Simply Can't Get Coco to Work!

[giroldo]

this may not be the cause of your issue but from your initial post it seems you don't understand this: although the coco may be wet still when it comes time to water, it is ok to water more because the coco holds a lot of oxygen. However I would only feed wet coco if the purpose was to keep feeding with a nute solution.



Your plants look healthy, just make sure your lights aren't too close and let those roots get a little bit bigger and then they'll explode.

 

[giroldo]

I thought those pictures were yours*


Post some pictures

 

[Asslover]

I really don't understand what you guys are talking about.

What gave you the impression that I over water?

1.) I underwater like crazy. Just keep them dry for days. I wrote about how they won't die even when bone dry in my OP.

2.) Everything I've read has told me that you can't overwater Coco/Perlite because it doesn't retain water and even when wet it still holds a certain amount of air.

At the same time you're saying I should water with 20% run-off..

So, I should water until the entire pot is drenched, which is far more than I have so far, but not over-water.. Right.

I also have no idea what you guys are on about my roots. They filled the 18L pot months ago.

Let's start from a FULLY rooted (roots poking out everywhere) clone in a tiny 1x1 rockwool cube...
I use Botanicare bagged coco soooooo, i fill a small 4x4x4 pot with my coco/perlite mix. Run through fully nutrient-ed & PH'd (6 dead on is what Botanicare calls for, which is what i've used for 10 years now). Dig a hole with fingers, insert clone, put under light and only water (nutriented water EVERYTIME!!!!) when that pot becomes very light and the top of the coco is an obvious lighter brown. And yes watering means until run off, every time. Even the directions on the bag of Botanicare explains it all the same way i do it.
Ill never go back to soil again personally.

 

[Asslover]

Behold the power of Coco...

 

[skirbydog]

I really don't understand what you guys are talking about.

What gave you the impression that I over water?

1.) I underwater like crazy. Just keep them dry for days. I wrote about how they won't die even when bone dry in my OP.

2.) Everything I've read has told me that you can't overwater Coco/Perlite because it doesn't retain water and even when wet it still holds a certain amount of air.

At the same time you're saying I should water with 20% run-off..

So, I should water until the entire pot is drenched, which is far more than I have so far, but not over-water.. Right.

I also have no idea what you guys are on about my roots. They filled the 18L pot months ago.

G'day mate Ok, this is what I do downunder, ( products are for example as I don't work for the company ) I keep it as simple as possible... 2 x 25ltr oblong shape containers (will fit 4 easy in a 4x4 tent ) and fill them with 1 x 50ltr bag of coco, 1/2 each ( budget or not ). Then I water with 4-5 ltrs of tap water with Sensizyme and Voodoo ( 4-5 ltrs coz my watering can is 9ltrs so I give 1/2 each ). I then leave them for a week and then plant / transplant into them. When transplanting I use 9ltrs of grow ( 1/2 each )
After 2 or 3 weeks of veg the plants will be able to take 4-5 ltrs again, as when they're little you only need 2 ltrs around them coz the roots will just be spreading to the perimeters of the container for the first 2 weeks.
At 3-4 weeks of age the coco will take 4-5 litrs with no run-off out of the bases of containers. I water (4-5 ltrs ) every sat/sun and then again tue/wed, using nutes on sat/sun and water tue/wed. Watering is structured around plants needs but twicw a week with no runoff once cocois filled with roots...and the roots will fill the coco..."more root , more fruit"...Chemdog.
Ps I use PH-Perfect nutes with some additives peace out and good luck..challenges make you a better grower cheers skirby

 

[Asslover]

Too much math for me...
THEE golden rule with coco is too water to run off. Look at the directions on the bag, it's all right there and shit just couldn't be easier.
HOWEVER, I can't seem to master Hydroponics. Crop failure every time. So I don't grow Hydroponically...

 

[fishinnutt]

I really don't understand what you guys are talking about.

What gave you the impression that I over water?

1.) I underwater like crazy. Just keep them dry for days. I wrote about how they won't die even when bone dry in my OP.

2.) Everything I've read has told me that you can't overwater Coco/Perlite because it doesn't retain water and even when wet it still holds a certain amount of air.

At the same time you're saying I should water with 20% run-off..

So, I should water until the entire pot is drenched, which is far more than I have so far, but not over-water.. Right.

I also have no idea what you guys are on about my roots. They filled the 18L pot months ago.

Under watering coco is the worst thing to do. Absolutely water until it is so drenched that you get 20% run off out the bottom of the pot. Then don't let it dry out between waterings, it will need to be way more moist come the next watering than what you would do with a soil grow. Treat it as a hydroponic medium and use nutrients that are hydroponic and for coco, I like Jacks Professional products.

