Side by side grow. 630 CMH vs 1000HPS

[Dirt Bag]

The shielded version is meant for use on people not plants.

This is not true.

This bulb is specially designed for use on plants.
Almost every other Philips CDM bulbs are made with a product called Fadeblock (A specially designed glass that blocks some UV to protect people and help reduce fabric colors from fading and such) including the 4200K. This is why there are so many reports of people getting better results from the 3100K, even in veg.
Hence the name, Greenpower Elite AGRO
IMHO This is THEE light to be using right now folks.

 

[issack]

That's what the man said - they are basically similar but the Nanolux 630s create a hotspot right beneath them that isn't there with the 1ks, so the 630s run the same heat except for the hotspot. Here's a graph from cycloptics of the nanolux 630 - I'd say there's a pretty obvious hot spot they create

View Image

And let's not kid ourselves here, there's no way a bare bulb design will ever be as cool as a really well done air cooled hood.

Now just add something to think about - I just switched a 400 watt hps out with a 315 cmh, using a conversation kit, so I'm still using the same air cooled hood I did with the 400 watt. I'm seeing reduced temperatures, fatter buds, and I can still have plants within a half foot or so away from the hood without any issue. To be honest, I'm surprised I don't see more people using air cooled cmh. From my understanding, you're really only going to get the same special spectrum and bulb life if you run them in that special vertically oriented hood, not in a horizontally oriented hood like the nanolux 630, so why not throw some in some air cooled hoods?

Dirtbag - unless you live in an area with a similar environment, have the same exact cooling set up, and same layout, his temps are going to be different than your temps. I don't think anyone is trying to insult your intelligence, I think he just doesn't see how that's more helpful than what he's already said. I think bottom line is you'd have to grab a set and see how it performs in your space, or find a friend with a set to borrow/check out.

but at the same time

Issack - you're still running this set up with the dosidos, right? If you happen to have the time, maybe tape a couple thermometers to a yard stick and put it in the room for a minute, I know a couple of members you would make very happy doing this . And again, thanks for doing this man, this really is one of the best side by side comparisons I've ever seen here.

This is a great graph that explains the hot spot. So from 2 feet from the canopy on this last run the hot spot was only 12 inches in diameter. Pretty small but it was hot.

Yes I'm still running this set up on the current dosido run. And I cant wait to get rid of these last 4 hps.!! These little 630s and so small and light. They are just better all around to grow with.

Hey dirt bag... I apologize for being snappy and I wasn't singling you out. I just had a shitty day that day and I was being grumpy. That was out of character for me and again I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence man.

I really can't do an accurate heat reading right now with exact distances with my canopy right now in this room.. my plants are shooting for the sky and it's a jungle in there right now so what I can do is at the end of this grow I can hang a yardstick and get some exact meter readings before I take out the HPS and replace the last 4.. I dont have a thermometer. I'll have to get one..

I did do a test in the beginning before I even planted the room when I put the lights in. I ran the 633s for about 4 hours just by themselves alone with everything else running in the room, CO2 dehumidifiers, the whole nine. I turned those off and switched on the HPS and ran those for 4 hours. there was a one degree difference cooler on the 630 side if that helps.

Dirt bag I promise you if you take out your air-cooled thousands and replace them with these you will be fine. If anything my room runs cooler with these..those hoods aren't exactly are tight. You're still going to be drawing some in room air out through them no matter what. That being said your ac has to make up for that. and also your CO2 being taken, so there is heat factors there big time. With a totally sealed room and those lights not being exhausted it's just a better tight ship and a better running environment for me.

I have learned to keep these lights up high the higher the better almost. I left these lights on the ceiling when I put my cuttings in there.. my clones weren't even 8"tall and these things grew with huge thick fat branches with my lights being up almost seven feet above them, so that being said these things put out some serious light. getting them close the canopy really isn't efficient because it doesn't throw out a big wide spread right off the gate like thousands do in the hoods. it's a subtle pyramid of a light spectrum that spreads out.. if you look at all the Growers that are doing it professional for the dispensaries that have these lights these things are like five feet above the canopy. So I have found out that about three to three and a half feet above the top of the canopy is pretty ideal. My last run when it was about 2 feet above the canopy I lost light on the edges. I would have got a bigger yield if my lights are up another foot in this last run..

