Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[rykus]

I used calimagic by gh... still fuct but 5-1 Ca-n and 5-1.25 Ca-mg ... is calcium carbonate and magnesium sulfate ...

I was using that as my base and then with the super boost (11-50-9) and micro and bloom, I could get pretty close to decent ratios.. but hard not to get Mg and N pushing up..

Thanks for the thoughts though.. but yeah with gypsum I could get 60 ish% Ca but had some burn etc so not 100% ideal...

Thanks again

 

[jidoka]

Ummmm...major news to me that caco3 is soluble. I would have to see sap or tissue analysis before I believe that

 

[orechron]

It's soluble at a crazy low pH lol. Maybe that shit comes out of the bottle at 3.0, I've never checked the pH of calmag in the past.


Instagram has a lot of korean natural farming action going on these days. It makes me wonder how much calcium you can supply with ferments or even carbonate soaked in vinegar. Is it more effective than using gypsum if your pH is high enough to do so? I'm skeptical. Why go through the trouble, especially when high sulfate doesn't seem to be a problem?

 

[Limeygreen]

If you have sufficient Calcium levels the potassium may be blocking Ca uptake, also if you have low boron levels. Feed, substrate tests are great but a leaf sap would show what is being uptaken in relation to feed or substrate then a great decision could be made. There is WGU (dutch university) that did some research and has shown that some varieties of peppers and tomatoes can reduce blossom end rot by lowering potassium significantly in hydroponic growing and in one case omitting it completely to get the calcium uptake as it was in a good range but upping the calcium didn't produce the same result if the potassium was not reduced but also not necessary with reduced potassium.

 

[rykus]

Not sure but that's what they say on the jug... still lost a good week to N and K going over at day 35 ish, but hit solid #'s at cut... brix was low after feed issues at 6-7 I think but just tested once when leaves dropped ... like I said pretty winging it but tried for real numbers by breaking down feeds a bit..

Didn't do gypsum till early flower to get N down when really that would have fixed it more I think.. rambling now but yeah first time coco got 2.4 across dec amount of bulbs in old parobolics..

Thanks jidoka

 

[jidoka]

Even if it did come out of the bottle at 3 would you put it in the soil at 3? And when you get it to 6 in soln what happens. Is caco3 or bicarbonate available from water?

I no fan of Korean farming

 

[rykus]

Calimagic is just below neutral

Pics.. any thoughts?

Opened a coco gallery on my page as I can't get photos here proper..

 

[slownickel]

I used calimagic by gh... still fuct but 5-1 Ca-n and 5-1.25 Ca-mg ... is calcium carbonate and magnesium sulfate ...

I was using that as my base and then with the super boost (11-50-9) and micro and bloom, I could get pretty close to decent ratios.. but hard not to get Mg and N pushing up..

Thanks for the thoughts though.. but yeah with gypsum I could get 60 ish% Ca but had some burn etc so not 100% ideal...

Thanks again

Rykus,

Learning how to use gypsum is a bit more complicated than going out there and throwing on gyp and then continuing what you were doing before... nope, don't work that way.

All of a sudden you are going to have a lot more roots and the next bottle neck will quickly show up, P, K, micros, etc.... those deficiencies you may have never seen before, why? You didn't have that root mass before gypsum.

With that said, applying 2 inches thick and then wetting it to make cement will also give you a negative response to gypsum.

Love to see pics of that burn.

Also realize that the quality of gypsum varies greatly. There are many sources of gypsum that are full of sodium.... others have carbonates and possibly even bicarbonates.

Please elaborate more on this negative response to gypsum.

 

[slownickel]

Been visiting a bunch of soil-less grows. Yuk. No chance of getting Ca into their programs it would seem.

Gotta do some re-engineering of their systems but I enjoy the challenge.

 

[jidoka]

Everywhere you go to those grows major Ca shortages are easily seen right?

 

[rykus]

Hey Slownickle!

Thanks for taking a look.. I wasn't adding gypsum to my normal feed, I have an organic based system I usually run in 15gallon pots.

I was hired to make that coco run work.. plants where in food was bought.. I tried to get as close as I could to 70%calcium 15%magnesium and under 10% potassium with the food there.

I could only get 50-60% using calimagic so added gypsum to the resiviours to lower N and up Ca..

I feel I did ok but was nervous about putting the gypsum through the drip feed system as it was already under powered and fed more /less to different areas.

Most of the burn was pushing N to far.., but yeild and quality where affected by just going to high ec wise mostly..

I'm thinking more hydro style so just wanna get in proper ratios and push out old stuff in low cec medium.

I'll post pics of next run if possible as I think I figured quite a bit more out. So thanks all again.love the back n forth in here and have learned a ton!

Pics are clearer in my album.. take a look there as I can't figure out the posting on my phone

 

[slownickel]

Hey Slownickle!

Thanks for taking a look.. I wasn't adding gypsum to my normal feed, I have an organic based system I usually run in 15gallon pots.

