...you guys are basically right but just wanted to provide an example of archaebacteria. The ocean has the highest concentration of archaebacteria and are a distinct class that are truly ancient. They evolved at a time early in the earth's development when the environment was very harsh thus developed certain 'functions' not found later down the evolutionary path. My research indicates archae are much better at mineral mobilization, especially metals, than anything else. Calcium in it's pure elemental form is a metal, so are potassium and sodium. Sure native soil has archaebacteria and just saying Biozome is a VERY unique and valuable product. They are also very good at breaking down long and complex carbon chains. You could probably put some fresh motor oil into a compost bin, add Biozome and if they had the other necessary supportive nutrients they would tear apart the oil into simple carbon compounds. They are a distinct class and provide activity in soil that neither 'normal' soil bacteria or fungi can or are at least much better at it. Archae will break down salts, and pesticides are salts, and other toxic compounds.

There's also quite a bit of misinformation about archae on the net, just like with sea solids. It is my understanding researchers are currently trying to classify archae into four distinct groups such as heat tolerant, cold tolerant, salt tolerant and methane producing.

The ocean also has about 2.5x the biological activity vs soil in the same volume so it is a valuable resource for agriculture IF the water is processed properly. The microbiological activity is quite interesting. Obviously the ocean is also an excellent source of minerals and trace elements...except the NaCl when it comes to growing. Some bacteria/phytoplankton have a biochemical method which enables them to live in ocean water...basically repelling NaCl...otherwise they would die.

Mainly I'm just focusing on humic/fulvic acids and leonardite at the moment though but that has taken me down a bunch of different peripheral roads.

 

[*Journeyman*]

As a follow up to the general classification of bacteria/fungi I think it important to break it down more and the activity/function of each. I read Roots Demystified recently and the author breaks down soil microlife into 4 distinct categories - bacteria, actinobacteria, algae and fungi. Bacteria being in the highest concentration, actinomycetes, next, then fungi and finally algae. I had to research actinomycetes and seem to have characteristics of both bacteria and fungi.

Then you have glomerales/glomale fungi. The discovery of glomulin, their exude, was made only fairly recently. It's soil superglue and has a life of about 7-42 years. Glomulin also accounts for about 1/3 of the world's stored carbon. Problem here is if you grow corps that have a strong symbiotic relationship with glomales then the possibility of tying up too much carbon over time. Something like mustards are a good crop to rotate to prevent this from happening.

Going back to the whole mineral discussion...I think it's good to look at more distinct classes of bacteria/fungi and their value/function in the soil food web in regards to mineralization/usage/chelation/availability and do believe, at this point, archae are the best at it.

One cool thing I ran across recently is the work of Gary Zimmer and his book The Biological Farmer. Have not gotten it yet but in talking to someone who deals with him and/or is very familiar with his work and seems he's got a hybrid salt/organic program that kicks butt. There's reasons why it works so well and actually builds soil and a healthy microlife population even with salts. Don't know if that info is in the book though