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Smart Meters To Nip Illegal Practice In The Bud

Chester

Chester

Member
When an AC motor starts-up, it pulls a very high current (on the name-plate as locked rotor current or LRC) for a very short time (milliseconds) before settling-in to the running current.

That causes the lights to dim with the usual and customary residential service entrance wiring. The power factor doesn't influence that light dimming much.

If you really wanted to hide your inductive load in a residential area, then you could measure or calculate your power factor and possibly consider adding some power factor correction capacitors.

Reference links for power factor: Wikipedia, and how to calculate the capacitive load required to make the PF correction.

A fair number of modern AC motors have both a starting capacitor and a running capacitor just for the power factor correction. You can look-up the rated power factor for your ballasts (mine are 0.9 PF) and calculate the required capacitors to make a power factor correction.

I wouldn't bother unless the utility bitched about your low PF (and 0.9 isn't terribly low).

My "smart meter" does display both the peak "kVars" and peak kilowatts. And they don't charge me for the kVars. (yet)


:cool:
 
H

highgrade

Member
supermanlives said:
we are going to get smart meters in san diego within a few months . i just got a notice. DAMN
Click to expand...

They (PG&E) just came by the house yesterday to install one. All I did was tell they guy I didn't want it.....no problem. Just have to be there when they show up to change it out. Seems to still be optional.
 
M

mrdizzle

Member
Mr. Mountain said:
Not so. Whenever you run motors, compressors, A/C units and HID ballasts with traditional (core/coil) magnetic ballasts you get INDUCTIVE LAG. Ever notice the ceiling lights dim when your portable A/C kicks on? That is INDUCTIVE LAG.

In an inductive circuit current and voltage are out of phase (with voltage leading) by 90 deg or 1/4 cycle (in a perfect inductor.)

I can come to your neighborhood and with the right test equipment, measure the power quality and determine if there is an unusual amount of reactive power.

No "normal" residence will have large inductive lag. You only see this in machine shops/industrial spaces.

I would imagine the smart meters only make this easier.

Power companies are beginning to charge additional fees to industrial operations which have large inductive lag. Because the out of phase power going back into the grid screws up power quality.


Mr. M
Click to expand...

do digital ballast have a inductive lag, is there anything you can do to stop it? I have heard some talk of power conditioners
 
S

SB7

Member
Chester "you can relax"
These BC Hydo meters will allow "minute by minute read out of power consumption" and they are are implementing peak demand increase in rates so that will also be an installed option. ( Time of use)

This sucks as it will be very hard to stay under the radar after these are installed.

SB7
 
S

Short Ryder

Ontario has already implemented smart meters around Toronto to thunderbay, I'm not to pissed about my power consumption seeing as mine uses less then an x-box 360 (yay technical loop holes!) but I am pissed because i work for a wireless company and hydro registered a licensed frequency meaning no one else can use it because they don't have the proper info to get to that frequency.
and they are still choosing to monopolize all frequencies from 900 all the way up to 5.8 (full legal operation frequencies) blowing our wireless customers high and dry and pissed
if anyone is really sketch of this play around with elements solar, wind, water.
One of my buddies has a stream running through his backyard and decided to build a generating station on it it's only about 12ft wide and 8ft high but he's become completely independent he's still hooked up but only incase of emergency and more often then not ends up selling power back to hydro.
 
S

Short Ryder

Chester said:
When an AC motor starts-up, it pulls a very high current (on the name-plate as locked rotor current or LRC) for a very short time (milliseconds) before settling-in to the running current.

That causes the lights to dim with the usual and customary residential service entrance wiring. The power factor doesn't influence that light dimming much.

If you really wanted to hide your inductive load in a residential area, then you could measure or calculate your power factor and possibly consider adding some power factor correction capacitors.

Reference links for power factor: Wikipedia, and how to calculate the capacitive load required to make the PF correction.

A fair number of modern AC motors have both a starting capacitor and a running capacitor just for the power factor correction. You can look-up the rated power factor for your ballasts (mine are 0.9 PF) and calculate the required capacitors to make a power factor correction.

I wouldn't bother unless the utility bitched about your low PF (and 0.9 isn't terribly low).

My "smart meter" does display both the peak "kVars" and peak kilowatts. And they don't charge me for the kVars. (yet)


:cool:
Click to expand...
Quit using low quality copperwire?
Not sure but i do know the better quality of the wire the less line attenuation you have from the system side
 
B

Balance

Member
HID circuits already have a capacitor, besides you're never going to get an inductive load sine wave to look like a resistive load sine wave with power factor correction.

Mr. M is correct, an oscilliscope can easily detect a grow from the pole. But will Leo pay the utility to come out and do that? And, if it required a warrent, they'd just kick in the door.