 

[dansbuds]

Under watering coco is the worst thing to do. Absolutely water until it is so drenched that you get 20% run off out the bottom of the pot. Then don't let it dry out between waterings, it will need to be way more moist come the next watering than what you would do with a soil grow. Treat it as a hydroponic medium and use nutrients that are hydroponic and for coco, I like Jacks Professional products.

you do that to fresh transplants or small clones & you'll smother the roots & they'll never grow !
untill the roots have been established in the pots , you absolutely treat it like a soil grow !!! it needs the dry cycle to make the roots look for water & grow out to fill the pots ! once that has happened , then your advice is good , not untill .

 

[fishinnutt]

you do that to fresh transplants or small clones & you'll smother the roots & they'll never grow !
untill the roots have been established in the pots , you absolutely treat it like a soil grow !!! it needs the dry cycle to make the roots look for water & grow out to fill the pots ! once that has happened , then your advice is good , not untill .

I would agree with that, they can be a handful when transplanted. I get my coco transplants watered in fully and then don't have to water them again for quite a bit. I never let coco get as dry as I can let soil get between watering. Once fully rooted I water like crazy on a timer.

 

[dansbuds]

I would agree with that, they can be a handful when transplanted. I get my coco transplants watered in fully and then don't have to water them again for quite a bit. I never let coco get as dry as I can let soil get between watering. Once fully rooted I water like crazy on a timer.

I agree with that . i go by pot weight , if its half as heavy as when it was wet , i'll feed it again , never let them get bone dry ..... thats where problems start .

its a fine line that takes some time to learn .

 

[siftedunity]

yeah , let it dry out so the roots can grow . you've saturated the coco so much i'm surprised they're still alive .

coco can only be fed daily or multiple times once the roots are established in the pot . untill then you treat it pretty much like soil . it needs the dry cycle for roots to grow out looking for nurishment .

5.9 PH is the sweet spot where all nutrients are available to the plant , but a drift of 5.5 to 6.2 is better so they uptake the nutrients at their desired levels .

there is ALOT to learn about coco before you jump in & use it like you did . i suggest you do some reading before you try it again . theres a cation balance that needs to be considered , its a salty medium , so there NEEDS to be runoff or toxic levels of salts can build up & kill your plants .

Do some reading here my friend before you come in slamming a medium that does very very well IF used correctly !!!


EDIT : oh , & 1 last thing i forgot to mention ...... perilite in coco is a complete waste of time & money !

agree with everything there apart from coco doesn't need run off and I wouldn't ph anything lower than 5.7.
ive found with coco everyone has there own little habits so not trying to split hairs. coco is versatile so can work well with a lot of individual tweaks.

 

[dansbuds]

I tell all newcomers to coco to feed till runoff then suck it out or drain it off right away . you never know what a newbie is feeding or how strong . as you know coco is a salty medium to begin with & can build up nutes/salts very quickly to a toxic level . so to be safe & not have those build up problems that can easily occur , your better off having runoff & getting rid of it right way to flush out the feeds from the previous day & refresh with new . at least untill you get to know coco & its reactions better ..... better safe than sorry has always been my motto .
its like the theory of feeding till you see burn then back off on the feeds . thats gotta be the stupidest thing i ever read ! i feed light right from the start & add more if the plant needs it ...... its easier to feed more than to have to flush out an over fed plant & then feed it less ........





not sure what happened to my last post .... showed up as a double post & then dissappeared .

 

[Tonygreen]

Dually noted.

 

[Ganja baba]

I really don't understand what you guys are talking about.

What gave you the impression that I over water?

1.) I underwater like crazy. Just keep them dry for days. I wrote about how they won't die even when bone dry in my OP.

2.) Everything I've read has told me that you can't overwater Coco/Perlite because it doesn't retain water and even when wet it still holds a certain amount of air.

At the same time you're saying I should water with 20% run-off..

So, I should water until the entire pot is drenched, which is far more than I have so far, but not over-water.. Right.

I also have no idea what you guys are on about my roots. They filled the 18L pot months ago.

Sounds like you need higher ec then mate , 1.8 never give plain water , if roots are massive saturate pot let Frisch for a few days and do it again , if the room is aggressive you can drop feed till you see some water coming out the bottom of the pots , and feed them upto 5 times a day like this ,

 

[LyryC]

5.5 ph = aluminum availability = plant toxicity problems.

5.6 lowest safe ph, for most horticulture, but there are acid loving plants, like blueberries.

Cannabis grows in very diverse climates. Certain strains have very high aridity tolerance. There is a sweet spot in coco, letting it dry out just before wilt, which lets the plant absorb more oxygen than it normally does, remember roots need oxygen.

