Aaronponic
Member
Now that you can get a medical marijuana card, it is many magnitudes easier for new people to enter the market. You don't have to be organized crime to grow a lot of plants.
- Status
Cannabinofil
Member
Just want to thank british bull dog for this:
quote:This guide is as much about dissuading people from commercial growing, as it is about educating those interested in doing it.
at 23k in my last grow(24 months ago), I was running amedium commercial op, my own ... got busted and now I'm trying to do the transition to a smaller canopy, I definatly miss the old days but have lost interest of any money ...
Prohibition is a lie, only poeple that own land with buildings that run diesel gens feeding 4ok make any real cash imh all the rest is survival, well with 20k I was sitting pretty but it'sover now
quote:This guide is as much about dissuading people from commercial growing, as it is about educating those interested in doing it.
at 23k in my last grow(24 months ago), I was running amedium commercial op, my own ... got busted and now I'm trying to do the transition to a smaller canopy, I definatly miss the old days but have lost interest of any money ...
Prohibition is a lie, only poeple that own land with buildings that run diesel gens feeding 4ok make any real cash imh all the rest is survival, well with 20k I was sitting pretty but it'sover now
you would be surrprised at how many growers don't smoke, also I have argued the crime aspect of growing many times before. Just because we think its ok to grow its still a crime in most states, and if your doing over 99 plants your considered commercial. I know what Charles is trying to get across, and what Yamaha is saying. Most of us are in Yamahas realm of growing or smaller, where charles is talking Big time warehouse beastie grows. If your interested in doing the big time you better be conected to people that can help you and protect you, way to much if your not organized, crime or not.Ganico said:
CocoNuts said:
im fucking glad to here you say that. im glad there are some of us out there who still have quality requirements.
trimming machines are a controversy, big growers are saying they cant do without. and the smaller growers look at it as greedy. just look how theys machines disturb the plant and smash it all up. you should just hash the whole group if thats your intention.
i can tell nugs that have been through a trimming machine a mile away. you can always tell how there 'cone' or 'nugget' shaped, but with the caps all torn apart like it was riped in 1/2.
im just a small squid in the sea but this is a great thread. some topics are opinions and experiance (rented house, multiple people, telling, not telling, help, no help) and its still situation based imo.
i for one dont understand the few who decide not to interact with the neighbors.
how wierd is that?
what do you do when they look at you?
just ignore them?
seames rude and wierd.
dosent mean you need to get to know them all.
i think alot of things fly. but only under certin circumstances. i understood that people "get used" to things, but if you need to pack up and move/ stop growing whatever, do it.
wafflehouselove
Member
Please learn to crawl before you walk.
jackhammer
New member
Shame on you guys who are growing commercially. Are you fuck’n stupid or what? You’re breaking the cardinal rule!!!FunkBomb said:Great thread and lots of good ideas. Before this debate gets too subjective we need definitions as this is the frist part of proper debate. First and foremost we need to define what the word "commercial" means.
(Dictionary.com Unabridged v1.1)
com·mer·cial :
(3) Prepared, done, or acting with sole or chief emphasis on salability, profit, or success: a commercial product.
(4) Able to yield or make a profit.
I think Charles Xavier you can relate more with definition 3. Yamaha_1fan I think you can relate to definition 4. Either way you are both correct. I think a fair grey area between the black and white could be the term "profit" as both definitions contain the word.
Lets keep this tought experiment rolling
-Funk
Relating any information about a commercial grow not only shows evidence of your grow, but also your intent to distribute which carries additional time. You guys who are talking about your huge grows are telling Leo exactly what he needs to start the investigation process against you. And I can say this with the up most certainty…You’ll probably never see him until he’s a knock’n at your door.
And if you’re going to laugh at me I can tell you this my friend…Unless you’re going through a butt load of proxy servers or have bought your computer from a private party, chances are that Leo can get what ever info about you that he needs at any time he feels like it and you’ll never know it. If you log on to this site, or any other website, the IP address from the computer that you are using is being broadcast all over the web right now. Even if you can hide your computer are you plugged into a modem? You got a lap top with a card? They can be tracked my friend. How do you think they catch pedophiles and child porn rings? Hmmm? The more you try to hide the more Leo will invest in finding out why you are hiding. And if you are above average with security Leo thinks all the better… they need a challenge in their job just like anyone else.
Don’t think for one minute that some of the peeps lurking here are not cops. If I was a cop I’d be going to all the grow sites to get tips and tricks on security.
You guys with the big grows just keep on flapp’n your lips. Leo will surely go after you before he comes for the little guy. It’s just like the original post said…Risk verses reward. The cops are not going to risk the man power for a little 10 lb harvest when they can go after you guy’s who claim to have hundreds of plants. The big busts look good on the news.
