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Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

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bsgospel

Bat Macumba
Veteran
i was talking gypsum and ca with another buddy and he told me this in regards to "too much gypsum/ca?" :

what yall say?

Hmmm....yes and no? Combining a couple sources here; It's necessary to treat K and Mg as important as Ca but Ca needs to be strong throughout the entire project for them (K/Mg) to respond and perform as well as they can. Ca is for sustaining fertility. If you have a huge canvas of Ca, you can roll out K in spades (and it will be utilized way quicker.) Mg being the catalyst between them and other elements. It does a bunch on its own with less- but if you let it take too many of the spots where Ca should be, it's incredibly hard to knock off.
"Magnesium is only 24 parts in the total of 900 or more parts o± in either of the two kinds of chlorophyll." But without magnesium- those hemes are completely useless.

Yes- the ratio of Ca to K would be lower during moments like those- but as a function of raising the K and leaving the Ca to operate on high.

And yes- they both help with cells/walls but they both contribute to strength/turbidity/what have you. K and Na are constantly moving in and out of cells and as such, without K, transfer pumps would not displace waste or communicate other elements/proteins between cells. Calcium is doing much of the signalling of these events (purportedly.) Without Ca to direct traffic- the whole thing is at a standstill.

I think your buddy is 95% right but for just minutely different reasons/wording.
 

led05

Chasing The Present
Ask SlowN what the number one element lacking in all soil reports he has ever done. We are talking thousands.......... Ca. At 80-85% recommend Ca in your base saturation, you have to try to over due it. Even then, it's not too much Ca, it's too little other elements being pushed out. I have never seen in person, or in a book, what Ca excess looks like. So your buddy that says too much gypsum, I say No way Jose.:tiphat:

Easy is mostly right..... however....

I gotta say, too much Ca - very, very unlikely, too much Gypsum is possible if it's pushed out the others too much and especially during the later half of flowering (whether that's 8 weeks or 16 weeks, very different for different strains) .

You're friend AM is mostly correct too, but that's just it, there's so much going on unique to each of our situations that understanding the why is the only way to role

:0

Easy, tell me more about your soil meter - cost, brand, how to get - thank you
 

EasyGoing

Member
I can't find the exact model for you, this is the reference in my email.
http://www.novanna.co.uk/soil-advisory-kit

My lights go on at 9pm, and the meter is in the room. I will snap a picture and do more research if I remember. I actually read your first request, but have yet to remember to scope it out when the lights are on. Hopefully I will get back to you soon.
 

led05

Chasing The Present
I can't find the exact model for you, this is the reference in my email.
https://www.novanna.co.uk/soil-advisory-kit

My lights go on at 9pm, and the meter is in the room. I will snap a picture and do more research if I remember. I actually read your first request, but have yet to remember to scope it out when the lights are on. Hopefully I will get back to you soon.


thanks, it's possible I could use some work with my patience :)
 

led05

Chasing The Present
17 days from seed into soil, not emergence

17 days from seed into soil, not emergence

Does anyone else obsess over their roots like I do.....?

I know this plant is off on the right path..... I may be creating a custom potting line from years of trial & error and documented studies...

The right balance of Ca and aminos early on do this too - the little bit of brown is because I let dry out too much, 300ml pots can do that

 

growingcrazy

Well-known member
Veteran
Nice roots!

I just transplanted my outdoor starts from 50 cell trays...wish I would have take a photo for you.

Ever since you posted your photo last season, I have been trying to get your results but in the system I already had in place. I am close and it all has come down to calculating exact watering in my specific medium... Tedious, but roots explode... 90% to where I would like to be.
 

mapinguari

Member
Veteran
Does anyone else obsess over their roots like I do.....?

I know this plant is off on the right path..... I may be creating a custom potting line from years of trial & error and documented studies...

The right balance of Ca and aminos early on do this too - the little bit of brown is because I let dry out too much, 300ml pots can do that

]

Love this tek, and am planning to try it.

One thing I've mulled over: you said before that you get root damage removing the starts from the tree pots.

Why don't you just take them out when the root tips are starting to poke through the sides? Is it because they haven't filled out the pots and so are liable to fall apart?

Thanks for sharing.
 

led05

Chasing The Present
Love this tek, and am planning to try it.

One thing I've mulled over: you said before that you get root damage removing the starts from the tree pots.

Why don't you just take them out when the root tips are starting to poke through the sides? Is it because they haven't filled out the pots and so are liable to fall apart?

Thanks for sharing.

i no longer take them out - overall utility benefits to keep them in.

You're right though, when they just reach the edge they haven't filled in enough yet to remove.... These starter pots are only about 2" across at top so they hit edge quickly from emergence.

I tested 10 taking out and 10 just leaving in recently and there wasn't much difference to tell (10 in slightly better but def not a scientific study ;) ). It isn't easy removing them when I feel they are ready to be transplanted so I just leave them in now....

The trade-off is dealing with the plastic at the end - I compost everything I grow and everything is recycled - some of the plastic pots are saved, some are just cut away and recycled at the curb to the county
 

led05

Chasing The Present
Nice roots!

I just transplanted my outdoor starts from 50 cell trays...wish I would have take a photo for you.

Ever since you posted your photo last season, I have been trying to get your results but in the system I already had in place. I am close and it all has come down to calculating exact watering in my specific medium... Tedious, but roots explode... 90% to where I would like to be.


The extra effort is SO worth it. If the roots start off great and you get them into a larger container or ground the work has been done for you, now just don't F it up, you know this already though....