I was hired to make that coco run work.. plants where in food was bought.. I tried to get as close as I could to 70%calcium 15%magnesium and under 10% potassium with the food there.

I could only get 50-60% using calimagic so added gypsum to the resiviours to lower N and up Ca..

I feel I did ok but was nervous about putting the gypsum through the drip feed system as it was already under powered and fed more /less to different areas.

Most of the burn was pushing N to far.., but yeild and quality where affected by just going to high ec wise mostly..

I'm thinking more hydro style so just wanna get in proper ratios and push out old stuff in low cec medium.

I'll post pics of next run if possible as I think I figured quite a bit more out. So thanks all again.love the back n forth in here and have learned a ton!

Pics are clearer in my album.. take a look there as I can't figure out the posting on my phone

When you say coco, coco plus what else? Is this the first season? Are there fines? Is there an earthy smell if you grab a hand full from the pot?

10% K is a lot, you don't need that much if this is a soil. That was your burn. You had no space to fertilize.

The first step to helping anyone is to learn. That means if you are afraid of doing something but think it might work, do 1 plant.

Pushing gypsum through an irrigation system is not easy either. You need constant agitation, the right gypsum, and some serious filters....

I went through your album. Not easy to see much...

 

[jidoka]

I push https://customhydronutrients.com/gypsum-solution-grade-c-75_79_237.html through micro sprinklers at 3.3 grams per gallon with no issues.

Injectors, on the other hand, are no bueno

 

[rykus]

Thanks again Slownickle and Jidoka,

It was fresh canna coco ,no additives or additions,mix of fines and some strands.. good quality though imo, smells kind of earthy, but more so after a run.planted in 2 gallon fabric pots on drip system.. was misters aswell when I got there but they kept clogging and spraying all over.. mostly the problems with it once again was way under powered pumps.i planted the second run in used coco and seemed to work the same(better because better feed)

I had 300gallon Rubbermaid pond or feed troughs for resivours and I would agitate with pool brush while the pumps ran. Inline filter I cleaned after every feed, and some would stay clumped up and get shop vac' d out.

I ran 6 rooms there and did try a few things minorly different but mostly plant and container size, and varieties.

Sorry I don't have more pics.. I erased most off my phone as I was not happy how they ran that or interacted with staff etc..

The second run I started gypsum from day 1 and some of the long flower equatorial varieties I finished looked amazing and I had less feed issues and played safer ec wise as no co2... but yeah ran a bit higher gypsum - calimagic ratio and was really getting it when I left there...

The coco definitely required Mg while it really seems to be a harm switching back to promix for my new job...

But pretty much my plan has been to try to pump lower ec of proper ratio through a low Cec medium more like a passive hydro, fed very often at low amount of liquids..

Going to look into that solution grade!thanks , been using ag grade and it's pretty good but maybe 5-10% is non soluble it seems.

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

Injectors, on the other hand, are no bueno

so is there a way to get Ca in the system with a injector, in a organic grow?
Is the Amino Ca more soluble than CaSO4?
throws a wrench in my plans when solubility is only 7.7 grams........

 

[growingcrazy]

so is there a way to get Ca in the system with a injector, in a organic grow?
Is the Amino Ca more soluble than CaSO4?
throws a wrench in my plans when solubility is only 7.7 grams........

I am running this season with 0 foliar sprays if possible. So far not a single one. Everything is in the soil and I am feeding through open .250 tubing. My theory is that if I can get enough into the soil and get the microbes to make it available...

I'm done with bottles, Ca or otherwise. Fuck woo.

This is in the 9ft range. All topdress or irrigation, no foliar. First real outdoor run. Sunshine Daydream is the strain.

We calculated roughly $275 in labor,amendments and electricity per 6 plants full season... Not including all the hoops (8) that were destroyed in pre-season storms...

Jidoka, have you done side by side testing with coir and organic soil? The results we got were not as anticipated... we no longer run any coir.

 

[jidoka]

Happy...liquid Albion Ca is 6% Ca so it is way more soluble than gypsum. It is also stupid expensive if you use it that way.

The people I work with use 3 gal pots of coco each one using about 1 gal of fert per day. At 1000s of plants it would not be realistic to use amino Ca at like 21 ml per gallon...or the powder at like 3.5 gm or whatever the numbers actually work out to.

crazy...I would pick organic soil over coco any day. Coco has one crazy feature that I have never seen talked about that causes uptake problems with one element.

Anyways when you go into someone else's grow to help chances are the last thing they want to hear is we have to change everything. You got capital, logistics (gotta hit those lbs every week), retraining and labor problems.

I personally would prefer a hybrid method. Lightweight peat mix that is living but some fertigation and some foliar. But that is me.

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

depending on garden size, it looks like a large rez is required just for gypsum feeds, there has got to be a easier way. right now I've been making slurries and hand watering into the soil surface with the drip to push it down afterwards.

 

[Mronyc]

@jidoka care to tell which element and is coco worth in improving soil texture, say 25%.

 

[MrBungle]

I bet that element begins with the letter P