Quite frankly I don’t believe half of the people here, but for those of you who are for real SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!. It’s a good thread ( because it just sucked in a bunch of dopes who think they can speek freely about criminal activity ) but unfortunately with every reply Leo gets a little smarter.
The point is this... you are never going to know who the cops are, so why sit here and risk jail time talking about growing commercially. Kinda ironic how you are all wise when it comes to security yet you post your criminal intent on the internet.
DON'T GIVE LEO A FUCK'N INCH...HE'S NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU ONE...
jackhammer said:
bro, this server is located in amsterdamn. Do a little more research, then i want another report from you to see what you have learned... try smaller font not in bold. IF it makes sense and is true, THEN you can make it large bold font....
until then, posting on this site is safe unless you disclose any HARD evidence such as a picture of yourself, or perhaps the outside of your house including address.
jackhammer
New member
Sorry about the font Dude. I don't post too much here. As far as this or any other site being safe...you just keep thinking that rap.
Umberger20
New member
TGT,yamaha 1fan
TGT,yamaha 1fan
Ay TGT and Yamaha 1fan ya'll dudes got me confident and motivated with the things ya'll been posting..thanks for the morale boost fellas! Real Talk!!
TGT,yamaha 1fan
Ay TGT and Yamaha 1fan ya'll dudes got me confident and motivated with the things ya'll been posting..thanks for the morale boost fellas! Real Talk!!
B
British_Bulldog
Thanks to everyone for their props and contributions - this is turning into a definitive thread.
Keep the good info. flowing
Keep the good info. flowing
Y
yamaha_1fan
jackhammer said:
As suggested, you need to do a little more research. Most of use do use proxy servers. Second, the servers are located in a MJ friendly country. The US would find it very tough to access those servers. Third, if LEO is monitoring my internet usage, then I have already screwed up somewhere else.
How many busts have you heard of for MJ growers that resulted from their internet posts?
jackhammer
New member
I kinda figured I'd catch a little flack so here are some things to look at...As far as research goes my friends...I've done a lot but I am not trying to be the all knowing all seeing...Sites like this are great for info and you guy's who have the MMJ grows are lucky. For the rest of us we must be stealthy and keep our cards close to the breast.
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/agency/penalties.htm... more than 10 kgs hashish; 50 to 99 kg mixture, more than 1 kg of hashish oil; 50 to 99 plants:
FIRST OFENSE… Not more than 20 years ( Note that they don't have a minimum...this is because on a first offense you may skate with probation but you'll probably have to rat someone out)
If death or serious injury, not less than 20 years, not more than life
Fine $1 million if an individual, $5 million if other than an individual
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/18862/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Lantern_(software)..... Magic Lantern is keystroke logging software developed by the United States' Federal Bureau of Investigation. Magic Lantern was first reported in a column by Bob Sullivan of MSNBC on 20 November 2001[1] and also by Ted Birdis of the Associated Press.[2]
Unlike previous keystroke logger programs used by the FBI, Magic Lantern can reportedly be installed remotely, via an e-mail attachment or by exploiting common operating system vulnerabilities.[3][4] It has been variously described as a virus and a Trojan horse. It is not known how the program might store or communicate the recorded keystrokes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_Internet_Protocol_Address_Verifier... Computer and Internet Protocol Address Verifier
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Computer and Internet Protocol Address Verifier (CIPAV) is a secret data-gathering tool that the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) uses to track and gather location data on suspects under electronic surveillance. The software operates on the target computer much like spyware, where as it is unknown to the operator that the software has been installed and is monitoring and reporting on their activities.As it works, the CIPAV captures location-related information, such as: IP address, MAC address, open ports, running programs, operating system and installed application registration and version information, default web browser, and last visited URL.
Once that initial inventory is conducted, the CIPAV slips into the background and silently monitors all outbound communication, logging every IP address to which the computer connects, and time and date stamping each.
The CIPAV recently made headlines when its use was exposed in open court during an investigation of a teen who had made bomb threats against his high school. [1]
FBI sought approval to use CIPAV from United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court in terrorism or spying investigations.
They don't even need to get into your home now like the story below suggests.
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9741357-7.html
Feds use keylogger to thwart PGP, Hushmail
Posted by Declan McCullagh
A recent court case provides a rare glimpse into how some federal agents deal with encryption: by breaking into a suspect's home or office, implanting keystroke-logging software, and spying on what happens from afar.
