Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[plantingplants]

Strctly, here's an answer from a beginner since you have none yet. CEC can't be leached because it's not a thing. It can lower though. It's basically a calculation of how many cations your soil can hold. As you lose organic matter, your CEC will go down. The tds and pH of your water can affect what cations are on those exchange sites. Eg, adding gypsum can replace other cations with Ca. And the pH if your water can affect how much hydrogen is on the exchange sites, which will affect your soil pH. Whether tds or pH can actually affect the CEC value, I don't kbow for sure.

 

[slownickel]

AMAZING THREAD!!
Have to read it over and over and over. Thank you Slow for starting this.

Just a question from a beginner organic-grower, how does the PPM/PH of water interact with soil CEC?

Can moderate levels of rainwater leach a plants CEC?

Herby,

The ppms that you apply in your water move or sway the CEC constantly, one meq of one element pushes out another meq of another.

The pH of the water will reflect to a great extent if you have carbonate or bicarbonate issues. Anything over 7 you should worry about what is in there.

Depending on where the weather front was formed (weather formed over the ocean is naturally occuring acid rain) it may or may not have an affect on your soil. If it is acidic, it will to a certain extent wash elements away. Water that has low ppms removes a lot of elements from the soil and is a whole other problem.

Hope that helps.

 

[jidoka]

Slow...on a spectrum analysis do they report P or p2o5?

 

[slownickel]

Slow...on a spectrum analysis do they report P or p2o5?

P

 

[plantingplants]

If P needs Zn, shouldn't a Zn deficiency always present as bent leaflet tips and P deficiency symptoms?


Doka, test results in yet??

 

[slownickel]

If P needs Zn, shouldn't a Zn deficiency always present as bent leaflet tips and P deficiency symptoms?

PP,

Realize that long before a deficiency visualizes, you lost yield. Long before that visual symptom you lost some quality.

Often P deficiencies are in actuality Zn deficiencies or K and or Na excess.

 

[jidoka]

not yet. the email is going to both slow and I. Soon as he gets it he can post it and we can use it as a basis for discussion.

The TS will be the top soil mix I used. This was by far the best plant I grew. It outyielded everything else and quality was on point. It is making me want to change out all my soil although I think I have an even better idea for next yr.

I simply used 1/2 inch local basalt rock as a drainage amendment and you cannot find a trace of it. So definitely high bio activity. But also a mistake cause the basalt is high in Fe. And so is the soil cause it comes from the top of a mesa formed by volcanic activity sitting right on top of that same basalt deposit. On the other hand it is highly paramagnetic...maybe there is something to that.

The second soil is marked BAS. It is Jeremy's base with my own amendments. I used Oly Mountain compost. If you have seen it you know how much hardwood is in it...gone in one full season grow. The other plant substantially beat this one on yield but I would say this soil performed very well also.

So me cards are on the table. let's turn em over and see what I got

 

[plantingplants]

Wow the wood is gone in one grow? The fuck? I have that compost. I'm going to take a look.

 

[slownickel]

The TS will be the top soil mix I used. This was by far the best plant I grew. It outyielded everything else and quality was on point. It is making me want to change out all my soil although I think I have an even better idea for next yr.

I simply used 1/2 inch local basalt rock as a drainage amendment and you cannot find a trace of it. So definitely high bio activity. But also a mistake cause the basalt is high in Fe. And so is the soil cause it comes from the top of a mesa formed by volcanic activity sitting right on top of that same basalt deposit. On the other hand it is highly paramagnetic...maybe there is something to that.

The second soil is marked BAS. It is Jeremy's base with my own amendments. I used Oly Mountain compost. If you have seen it you know how much hardwood is in it...gone in one full season grow. The other plant substantially beat this one on yield but I would say this soil performed very well also.

I guess this means saturated paste is pretty meaningless, haha.

An annual consuming 1/2 " rocks? Mmmm

Do you have a water analysis?

Wood chips are pretty amazing things. The give off lots of acid. I might be thinking about where all those rocks went and why.

Thanks Jidoka for running these samples and adding to the data base.

 

[jidoka]

Woo tainio aint no joke. Water is 56 ppm total alkalinity

 

[oct]

Realize that long before a deficiency visualizes, you lost yield. Long before that visual symptom you lost some quality.