Watering.... I use a large bonsai (large for bonsai, probably 50 oz) watering container that restricts the flow out the nozzle, it takes a while but makes it much easier..... There's no easy way to water 100-300ml containers / plugs properly that's automated I've found, at least not yet ! People may be thinking by hand, wtf, and it does suck but I'm dealing with thousands of starts by mid march and it can happen and does in under a couple hours / day of work

You can get it done many ways but IMO to do it right and create aeroponic like roots in soil, it's all about proper moisture and letting it get drier than you think, balance beam

Sounds to me like Growing may be close on automating it, this makes me curious to see :)
 

Badfishy1

Active member
Does anyone else obsess over their roots like I do.....?

I know this plant is off on the right path..... I may be creating a custom potting line from years of trial & error and documented studies...

The right balance of Ca and aminos early on do this too - the little bit of brown is because I let dry out too much, 300ml pots can do that

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=76046&pictureid=1823935&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

What are you starting them in m8?
 

growingcrazy

Well-known member
Veteran
Scaling is the hard part.

A 5ml dose into a prop tray cell is a tough task to repeat on scale.

I don't like a lot of fancy equipment when it comes to seedlings. One failure and your season is toast.

I am still using red mister nozzles over head on large scale starts. I had to run higher pressure to get better coverage and then shorter irrigation times.

What temp is your water at time of use?
 

redlaser

Active member
Veteran
The extra effort is SO worth it. If the roots start off great and you get them into a larger container or ground the work has been done for you, now just don't F it up, you know this already though....


Watering.... I use a large bonsai (large for bonsai, probably 50 oz) watering container that restricts the flow out the nozzle, it takes a while but makes it much easier..... There's no easy way to water 100-300ml containers / plugs properly that's automated I've found, at least not yet ! People may be thinking by hand, wtf, and it does suck but I'm dealing with thousands of starts by mid march and it can happen and does in under a couple hours / day of work

You can get it done many ways but IMO to do it right and create aeroponic like roots in soil, it's all about proper moisture and letting it get drier than you think, balance beam

Sounds to me like Growing may be close on automating it, this makes me curious to see :)
Mist beds work really well for cuttings, haven’t tried them for seeds, I’m sure you’ve tried something like that. You probably have varied sizes of containers that would require individual or repeat watering each time.

Watering smaller plants has its challenges in larger numbers especially when growth is not uniform. I use to water 8-10 hours a day by hand at an annual flat producer in the spring before they automated some of their watering. 66 bays per house, 450,000 flats when full, and they would get 2 cycles per house per year with 13 houses and a propagation house. Six people watering the whole place, was the largest in the Midwest in ‘85, Dix Greenhouse.

I like what your doing with the tree pots, I’ve tried the Anderson band pots and a few others, mostly for plants at guerrilla grows. Perfect for that, but obviously for other things as well. They don’t have the same
root development though, but still worthwhile.
 

EasyGoing

Member
I am seeing flood and drain for those starter plugs.

Will try to get that meter today, been more swamped than harvest season over here.
 

led05

Chasing The Present
Scaling is the hard part.

A 5ml dose into a prop tray cell is a tough task to repeat on scale.

I don't like a lot of fancy equipment when it comes to seedlings. One failure and your season is toast.

I am still using red mister nozzles over head on large scale starts. I had to run higher pressure to get better coverage and then shorter irrigation times.

What temp is your water at time of use?

normally b/w 69-72 F - do you find any issues with the leaves getting wet or it's still early enough in year and humidity is low? that's indoors, once in GH's closer to mid 50's F - I've heated reservoirs warmer but generally early spring I'm growing things that like early spring so that temp water is fine....... Hot house crops, 65+
 

led05

Chasing The Present
Mist beds work really well for cuttings, haven’t tried them for seeds, I’m sure you’ve tried something like that. You probably have varied sizes of containers that would require individual or repeat watering each time.

Watering smaller plants has its challenges in larger numbers especially when growth is not uniform. I use to water 8-10 hours a day by hand at an annual flat producer in the spring before they automated some of their watering. 66 bays per house, 450,000 flats when full, and they would get 2 cycles per house per year with 13 houses and a propagation house. Six people watering the whole place, was the largest in the Midwest in ‘85, Dix Greenhouse.

I like what your doing with the tree pots, I’ve tried the Anderson band pots and a few others, mostly for plants at guerrilla grows. Perfect for that, but obviously for other things as well. They don’t have the same
root development though, but still worthwhile.

diff sizes, 20-30 diff species for me determines that it has to be by hand, automating it would be more work, expense and thought than I'm willing to put in...

now 450K flats so 20M + plants, Gesus !
 

led05

Chasing The Present
I am seeing flood and drain for those starter plugs.

Will try to get that meter today, been more swamped than harvest season over here.

flood & drain...Try it and then you won't and you'll see why........... Ur top will be too dry and bottom wet
 

led05

Chasing The Present
What are you starting them in m8?

buried within this thread I've posted links and detailed how the concept works if you're referring to containers.

If medium - I build my soil, peat, vermiculite, outdoor soil, calphos, thorvin kelp, bone meal, DE, K-Mag etc
 

EasyGoing

Member
picture.php


Sorry for the delay, been busy. The link I provided is the correct link, but for some reason my meter is red, and the one they show is green. Also, how dumb can I be. It's obviously a Aktivitatsmesser: Pflanzen-Ernahrungs-Tachometer. Duh. I got the longest probe also, so I don't have to bend over in the field.

picture.php
 

led05

Chasing The Present
View Image

Sorry for the delay, been busy. The link I provided is the correct link, but for some reason my meter is red, and the one they show is green. Also, how dumb can I be. It's obviously a Aktivitatsmesser: Pflanzen-Ernahrungs-Tachometer. Duh. I got the longest probe also, so I don't have to bend over in the field.

View Image

thanks for the laugh!, details and nice background shot
 
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