An agent with the Drug Enforcement Administration persuaded a federal judge to authorize him to sneak into an Escondido, Calif., office believed to be a front for manufacturing the drug MDMA, or Ecstasy. The DEA received permission to copy the hard drives' contents and inject a keystroke logger into the computers.
That was necessary, according to DEA Agent Greg Coffey, because the suspects were using PGP and the encrypted Web e-mail service Hushmail.com. Coffey asserted that the DEA needed "real-time and meaningful access" to "monitor the keystrokes" for PGP and Hushmail passphrases.
The aggressive surveillance techniques employed by the DEA were part of a case that resulted in a ruling on Friday (PDF) by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which primarily dealt with Internet surveillance through a wiretap conducted on a PacBell (now AT&T) business DSL line used by the defendants. More on that below.
The DEA's pursuit of alleged Ecstasy manufacturers Mark Forrester and Dennis Alba differs from the first known police use of key-logging software, which snared reputed mobster Nicodemo Scarfo in 1999. In the Scarfo case, the FBI said in an unclassified affidavit (PDF) at the time, a keylogger that also was planted in a black bag job was disabled when the Internet connection became active.
Note requirement for 'real-time' access / Excerpt from DEA Agent Greg Coffey affidavit
Not much more is known about the DEA's keylogger in the Forrester-Alba case. An affidavit prepared by DEA agent Coffey in July 2001 asks for permission to enter the Escondido office "by breaking and entering, if necessary, for the purpose of installing, maintaining, and removing software tools" that "will enable agents to capture and record all keyboard keystrokes."
Note there's no evidence the DEA used the FBI's keystroke logger known as Magic Lantern, which reportedly can be installed remotely by taking advantage of operating system vulnerabilities without having agents physically break into an office. Keyloggers are hardly unusual nowadays, of course. In 2003, a former Boston College student was indicted for allegedly installing key-logging software on campus computers. More recent surveys indicate that plenty of workplaces are infected by spyware with key-logging abilities.
Who created PGP? It was actually Phil Zimmermann. / Excerpt from DEA Agent Greg Coffey affidavit
Keyloggers: Unresolved questions
The use of keyloggers by police, however, seems to be uncommon: A search on Monday through legal databases for terms such as "keylogger" turned up only the Scarfo and Forrester-Alba cases.
When used by police, they raise novel legal issues. That's because it's not entirely clear in what circumstances they're permitted under the U.S. Constitution and wiretap laws (which is why, in the Scarfo case, the FBI cleverly ducked this issue by, according to sworn testimony, disabling the keylogger when the modem was in use).
Even so, Scarfo's defense attorney claimed that a keylogger is akin to a "general warrant" permitting the DEA to seize "any record, including e-mail, simply because it was typed on a computer." General warrants are prohibited by the Fourth Amendment, which requires that warrants specify the "things to be seized." Another potential legal obstacle is whether wiretap laws apply--including their requirement of minimizing the interception of irrelevant conversations.
A federal judge eventually ruled that the unique design made the Scarfo logger permissible. But in the Forrester-Alba case, because Alba did not challenge the keylogger directly, the 9th Circuit never weighed in.
DEA claims that alleged Ecstasy/MDMA lab operators use encryption frequently / Excerpt from DEA Agent Greg Coffey affidavit
Eavesdropping without probable cause
Instead, the 9th Circuit spent much of its time evaluating whether government agents can eavesdrop on the Internet addresses Americans visit and the e-mail address of their correspondents without obtaining a search warrant first.
The judges' conclusion: federal agents did not violate the Fourth Amendment when spying on the Escondido DSL line without any evidence of criminal wrongdoing on his behalf, a legal standard known as probable cause. All the feds must do is prove the information is "relevant" to an ongoing investigation. The wiretap was done at PacBell's connection facility at 650 Robinson Rd. in San Diego. The DEA obtained what's known as a "mirror port," a feature that many network switches made by companies including Cisco Systems include for troubleshooting purposes.
A mirror port duplicates all the Internet traffic of one user to a second port on the same switch, without the suspect being alerted that electronic surveillance is under way. The scheme is probably easier to accomplish with a static Internet Protocol (IP) address, which is what the Escondido case involved.
According to the DEA, only IP addresses of Web sites (such as 216.239.122.200 instead of cnet.com) and e-mail headers are captured, and not the rest of the communication stream. That, they argue, makes it akin to existing precedent dealing with pen registers, which capture telephone numbers dialed and are permitted without any proof of probable cause of wrongdoing.
The 9th Circuit agreed, ruling on Friday that "e-mail and Internet users have no expectation of privacy in the To/From addresses of their messages or the IP addresses of the websites they visit because they should know that these messages are sent and these IP addresses are accessed through the equipment of their Internet service provider and other third parties." This follows the lead of a Massachusetts judge who said much the same thing in November 2005.
