smart meters

[Rednick]

Actually they would have to use the info from the meter as part of reasonable cause to get a warrant so that information would come out in legal proceedings.

I'm planning a warehouse grow. Just 2K, but still two flowering rooms. Planning on calling the power company, and telling them I'd like to put a web site server system in the warehouse with 6 computers with 1K power supplies each, and asking them if there is enough power to do it.

Figure that should put them off the track.

JG

You're planning alright!
Planning to fail!

I think you better go back to the drawing board and do some more research...Brainstorm, ect...
You just threw up a bunch of red flags IMO.


Learn up about warehouse power before you go asking questions to the power company.

 

[JG's Ghost]

Well in a perfect world this would be true but more often then not they say they got an anonymous tip from an informant or they will come do a knock & talk and scare people into letting them inside who don't know their constitutional rights very well. In theory there should be much more transparency about who is doing what and why but in the real world LEO rarely follows these rules many of us put so much faith in. Called being "above the law" round these parts which is what they are unfortunately for us. Be safe in your grow and watch those plant numbers whatever you do don't exceed 100 it's just not worth it man when you can grow fewer larger plants instead of more smaller ones.

I would assume that anyone posting on this site knows their rights, or at least they should.

If the power companies are now able to identify a pattern of 12/12 usage, and are informing LEO of that information the anon. informant scam will not cut it for getting a warrant. How would some random informant have that info?

Anyone using proper smell control should not be afraid of a knock, and talk. As a matter of fact they don't even have to answer the door.

I agree with keeping plant numbers down. Where i live over 25 plants is considered prima facia evidence of intent to distribute.

The problem I'll run into is although I'm only going to run 9 plants per 1000 watts I'll have 2 identical flowering rooms. That brings it to 18 plants, but I'll also have another 9 in the cloning/veg stage which brings me to 27.

JG

 

[JG's Ghost]

You're planning alright!
Planning to fail!

I think you better go back to the drawing board and do some more research...Brainstorm, ect...
You just threw up a bunch of red flags IMO.


Learn up about warehouse power before you go asking questions to the power company.

I'm always interested in more info. What red flags are you referring to?

This warehouse actually has more power fed to it than my home does. It has A/C, and an additional unused 45 amp 220 circuit as well as 5 15 amp 110 circuits. I know there is enough power. Just want to keep the power company from getting nosy.

I just love these posters who intimate they know something you don't, but give no details.

JG

 

[Donald Trump]

You don't use a warehouse for such minimal wattage. If you register your business with the county, you will have inspections. Even if you don't, you will be inspected by the landlord if you don't own your own building. You don't need to have any grows in the open. You need to build big rooms and have secure doors. The power company doesn't give a damn about what you do, they just want your money. If it's a business you will have to register it with the county. This is an important step because it's one of the first things cops look into when they are investigating you. If it's for 'personal use' then you don't have to register with the county. However, you better have one good reason and cover-up for using high electricity for personal use.

If you are just talking about renting a small building and running under 5-10k then that's different. You could do that, but you will have inspections from landlords, so you need to make sure you have a well built room inside that's locked up good.

 

[JG's Ghost]

You don't use a warehouse for such minimal wattage. If you register your business with the county, you will have inspections. Even if you don't, you will be inspected by the landlord if you don't own your own building. You don't need to have any grows in the open. You need to build big rooms and have secure doors. The power company doesn't give a damn about what you do, they just want your money. If it's a business you will have to register it with the county. This is an important step because it's one of the first things cops look into when they are investigating you.

The warehouse is rented by a non-profit corporation, and the electric the same. It is a condo warehouse development where owners, and renters do everything from lawn services to race car building. The condo pres., and landlord has already told me when the fire inspector comes every year, and that all the businesses lock their doors when he shows up because he oversteps his authority, and starts asking about building codes, etc.. He also told me as long as I don't put up a business sign the inspector wont even bother to knock. It's a two floor warehouse. 500 square feet per floor, and I plan on doing auto restorations on the bottom floor.
The landlord has a key to get in the ground floor, but not the top. He has also made it clear he doesn't give a shit what I do there as long as the rent is on time.

