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Skunkman Sam's Secret Dry Sift 2009
- Thread starter bubbleman
- Start date
Thanks. I try to stay current on the scholarly lit. and as none of this info is available I need to find my own answers. The worst part is all the wrong info spewed by E.Rosenthall and G.Cervanties, etc; don't even get me started on proper photon qualification and quantitation! I like to share the info I have with others so they too can use these methods.
Right now am not smoking anything, which REALLY SUCKS (I have a broken spine and degenerative disk disease). Where I live its $50 for beasters! So I don't smoke unless I or my buddies grow it. And I'm not growing now because I'm moving back to a med state very soon!
Then its on! I prefer a vap/bong tho I want to try the volcano. I am developing a BHO/ethanol extraction method that will rival, and surpass in some ways, Co2 SCE. The purity will be TOTALLY free from butane, and also (IMO) ethanol. Big pharma uses a method similar to mine, tho less ideal because a microcentrifuge is not always used when it would be helpful. My method does not exceed 110'F at any point, thus it will have a very broad profile of flavonoids and terpenoids. THC content should be ~90+%!
Once I have that extract made I think I may smoke a lot of it with a kif/hash bong (ex. HMK).
If you are making a solvent extraction then also make the water alkaline with NaOH (baking soda may work). Raise pH =>10. Then after heating wash cannabis in clean water a few times to remove any residue base. This way you should get greater decarb of acids into cannabinoids then using either method alone.
Yes. Dozens of scientists starting IIRC circa 1920s. The problem is this info is not available anywhere but in scholarly journals, some which are not online. The crap spewed by E.Rosenthall is just that, and he offers no references. While the different temps E.Rosenthall suggests as ideal (which is odd in and of itself; 3 diff temps, wtf?) are sufficient because they do not exceed 122'C, they will boil off more than a few flavonoids and terpenoids. Both of which contain chemicals which have been proven to be 'delivery vehicles' for cannabinoids in some instances, increasing the effects of cannabinoids, and as medicine in their own right.
HTH
CFP65
Member
to me it seems like there is alot of unnessesary things going on to get this quality dry sift.
my 5cents to make it simple is
get to know some one with a restaurant who has a "walk in" deepfreeze storage room
or alternative take a big lidontop deepfreezer drill a small hole in the lid, and put the wire for a normal drysift drum trough
place fresh or 1 day dry Buds in the drum, with glassbeads. close lid on drysift drum/machine and the freezerlid. let freeze for 48 hours
turn on drysift machine, for as long as needed
take a piece of PVC board, baloon or other thing that can be made electrostatic, and sweep it close to the trichs BEFORE collecting them, this migth suck up any dry pistils
collect trichs and smoke
my 5cents to make it simple is
get to know some one with a restaurant who has a "walk in" deepfreeze storage room
or alternative take a big lidontop deepfreezer drill a small hole in the lid, and put the wire for a normal drysift drum trough
place fresh or 1 day dry Buds in the drum, with glassbeads. close lid on drysift drum/machine and the freezerlid. let freeze for 48 hours
turn on drysift machine, for as long as needed
take a piece of PVC board, baloon or other thing that can be made electrostatic, and sweep it close to the trichs BEFORE collecting them, this migth suck up any dry pistils
collect trichs and smoke
Jump wrote:
Hey jump,
I don't know all the bp of acids, but they are below that of cannabinoids. As I mentioned up to 122'C and the final THC (not "total THC") will increase[1]. I suggest 38'C (100'F) because it has been used in a paper (I need to read) by Turner and Mahlberg[2], they used 37'C (98.6'F) and 60'C (140'F) for several hours in an open reactor. This is good because both 37'C and 60'C are low, I assume few terpenes will boil off at 98.6'F.
By using 100'F one would (seemingly) loose less terpenoids and flavonoids. Note that the bp of some of those chemicals is above 100'C, but not all AFAIK. (See list below)
The problem with using over 100'C is some known terpenoids have bp as low as ~115'C and 119'C, etc, thus I assume some are below 100'C. I am hedging my bets with cooler decarb.
In one main study[1] a few different solvents, absorbent and no solvents were used in an open reactor. Descriptions and references to other studies using closed reactor are within. Point being, all data is pretty darn close to all other data, temperature wise.