With that said, Wet coco has the highest air to water ratio, being 22% air. When watering, one can hear the snap crack pop and sizzle in the medium once the water starts to go down. These are bubbles, oxygenating the medium. If the coco is too dry, this won't happen, because there are no pockets of air and water being replaced, hence the air moves up, and pop go the little bubbles, as the water moves down. With wet coco, the oxygen is replenished and gives the plant "fresh air". The magic of coco that makes it hydro. Based on the many variables we understand that are part of growing, this lets us water more frequently which in turn provides the plants with more oxygen increasing everything.

Also wet coco, doesn't have salts that dry out, which creates build up, which creates imbalance. Letting coco dry out, allows salts to gather on the outside of hte coco particles as the water evaporates it pulls the salts with it, if you water sometimes you can notice an oil like skim on the water in the pot, those are the salts that dried and are not immediately water soluble on top of the medium. The wet coco doesn't have this problem and the new fresh water and feed coming in, replenishes the salts with a balanced mix, thats ph'd properly, creating the proper positive and negative bonds for hte nutrient ions, aka CEC Cation Exchange Capacity. Coco can only hold so much salt.

So drying out coco is a must like Dansbud says for freshly potted plants, but overall as a growing trend, it is not healthy for the plant or medium.

Smart pots are a great example as they should never go dry, or else you will see the salt build up on the outside of them rather quickly. Same goes for coco, letting the water dry, leaves just the salts, and not washing them away with a Run off, creates a toxic build up that only gets worse as you add salts.

Never compact coco, Buy bagged, prewashed and buffered coco. The compressed bricks are the cheap shit, not medicinal grade.
Less is more with coco. Smaller pots = faster dry times = more feedings = larger fruits. GSC loves 2 gallon pots where you can feed her 3 times per cycle.
USE MICROBES!!! Innoculate inoculate inoculate!!!
AACT
600ppms - 1000ppms if your environment is that crazy or 1.2 ec to 2.0 ec
ph 5.8 is ideal, but +/- a point or two won't hurt. Don't chase ph, use Advanced nutrients PH up/Down, it doesn't add ppms.

Coco is easy and fun, apart from the dam mess it makes some times.

 

[Levitationofme]

I did my first run in Coco coir. It was great. Only things that held my grow back was ME.

Still though I was lucky. I had issues as well. Turned out water source was fucked up. I have well and a bunch of resin tanks with different resins designed to destink and soften water. I got a R/O filter and took raw water and ran that thru.
Huge Difference...
Lesson learned.
Did you check ppm of nutrients? Did you water Everytime with full strength nutes?
Did you flush every week or two.
Did you run clean water thru Coco to clean it out before you transplanted.
Coco is not like soil. You do have to water to run off. You need to replace the oxygen
You almost can't over water them. Coco holds only so much. The rest runs off.
It seems anti intuitive to drain away nutrient. But that's what most people do.
If you tried to water them like they were in soil, it's usually a fail.

I would feed one day, water 2 days, feed again. Repeatedly then flushed every 2 weeks .

I then moved to a much lower ppm (800) and watered every watering with weak nutrients until full flowering
Then I ramped up nutrients.

 

[au_]

I've gone soil to coco before and I'll never do it again. Way too many weird issues, especially while they transitioned to the new medium and nute schedule.

 

[DoomsDay]

the way im interpreting what the OP ius saying, he doesnt even have drain holes in his pot. so when he hears yall say water until 20% run off, he is thinking yall are filling the pot with water then having it overflow???? hmmm... either way OP, myself and the hundreds of others on here that successfully grow in coco vs soil seem to be doing just fine, so instead of flipping shit and jumping the gun and being a typical over-reactionary individual of the new millennium, take a deep breath and look at what YOU are doing wrong. the plant is merely responding to what youre doing to it. some of the most intelligent and knowledgeable coco growers have stopped in to aid you in your issues and still you go about it all hostile as if someone here infected your plants with misfortune.

relax and listen to what youre being told numerous times by numerous voices... they have gotten where they are because of trial and error.. not whimsical luck.

 

[stoned40yrs]

The answer is simple. The OP didn't read enough about coco before he jumped in. I'm sure I spent well over a hundred hours reading about this magical media before I pulled the trigger and bought some. Now he pays the price for not getting the knowledge first.

 

[dansbuds]

The answer is simple. The OP didn't read enough about coco before he jumped in. I'm sure I spent well over a hundred hours reading about this magical media before I pulled the trigger and bought some. Now he pays the price for not getting the knowledge first.

Exactly !!!! & he comes off with an attitude to boot !!! like we're the idiots & he knows WTF he's doing ......