JG

 

[Graham Purwatt]

well,i'm considering keeping a dark area to put my plants in for 12 hours.i already usually run a perpetual grow so i can harvest once a month so i'll just have to swap crops every 12 hours if i go that route.25 plants here is a minimum mandatory 5 years here as well. what i'm trying to decide right now is if i should run the 1k or my 600 watter 24 hours a day.i think i'd feel safer with the 6 but i sure would rather run the 1k.with 2 fans and some floros for veg that will put me at around 1300 watts,24/7.with the 6,that'd put me around 900 watts,24/7.i'm sweating the meters,knowing i may be over paranoid but the law here do all they can to catch anyone they can. i know they train the electric company employees to help spot grows.there have been quite a few smaller grows busted in the last few years from the electric company

 

[Donald Trump]

go ahead and run your 1k if you want.. just keep plants under 25. that's not a lot of power.

 

[Rednick]

Her's a link to the company whose meters were recently installed at my home.

http://www.silverspringnet.com/

Although it does not come right out, and say they can tell when you are running 12/12 it does indicate that they can.

Of course they can, but can they tell if you are running a 1k heater, vs a 1k mag ballast, vs a 1k Jacuzzi heater?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I think SOTF already acknowledged new appliances.

 

[Guest 88950]

GP

to avoid them detecting a 12/12 cycle run 2 rooms on 1 ballast so as one room goes off the other goes on and run vert 600's.

 

[Graham Purwatt]

here's something i found,from 2005 what i understand of it, it totally agrees that they can or will soon be able to tell exactly what's what for other reasons than catching growers but it explains the different signatures of different things
.heres the scary part "
Active research is being carried out to use signal processing means to differentiate different types of loads used simultaneously in the same ac mains
"

http://www.lucente.us/pubs/2005-IEEE-PESC-preprint.pdf

 

[Graham Purwatt]

In some states, utilities are legally restrained from releasing personally identifying
information to a third party without written consent from the customer [6]. However,
most states do not have standard definitions of “personally identifying information,” or
formal privacy policies addressing the proper use of power data [7]. The consumer has
no recourse but to simply trust the utility itself not to abuse the information which could​

be gleaned from the detailed metering; and as indicated by the lawsuits against utilities in

the wake of smart meter installations [8], such trust in the good intent of utilities is not
likely to be forthcoming.
On top of that, large exceptions are made for law enforcement. In at least one
case, this loophole has led to extensive police perusal of numerous customers' usage data,
looking for usage they consider “unusual.” This exception even went so far as law
enforcement having its own password to the utility's database [9]. The police are
required to have a warrant to monitor the phone lines going into a home but are not
currently constrained legally from watching through the power lines, despite the​

constitutionally questionable nature of such action

Existing laws can only discourage, not prevent, abuses by individuals within the
utility or law enforcement – or by hackers with the ability to compromise the utility's data
storage, communication with the meters, or even the meters themselves. Attempts at
digital protections of the measured data are in place but are severely flawed. Even as
smart meters are beginning to be deployed across the country, gaping security holes are
being uncovered. Several vulnerabilities have been reported in AMI devices, allowing an
attacker (with physical access to the device) to obtain the usage data and network
authentication keys, giving the attacker access to all user data being transmitted from
other devices as well [10]. The protocols on which the wireless communication of
metering data takes place also have known vulnerabilities [11], so an attacker need not​

have physical access to a meter to be able to intercept data in transmission.

Such paltry protections are entirely inadequate for the preservation of individual​

privacy. Moreover, even if we assume digital protections can prevent unauthorized

parties from hijacking usage information from the meter, data transmission system, or
data storage – and that legal protections of the data will prevent misuse or release of
usage information – nothing is to stop someone from intercepting the power signal itself
except for the minor inconvenience of concealing the monitoring device. In order to
obscure this information from all avenues of abuse, we must go to the source, preventing
that information from being carried by the power signal at all. To do so, we must first
examine how NILM can be used to extract personal information from a power signal.​