Here is a winzipped folder of 6 journal articles. Some are not exactly on topic, but close so I thought some of you might be interested:
www.filedropper.com/decarboxylate
"Determination of cannabinoid acids by HPLC of their neutral derivatives formed by thermal decarboxylation"
Author(s): T. Veress, J. I. Szanto and L. Leisztner
Info about decarboxylation with alkaline solutions:
"Natural cannabinoids: Templates for drug discovery"
Author(s): Ganesh A. Thakur, Richard I. Duclos, Jr. And Alexandros Makriyannis
"Structure-Activity Relationships of the Cannabinoids: An Overview"
Author(s): Raj K. Razdan, Ph.D
[1] "Determination of cannabinoid acids by HPLC of their neutral derivatives formed by thermal decarboxylation"
Author(s): T. Veress, J. I. Szanto and L. Leisztner
[2] J. C. Turner and P. G. Mahlberg, Journal of chromatograhy, 171 (1979) 504.
[3] "Isolation of THCA-A from hemp and analytical aspects concerning the determination of THC in cannabis products"
Author(s): Franz E. Dussy, Cornelia Hamberg, Marco Luginbuhl, Thomas Schwerzmann and Thomas A. Briellmann
here is a great list I forgot where I got it:
For illustrations and explanations of many of the chemicals (terpenoids, etc) see the Google scans of the book by E.Russo, "Cannabis Therapeutics in HIV/AIDS", p.112-114.
Fig. 1.: http://books.google.com/books?id=qU...s=fi_IxPahdq&dq=cannabis+terpenoid+boil+point
Is that what you wanted?
Hey jump,
I don't know all the bp of acids, but they are below that of cannabinoids. As I mentioned up to 122'C and the final THC (not "total THC") will increase[1]. I suggest 38'C (100'F) because it has been used in a paper (I need to read) by Turner and Mahlberg[2], they used 37'C (98.6'F) and 60'C (140'F) for several hours in an open reactor. This is good because both 37'C and 60'C are low, I assume few terpenes will boil off at 98.6'F.
By using 100'F one would (seemingly) loose less terpenoids and flavonoids. Note that the bp of some of those chemicals is above 100'C, but not all AFAIK. (See list below)
The problem with using over 100'C is some known terpenoids have bp as low as ~115'C and 119'C, etc, thus I assume some are below 100'C. I am hedging my bets with cooler decarb.
In one main study[1] a few different solvents, absorbent and no solvents were used in an open reactor. Descriptions and references to other studies using closed reactor are within. Point being, all data is pretty darn close to all other data, temperature wise.
Here is a winzipped folder of 6 journal articles. Some are not exactly on topic, but close so I thought some of you might be interested:
www.filedropper.com/decarboxylate
"Determination of cannabinoid acids by HPLC of their neutral derivatives formed by thermal decarboxylation"
Author(s): T. Veress, J. I. Szanto and L. Leisztner
Info about decarboxylation with alkaline solutions:
"Natural cannabinoids: Templates for drug discovery"
Author(s): Ganesh A. Thakur, Richard I. Duclos, Jr. And Alexandros Makriyannis
"Structure-Activity Relationships of the Cannabinoids: An Overview"
Author(s): Raj K. Razdan, Ph.D
[1] "Determination of cannabinoid acids by HPLC of their neutral derivatives formed by thermal decarboxylation"
Author(s): T. Veress, J. I. Szanto and L. Leisztner
[2] J. C. Turner and P. G. Mahlberg, Journal of chromatograhy, 171 (1979) 504.
[3] "Isolation of THCA-A from hemp and analytical aspects concerning the determination of THC in cannabis products"
Author(s): Franz E. Dussy, Cornelia Hamberg, Marco Luginbuhl, Thomas Schwerzmann and Thomas A. Briellmann
here is a great list I forgot where I got it:
For illustrations and explanations of many of the chemicals (terpenoids, etc) see the Google scans of the book by E.Russo, "Cannabis Therapeutics in HIV/AIDS", p.112-114.
Fig. 1.: http://books.google.com/books?id=qU...s=fi_IxPahdq&dq=cannabis+terpenoid+boil+point
Is that what you wanted?
Green rasta
Member
Hashish
Hashish
Ganja din u r the man ! I don't agree with secrets. Why. Was the xtr 420 never reported on?? Answer. Skunkman & bubblman r crooks Ed rosenthal also. Keep it green &grow ur mind! Peace
Hashish
Ganja din u r the man ! I don't agree with secrets. Why. Was the xtr 420 never reported on?? Answer. Skunkman & bubblman r crooks Ed rosenthal also. Keep it green &grow ur mind! Peace
These data are exactly what I wanted to see, thank you very much 
.
But I still haven’t found what I was looking for…
Same as I’ve seen before the most of the known active and possibly co-active components of a resin have their boiling points over boiling water.
And it doesn’t explain significant loss of resin during my attempt of decarb at temp of boiling water. There is some pix in my album BHO.
Because of very obvious reason I wasn’t sober enough to expertise a changes of quality but quantity was visibly decreased. Some substances were evaporated.