Both Forrester and Alba were sentenced to 30 years in prison (PDF) on charges including conspiracy to manufacture and distribute Ecstasy. In a decision made on unrelated grounds, however, the 9th Circuit reversed Forrester's conviction and partially reversed Alba's. Forrester faces retrial.
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/agency/penalties.htm... more than 10 kgs hashish; 50 to 99 kg mixture, more than 1 kg of hashish oil; 50 to 99 plants:
FIRST OFENSE… Not more than 20 years ( Note that they don't have a minimum...this is because on a first offense you may skate with probation but you'll probably have to rat someone out)
If death or serious injury, not less than 20 years, not more than life
Fine $1 million if an individual, $5 million if other than an individual
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/18862/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Lantern_(software)..... Magic Lantern is keystroke logging software developed by the United States' Federal Bureau of Investigation. Magic Lantern was first reported in a column by Bob Sullivan of MSNBC on 20 November 2001[1] and also by Ted Birdis of the Associated Press.[2]
Unlike previous keystroke logger programs used by the FBI, Magic Lantern can reportedly be installed remotely, via an e-mail attachment or by exploiting common operating system vulnerabilities.[3][4] It has been variously described as a virus and a Trojan horse. It is not known how the program might store or communicate the recorded keystrokes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_Internet_Protocol_Address_Verifier... Computer and Internet Protocol Address Verifier
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Computer and Internet Protocol Address Verifier (CIPAV) is a secret data-gathering tool that the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) uses to track and gather location data on suspects under electronic surveillance. The software operates on the target computer much like spyware, where as it is unknown to the operator that the software has been installed and is monitoring and reporting on their activities.As it works, the CIPAV captures location-related information, such as: IP address, MAC address, open ports, running programs, operating system and installed application registration and version information, default web browser, and last visited URL.
Once that initial inventory is conducted, the CIPAV slips into the background and silently monitors all outbound communication, logging every IP address to which the computer connects, and time and date stamping each.
The CIPAV recently made headlines when its use was exposed in open court during an investigation of a teen who had made bomb threats against his high school. [1]
FBI sought approval to use CIPAV from United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court in terrorism or spying investigations.
They don't even need to get into your home now like the story below suggests.
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9741357-7.html
Feds use keylogger to thwart PGP, Hushmail
Posted by Declan McCullagh
A recent court case provides a rare glimpse into how some federal agents deal with encryption: by breaking into a suspect's home or office, implanting keystroke-logging software, and spying on what happens from afar.
An agent with the Drug Enforcement Administration persuaded a federal judge to authorize him to sneak into an Escondido, Calif., office believed to be a front for manufacturing the drug MDMA, or Ecstasy. The DEA received permission to copy the hard drives' contents and inject a keystroke logger into the computers.
That was necessary, according to DEA Agent Greg Coffey, because the suspects were using PGP and the encrypted Web e-mail service Hushmail.com. Coffey asserted that the DEA needed "real-time and meaningful access" to "monitor the keystrokes" for PGP and Hushmail passphrases.
The aggressive surveillance techniques employed by the DEA were part of a case that resulted in a ruling on Friday (PDF) by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which primarily dealt with Internet surveillance through a wiretap conducted on a PacBell (now AT&T) business DSL line used by the defendants. More on that below.
The DEA's pursuit of alleged Ecstasy manufacturers Mark Forrester and Dennis Alba differs from the first known police use of key-logging software, which snared reputed mobster Nicodemo Scarfo in 1999. In the Scarfo case, the FBI said in an unclassified affidavit (PDF) at the time, a keylogger that also was planted in a black bag job was disabled when the Internet connection became active.
Note requirement for 'real-time' access / Excerpt from DEA Agent Greg Coffey affidavit
Not much more is known about the DEA's keylogger in the Forrester-Alba case. An affidavit prepared by DEA agent Coffey in July 2001 asks for permission to enter the Escondido office "by breaking and entering, if necessary, for the purpose of installing, maintaining, and removing software tools" that "will enable agents to capture and record all keyboard keystrokes."
Note there's no evidence the DEA used the FBI's keystroke logger known as Magic Lantern, which reportedly can be installed remotely by taking advantage of operating system vulnerabilities without having agents physically break into an office. Keyloggers are hardly unusual nowadays, of course. In 2003, a former Boston College student was indicted for allegedly installing key-logging software on campus computers. More recent surveys indicate that plenty of workplaces are infected by spyware with key-logging abilities.