Similar to when people were talking about getting a response from spraying calcium and you were telling them that if they are actually seeing a visual response from spray Ca, they missed the boat long ago. I penned that one down in my notes.

 

[slownickel]

The idea of being a good grower is never seeing any deficiency yet getting response from inputs.

 

[jidoka]

Hence the use of sap meters.

With the microbe activity carbonic acids become the main mineral dissolving method vs the sulfuric acid counted on by conventional ag

I got a cool quote i ganked from microbeman...i will post it when i get home

 

[plantingplants]

Yea I want to fuck with some enzymes next year.

I was thinking of making my own line of woo-nutes. The key selling point would be the CannaWater (tm) that would be the carrier for the nutrients (gotta sell woo in water so you make more $$ so you might as well make the water be woo, too). CannaWater (tm) is a proprietary water product extracted from live cannabis plants. The water, by virtue of existing within the plant, is imbued with the vibrational frequency of actively growing healthy cannabis plants. The water is only taken from the largest and healthiest plants. There is no physical extraction method that might alter the water. The plant gives it directly to us by its own natural processes.

Just don't tell anyone it's the water that comes out of my dehumidifier hose.

WooNutes (tm) with CannaWater (tm)
Patent Pending

Yea?



Slow, how'd that garden in Oregon you were helping out do? Any cannabis lessons learned?

 

[slownickel]

I am making Korean fruit and veggie waste enzymes,the pH is below 4.5 so far in 60 days.

No idea how the Oregon guy finished up. Last I heard things looked great. He needed help that I couldn't provide, haven't heard from him in a while. Pretty sure he is among us.

 

[jidoka]

So like I said this is from microbeman, I am not smart enough to describe it this well. But this is exactly what I count on in my grows...

The carbonic acids described are organic acids, of which there are many-many types, which are excreted/created by bacteria, archaea, fungi and plants.

(One might say hypothetically) The real beauty of this system is that the plant creates certain carbon molecules which feed specific bacterial/archaeal species which excrete (exudate) specific organic acids which release (trade for) specific and required (by the plant) nutrients.

The further genius and economics to this system is that specific species of flagellates and/or naked amoebae multiply in response to the bacterial/archaeal population to feed on them but as noted by Michael (et moi) in another thread, they utilize only a small portion of the specific nutrient while excreting the larger percentage as bio-available [ionic] to the roots. (e.g. avg, 30% - 70% respectively).

 

[jidoka]

So two buds I cut today, 3 weeks after I harvested the mains on these plants. Blow them up and check the trichomes...not much oxidative damage at all yet. Both in the TS soil. Ima fill my personal bags with this late stuff

 

[maxmurder]

Yea I want to fuck with some enzymes next year.

I was thinking of making my own line of woo-nutes. The key selling point would be the CannaWater (tm) that would be the carrier for the nutrients (gotta sell woo in water so you make more $$ so you might as well make the water be woo, too). CannaWater (tm) is a proprietary water product extracted from live cannabis plants. The water, by virtue of existing within the plant, is imbued with the vibrational frequency of actively growing healthy cannabis plants. The water is only taken from the largest and healthiest plants. There is no physical extraction method that might alter the water. The plant gives it directly to us by its own natural processes.

Just don't tell anyone it's the water that comes out of my dehumidifier hose.

WooNutes (tm) with CannaWater (tm)
Patent Pending

Yea?



Slow, how'd that garden in Oregon you were helping out do? Any cannabis lessons learned?

Ha! you're fuckin funny dude, i'd offer to invest but i had a shit year

 

[maxmurder]

View Image

So two buds I cut today, 3 weeks after I harvested the mains on these plants. Blow them up and check the trichomes...not much oxidative damage at all yet. Both in the TS soil. Ima fill my personal bags with this late stuff

beautiful jidoka- if the color purple had a smell

 

[jidoka]

So results are in. I dont have a clue what to think.

My dumb ass did not send a sample to logan

Did the plant really use up 70 ppm Silica. If it did we just found out some shit

Gonna take me a minute to even know what i think. One of these labs is fucked. I hope it is logan cause that means i have huuge potential improvement possible