BC Hydro obviously cannot do this with the digital meters they have installed on residences. However they can easily detect theft because the missing killowatts will drop their reactive power readings.

This definately screws people in BC, as they are already on rationed power. It screws people stealing power in the States as well, when they complete the switch to digital meters. The story is assuming most power thieves are growing.
 
W

White-rhino

Member
Grass Lands said:
same here bro...up until i started my flip...and tell me, isn't it a pain in the ass to be home when you have something else going on...hahaha...we growers will do whatever it take to bring in a crop...
Click to expand...

Same here. Its just as easy as having a timer and being there to make sure the timer works. Once in a whle I screw up and sleep through but it still seems to work better than timers for me, and the plants :)
 
P

phrike

Member
Articles such as this always seem to equate grow ops with power theft.

They confuse the issue purposely. Many people reading the article conclude that all grow ops steal electric and that the theft poses a danger to the public, therefore marijuana is a public danger and must continue to be prohibited.
 
C

cfltime

Member
We have an electric meter with this metal round plate that spins round and round. That isnt a smart meter is it?

BUT...On our bill it says smart meter and a figure or something.
We got ComEd.

Anyone else have ComEd?

This is probably a dumb question but, I shouldn't worry a whole lot with a 150HPS should I? What, with the 12/12 schedule and all? I mean, our bill is high. Like 230. But the AC runs all day. And we have two computers that run all day and night. Well, I turn mine off.

I seen the smart digital read out meters though. A relative has one. Oh and we always pay our bill.
 
T

Tactician

Member
If your 10 light garden needs to be masked, use a custom timer/PLC controller. For example, the timer/plc would come on at 8:01Am and go off at 7:57PM. Next day, on 8:05, off 8:00, next day on 7:58, off 8:03. Then a week later, change from 8:00AM on to around 7:30AM. So many timing options for a PLC. During the flower cycle, not all 10 lights have to be on. Make sure between 6 and 8 lights are always on, maybe during an hour, turn off half the lights. This probably wouldn't work with vertical bulb gardens, only horizontal/shades. Another way to turn off a few lights here and there, use a digital temp controller wired to a PLC. Lights can be turn off as a co2 burner turns on. When burner turns off, lights come back on, after 15 min delay. Then rotate to another 2 lights to turn off. During the last hour of light, turn off 1 or 2 lights at various intervals. This would disguise a 10KW surge for 12 hours every day.
 
W

wilburn

Member
When you come home to your domicile, with everything turned off while you were away, what happens. Five or six lights go on, stay on, TV, stereo, maybe you cook, or shower. Think about the amount of volts you pull! 1K? 3K?

It's not so much about power surges as it is about power consumption as per your neighbors usages.
 
supermanlives

supermanlives

Active member
Veteran
highgrade said:
They (PG&E) just came by the house yesterday to install one. All I did was tell they guy I didn't want it.....no problem. Just have to be there when they show up to change it out. Seems to still be optional.
Click to expand...

in the letter we got it said the meters aint optiional. eventually they want one in every household and there aint nothing we can do.i have sdge tho sandiego gas and electric
 
stink.whistler

stink.whistler

Member
wilburn said:
When you come home to your domicile, with everything turned off while you were away, what happens. Five or six lights go on, stay on, TV, stereo, maybe you cook, or shower. Think about the amount of volts you pull! 1K? 3K?

It's not so much about power surges as it is about power consumption as per your neighbors usages.
Click to expand...

Yes, true - for the old style meters. Smart meters give a much more detailed view than just gross usage, however.

Which is why people are worried.
 
W

wilburn

Member
Originally Posted by wilburn
When you come home to your domicile, with everything turned off while you were away, what happens. Five or six lights go on, stay on, TV, stereo, maybe you cook, or shower. Think about the amount of volts you pull! 1K? 3K?

It's not so much about power surges as it is about power consumption as per your neighbors usages.
stink.whistler said:
Yes, true - for the old style meters. Smart meters give a much more detailed view than just gross usage, however.

Which is why people are worried.
Click to expand...

Very true, stinky. My point is smart meters have the ability to track significant upswings in power usages. These upswings need to be reviewed in terms of normal power usage as per my post above.

The issue of smart meter accuracy has not been resolved neither has the privacy issues regarding the wireless transmission of their data.

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/03/new-smart-meters-energy-use-put-privacy-risk

"The ebb and flow of gas and electricity into your home contains surprisingly detailed information about your daily life. Energy usage data, measured moment by moment, allows the reconstruction of a household's activities: when people wake up, when they come home, when they go on vacation, and maybe even when they take a hot bath."

Several CA jurisdictions are demanding moratoriums on their installations. This invasive data can be subpoenaed!

These upswings can be viewed as either "interesting" or normal when it comes to a grow op or our daily power usage. Either way, the consumer/grower gains nothing from these installations.
 
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