It doesn’t explain also HMK terpenes bubbles in BHO. He was probably quite sincere in the assurances he repeatedly gave. I do not understand how and why did terpens evaporate into bubbles.
Sadly I was failed trying to open www.filedropper.com/decarboxylate it only switches to it’s start page asking for my US registration codes that I haven’t.
jump
. But I still haven’t found what I was looking for…
Same as I’ve seen before the most of the known active and possibly co-active components of a resin have their boiling points over boiling water.
And it doesn’t explain significant loss of resin during my attempt of decarb at temp of boiling water. There is some pix in my album BHO.
Because of very obvious reason I wasn’t sober enough to expertise a changes of quality but quantity was visibly decreased. Some substances were evaporated.
It doesn’t explain also HMK terpenes bubbles in BHO. He was probably quite sincere in the assurances he repeatedly gave. I do not understand how and why did terpens evaporate into bubbles.
Sadly I was failed trying to open www.filedropper.com/decarboxylate it only switches to it’s start page asking for my US registration codes that I haven’t.
jump
Hey
Once you read those papers it should be clear. The quote of that paper's conclusion I posted states the problem pretty clearly.
Loss of resin? What do you mean by resin? You should not physically loose matter.
I will re upload the papers today, there is no registration to dl them, I might have given you the wrong URL.
No doubt you lost some chemicals to boiling off. Sorry to hear that.
I can explain it: he is making shit up, total BS! That will not happen! (AFAIK)
We use the term bp (boiling point) but that doesn't always mean the substance will boil...
HTH GL
Once you read those papers it should be clear. The quote of that paper's conclusion I posted states the problem pretty clearly.
Loss of resin? What do you mean by resin? You should not physically loose matter.
I will re upload the papers today, there is no registration to dl them, I might have given you the wrong URL.
No doubt you lost some chemicals to boiling off. Sorry to hear that.
I can explain it: he is making shit up, total BS! That will not happen! (AFAIK)
We use the term bp (boiling point) but that doesn't always mean the substance will boil...
HTH GL
Hey ganja din,
Say the truth I can hardly accept this customary term, because the substance is not an oil - it’s sticky resin, not oily oil.
Anyway it was lost in translation, read BHO instead of resin, not dry sifted kiff nor bubble.
It was placed in a glass vial covered with a steel ball as an air lock to provide CO2 out only.
The vial was fixed on a saucepan bottom and was exposed for two hours covered with boiling water to a half of it’s height.
There was no boiling or bubbling observed inside the vial.
Then bho was removed from a vial via dissolving in ethanol and collected again and showed a visible loss of amount of bho.
Btw our conversation is off-topic here...
Here by “resin” I mean a secretion of trichomes heads glands extracted with a help of butane aka BHO.
Say the truth I can hardly accept this customary term, because the substance is not an oil - it’s sticky resin, not oily oil.
Anyway it was lost in translation, read BHO instead of resin, not dry sifted kiff nor bubble.
It was placed in a glass vial covered with a steel ball as an air lock to provide CO2 out only.
The vial was fixed on a saucepan bottom and was exposed for two hours covered with boiling water to a half of it’s height.
There was no boiling or bubbling observed inside the vial.
Then bho was removed from a vial via dissolving in ethanol and collected again and showed a visible loss of amount of bho.
Btw our conversation is off-topic here...
Ryoko_The_Demon
New member
Hey everyone!
Based on the pics some other guy posted and some stuff I read on the internet but haven't tried, I would like to postulate about how to harvest good resin. Rather than experiment, I'd just like to talk a lot about it while proving and learning nothing.
Based on some NASA documents about cleaning plumbing fixtures in low gravity, I have a wildly speculative idea that I myself am not willing to bother to put to the test. Anyone know where to get some Higgs bosons and an electric toothbrush? You kids try it out, and let me know when you are successful.
Based on the pics some other guy posted and some stuff I read on the internet but haven't tried, I would like to postulate about how to harvest good resin. Rather than experiment, I'd just like to talk a lot about it while proving and learning nothing.
Based on some NASA documents about cleaning plumbing fixtures in low gravity, I have a wildly speculative idea that I myself am not willing to bother to put to the test. Anyone know where to get some Higgs bosons and an electric toothbrush? You kids try it out, and let me know when you are successful.
S
slimj
that there had been a nice christmas gift
Bumble Buddy
Active member
Great photos again Bubbleman, I think they are even better than last years, though the sift was prettier last year.
I think Sam's method is rather low tech, I think he mentioned being in Africa when he thought it up and first tried it out, lots of high tech equipment in Africa but I think that info makes it less likely to be something lab grade or very sophisticated.