Who created PGP? It was actually Phil Zimmermann. / Excerpt from DEA Agent Greg Coffey affidavit
Keyloggers: Unresolved questions
The use of keyloggers by police, however, seems to be uncommon: A search on Monday through legal databases for terms such as "keylogger" turned up only the Scarfo and Forrester-Alba cases.
When used by police, they raise novel legal issues. That's because it's not entirely clear in what circumstances they're permitted under the U.S. Constitution and wiretap laws (which is why, in the Scarfo case, the FBI cleverly ducked this issue by, according to sworn testimony, disabling the keylogger when the modem was in use).
Even so, Scarfo's defense attorney claimed that a keylogger is akin to a "general warrant" permitting the DEA to seize "any record, including e-mail, simply because it was typed on a computer." General warrants are prohibited by the Fourth Amendment, which requires that warrants specify the "things to be seized." Another potential legal obstacle is whether wiretap laws apply--including their requirement of minimizing the interception of irrelevant conversations.
A federal judge eventually ruled that the unique design made the Scarfo logger permissible. But in the Forrester-Alba case, because Alba did not challenge the keylogger directly, the 9th Circuit never weighed in.
DEA claims that alleged Ecstasy/MDMA lab operators use encryption frequently / Excerpt from DEA Agent Greg Coffey affidavit
Eavesdropping without probable cause
Instead, the 9th Circuit spent much of its time evaluating whether government agents can eavesdrop on the Internet addresses Americans visit and the e-mail address of their correspondents without obtaining a search warrant first.
The judges' conclusion: federal agents did not violate the Fourth Amendment when spying on the Escondido DSL line without any evidence of criminal wrongdoing on his behalf, a legal standard known as probable cause. All the feds must do is prove the information is "relevant" to an ongoing investigation. The wiretap was done at PacBell's connection facility at 650 Robinson Rd. in San Diego. The DEA obtained what's known as a "mirror port," a feature that many network switches made by companies including Cisco Systems include for troubleshooting purposes.
A mirror port duplicates all the Internet traffic of one user to a second port on the same switch, without the suspect being alerted that electronic surveillance is under way. The scheme is probably easier to accomplish with a static Internet Protocol (IP) address, which is what the Escondido case involved.
According to the DEA, only IP addresses of Web sites (such as 216.239.122.200 instead of cnet.com) and e-mail headers are captured, and not the rest of the communication stream. That, they argue, makes it akin to existing precedent dealing with pen registers, which capture telephone numbers dialed and are permitted without any proof of probable cause of wrongdoing.
The 9th Circuit agreed, ruling on Friday that "e-mail and Internet users have no expectation of privacy in the To/From addresses of their messages or the IP addresses of the websites they visit because they should know that these messages are sent and these IP addresses are accessed through the equipment of their Internet service provider and other third parties." This follows the lead of a Massachusetts judge who said much the same thing in November 2005.
Both Forrester and Alba were sentenced to 30 years in prison (PDF) on charges including conspiracy to manufacture and distribute Ecstasy. In a decision made on unrelated grounds, however, the 9th Circuit reversed Forrester's conviction and partially reversed Alba's. Forrester faces retrial.
Last edited:
Umberger20
New member
i think this post has sticky potential if input keeps getting added.
wafflehouselove
Member
sticky for the Feds! Thanx for ruining it for everyone.
B
Brad
here is some good info in this thread too check it out.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72644&page=1&pp=40
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72644&page=1&pp=40
indicapimp
Member
Well, you are somewhat accurate, but with the pedophiles most are sharing data off of their hard drives (Uploading and Downloading) Sic Fucks!!!. They have a network setup among themselves for file sharing and telnet which gives a bit more access directly to one's computer. As far as an IP address, most individuals do not have static IP addresses. They change very frequently from your Internet Service Provider but You Mac Address is associated with any given IP Address they (ISP) provide you i.e. your Wireless Router at your house provides that info back to the ISP.jackhammer said:
If you are sitting at a Starbucks chatting like I am now, not so much. Couple of thing's: I would not access this site direct from a grow location and I definitely not double click on any of your DEA or DOJ external links. NEVER, EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What was the deal with OG, wasn't that related to seed purchases and shipping Clones?
As far as key logging, i would have to agree with Yamaha_1. If they have that type of search warrant on you to get Federal Wire tap then you are much further down the road than you would want to be.
I would be more on the cautious and very careful side than lack of interest but I love the fact that this server is in Amsterdam! They are not even excepting US dollars anymore over there.
PS I think this guy is a COP!!!!! 5 post talking shit!!! Fuck off He is very angry in his post, Hater.....
- Status