How Personal Information Is Extracted​

Current and developing techniques for NILM are fairly diverse in approach.
Some of the more popular techniques use genetic algorithms to develop profiles for
different devices or use clustering algorithms to link patterns in the signal to other
patterns caused by the same (or similar) devices. However, all depend on the analysis of
one or more features of the power signal: real power, reactive power, the resulting power
factor, various harmonics, etc. Inferences about the sources of the signal are made based
on the values (and changes in the values) of these features. Use of a greater number of
features allows for more precise identification of disaggregated appliances or machines,
as there can be a great deal of overlap between different devices on some features. For
example, the real power consumption of a blow-dryer might be very similar to the real
power consumption of a toaster; but if the reactive power is factored into the feature
profile for each device, the inductive motor of the blow-dryer can easily be differentiated
from the toaster's heating elements.
7
Information can be gleaned from the different features of a power signal in a
variety of ways. Figure 2 shows a breakdown of some basic approaches. In this
framework, features can be analyzed based on​

•​

Instantaneous or average value​

•​

Changes in the value of the feature
These values can be evaluated based on​

•​

The magnitude of the value (or change) itself​

•​

The time at which the value or change was measured.
This framework helps to separate specific methods of extracting personal
information from the power signal into rough categories and allows for the development
of targeted defenses against those categories. A defense against one category of attack
will not necessarily protect against an attack from another category. For example,
altering the net power factor of a facility would help to disguise its loads from
instantaneous/average-value-based extraction techniques but would provide little help
against techniques based on changes in power factor.
While the steady state values of applicable features can give some information
about their source, the points where feature values change are more commonly used when
attempting to disaggregate a collection of loads. The change in the value of the feature is
generally indicative of some state change of an individual load and so gives specific
information about that load's contribution to the aggregate signal. Again, these changes
can be analyzed based on magnitude or on the time at which they occur (either absolute
8
time or in the context of some sort of periodic signal).
In order to obscure the potentially revealing information inadvertently encoded in
the power signal, these features must be modified. An effective technological defense
against unauthorized monitoring combines various techniques to hide the identifying​

characteristics in both the levels and changes in each applicable feature.

 

[Graham Purwatt]

ssh,i plan on running 2 rooms,one always on and one always off with the 1k.from what i've read,there is still a power spike with a flip flop,i need to avoid that power spike so i guess i'll be moving plants every 12 hours forever. i'm too big of a pussy to run enough plants to make a vert setup worthwhile,25 here is 5 years mandatory. hell i'm cutting back to probably 5 plants per crop. hell, i might just move in with you instead, need a roommate?lol

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Sounds like a plan. Wonder if a line conditioner might squelch the spike?

 

[doublejj]

SMUD = city owned

SMUD = city owned

The letter I posted came from SMUD, it's owned by the city. I don't think they would resist any request from leo!

All I know is, they compare me with my neighbors elect usage on a regular basis. And that I use 378% more!

That's for 4000w grow. 3000w flower room (12/12) & 1000w veg room (24)

peace
doublejj

 

[GeorgeWBush]

Once the grid is in place, it will be mandatory for all new appliances to have SMART components in them. It's another means of control and another way to monitor consumers. But I'm sure there will be ways around it, and I'm sure growers will be among the first to do so.

 

[SOTF420]

I read something awhile ago somewhere on here about disabling the ability of the appliance or whatever it may be to communicate with the smart meter. Seems the knowledge is out there and from what I recall is was not that difficult so might be looking into. I fucking hate smart meters and big brother in general for that matter! Nosy fuckers!

Also before I forget, having mentioned the power spike at start-up of HID ballasts (namely HPS) the power spike is much less noticeable with a digital HID ballasts compared to the old standard ones. BUT it's easier for them to detect the digital ballast based on it's electronic signature and the frequency it operates at along with it's newer digital components so it's a trade-off.

 

[Donald Trump]

my power doesn't seem to go out as much, or as long since i've had a smart meter. About 3-4 years now.

 

[SOTF420]

Cause they don't wanna mess up your flowering cycle bro

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I don't know if our meters are 'smart' but they don't require readers traipsing the hood. Since the old days, our power goes out for hours at a time. I bet it's been knocked off 4 times in the last 6 months. Battery-backup timers are really helpful in situations like mine.