Also, there certainly isn't any water or other solvent coming into contact with the resin, Sam's views on cannabis aromatics is no secret.
My guess is that it involves use of, or a combination of, electrostatic force and vibrational sieving of some sort.
I think Sam's method is rather low tech, I think he mentioned being in Africa when he thought it up and first tried it out, lots of high tech equipment in Africa but I think that info makes it less likely to be something lab grade or very sophisticated.
Also, there certainly isn't any water or other solvent coming into contact with the resin, Sam's views on cannabis aromatics is no secret.
My guess is that it involves use of, or a combination of, electrostatic force and vibrational sieving of some sort.
i know sam's secret, and i am willing to share with the community....
and here it is.... he does'nt use his shitty weed to make his hash.... what weed he uses i dunno, but i've grown his seeds, and the end result is hemp...
and b4 i getted 'jumped' i will concide i am a shitty grower, so a shitty grower + shitty seeds = shitty weed..
now when i have grown other seeds, even from nirvana, the end result has been light years better the sammy's (may i call u sammy??)...
so i deduct that while i am a shitty grower, even a shitty grower can grow reasonably good herb with good seeds...
merry xmas sammy....
and here it is.... he does'nt use his shitty weed to make his hash.... what weed he uses i dunno, but i've grown his seeds, and the end result is hemp...
and b4 i getted 'jumped' i will concide i am a shitty grower, so a shitty grower + shitty seeds = shitty weed..
now when i have grown other seeds, even from nirvana, the end result has been light years better the sammy's (may i call u sammy??)...
so i deduct that while i am a shitty grower, even a shitty grower can grow reasonably good herb with good seeds...
merry xmas sammy....
Ah don't we all love a good mystery!
Bubbleman, you are amazing and so are your pix!
I look forward to someone solving this mystery so we can all do this.
As much as I like hashish, I've never been 100% behind Ice Hash cause I don't like what the water does. I've always preferred a dry sift like that from the Pollinator.
I've been thinking of coming up with a better dry sift just like those photos you show. So I guess I won't wrack my brain anymore and just wait for the end of the movie where Sherlock Holmes reveals the solution to the mystery!
Bubbleman, you are amazing and so are your pix!
I look forward to someone solving this mystery so we can all do this.
As much as I like hashish, I've never been 100% behind Ice Hash cause I don't like what the water does. I've always preferred a dry sift like that from the Pollinator.
I've been thinking of coming up with a better dry sift just like those photos you show. So I guess I won't wrack my brain anymore and just wait for the end of the movie where Sherlock Holmes reveals the solution to the mystery!
vlad cosma
New member
maybe a technique called "electrostatic séparation"?
explanations here :
http://www.mine-engineer.com/mining/minproc/elstat1.htm
3 differents grades with something like that :
http://www.permanent.com/images/i-es-beneficiation.gif
and there's a lot of mines and quarries in south africa...
explanations here :
http://www.mine-engineer.com/mining/minproc/elstat1.htm
3 differents grades with something like that :
http://www.permanent.com/images/i-es-beneficiation.gif
and there's a lot of mines and quarries in south africa...
some random stoner thoughts ...
something about the physical nature of the heads vs. the rest of the material ...
the mature gland heads are "oily", hence the stickiness ... as opposed to "moist" like mostly (but not totally) dried leaf ... and maybe trichome stalk? as the temperature approaches freezing (but still above), the gland heads will be hard, like a chunk of hash cold out of the fridge. the leafy material, and maybe the trichome stalks, maintain some suppleness due to residual moisture ... maybe the moisture content of a cured bud? this keeps them from pulverizing into small particles that would slip thru the screens with the trichomes.
the longer you agitate the more chance of stalks and leaf material being torn off and falling through, so you'd only take the early sift
electrostatic is interesting, like those amber nuggets were amber rods wonder what the electrostatic properties of oily heads were like compared to dried leaf and stalks
something about the physical nature of the heads vs. the rest of the material ...
the mature gland heads are "oily", hence the stickiness ... as opposed to "moist" like mostly (but not totally) dried leaf ... and maybe trichome stalk? as the temperature approaches freezing (but still above), the gland heads will be hard, like a chunk of hash cold out of the fridge. the leafy material, and maybe the trichome stalks, maintain some suppleness due to residual moisture ... maybe the moisture content of a cured bud? this keeps them from pulverizing into small particles that would slip thru the screens with the trichomes.
the longer you agitate the more chance of stalks and leaf material being torn off and falling through, so you'd only take the early sift
electrostatic is interesting, like those amber nuggets were amber rods
wonder what the electrostatic properties of oily heads were like compared to dried leaf and stalks