A lot of good info you guys just posted in the last few days. I'm about to go in my room and do some defoliation and Branch cutting.. I'll come back tomorrow and chat more about it. good stuff guy's thanks for adding your info in here about the lighting and stuff. I'm no rocket scientist.. I just plug lights in and grown man that's all..you guys are the experts with getting deep with all that stuff about different spectrums.. I really don't look into that.. I appreciate the info though I'm learning from you guys about this stuff. But one thing I can again I sure all of you that these 630 s smoke HPS thousands out of the water in every aspect

 

[Dirt Bag]

No worries Isaak, It's all good. We're definitely switching over. Do your lights draw from outside of the room and vent out of the room? Our lights draw air from the grow and blow it right back into the room. Basically just a big tube air heater. The hot air just gets recirculated. I'm sure our electric bill will be a lot less and the air will run less.
Found what I think are these acceptable fixtures on Ebay for an astonishingly low $171! They have an adjustable hood to widen/lessen the footprint, are multi-voltage, dimmable (with 720w OD), chainable up to 8 on 240, and are even sealed, wet condition rated. I'm always skeptical when buying Chinese stuff from eBay, but free shipping and free returns with eBay guarantee makes them very hard to pass up.
*Oops! That link above is for the fixed hood, but the other kind is also available on ebay for a similar price. In fact, this link isn't the sealed or chainable one. So many posts use the same image on suckBay. Ugh!

 

[issack]

Yes I absolutely pull in the outside air then back out to cool my HPS. I've done that with every room I've ever built. Seeing as that is what you're doing now and just creating a heat vortex in your room... you're 100% going to see a HUGE temperature drop with adding the cmh. Your ac is going to thank you.! Lol

I'm a huge eBay shopper myself. I seen those lights and looked into them but China stuff is kind of hard for me to deal.. with especially if one breaks down, you already know the drill how long it takes to ship it back and get a return so that being said, I would get an extra lamp especially since it's so cheap.. just so you have a backup. when you have a light fail in the middle of a grow it's pretty bad.. but then you never know those lights could be bad ass and preform for years. I'm interested to see how they work for you.

 

[issack]

Also I use the Phillips 3100k full spectrum throughout the whole grow.

I just noticed again looking at those hoods. That they are from a California dealer. I thought you were ordering from china at first look. Yeah man grab those . Looks like a good unit. I was thinking about shipping from china and having to return if there was a problem. But it's a us dealer so easy money.

 

[BlindDate]

View Image
This bulb is specially designed for use on plants.
Almost every other Philips CDM bulbs are made with a product called Fadeblock (A specially designed glass that blocks some UV to protect people and help reduce fabric colors from fading and such) including the 4200K. This is why there are so many reports of people getting better results from the 3100K, even in veg.
Hence the name, Greenpower Elite AGRO
IMHO This is THEE light to be using right now folks.

First, no the bulb was not originally designed for plants. That is the exact same bulb that started showing up on these boards 5 years ago. It was made to replace 400 watt MH warehouse lighting, hence the weird wattage number (315). It was discovered to have favorable PAR output and is now being used on plants. Phillips writing "Green" on the box is only advertising.

Having said that, there is a difference between growing plants and growing OUR plants. Most plants grow fine whether you use a shielded or UN-shielded version. Marijuana however benefits greatly from added UV exposure particularly related to Trichome production. You can buy the bulb either shielded or not. Or, you can remove the shield as I suggested,. Or you can do what all professional growers are doing which is to simply go with the DE version. The 630 watt DE version is NOT shielded nor does it have glass.

 

[issack]

So taking off this UV jacket around the bulbs.? Its night and day.? Is there a side by side somewhere about this.? I'm on the fence as well here. And thinking if this is a must to do to your bulbs then we would have heard about this with a ton of information. Cmh had been around for years now. This is the first I have ever heard of this.
I wanna learn more about this. And maybe I'll run a side by side next run with the modified bulbs. Seems sketchy though. But I'm a risk taker. ��

 

[CannaRed]

I wanna learn more about this. And maybe I'll run a side by side next run with the modified bulbs. Seems sketchy though. But I'm a risk taker. ��

Let us know if you do! Can't wait to see it and we all know that you are the person for the job! You run excellent side by side.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Hortilux has a cmh bulb with no uv filter. Might be a good place to look for more info. I'm sure there's a reason they went that route.

 

[MedResearcher]

Good find Scrappy, thanks.

Guess time will tell, but sort of doubt Hortilux would sell an unsafe bulb. Makes me lean towards the conclusion that the sleeve is not needed.

A little piece of possible evidence. This quote from earlier, "A specially designed glass that blocks some UV to protect people and help reduce fabric colors from fading and such." Then on the Hortilux page, "Most ceramic metal halide lamps were designed for use in the retail space." The interesting part is about fabrics fading, as in, they wanted to block the UV's because they are bad for people but also so they would not degrade clothes in the mall...


Those eye hoods claim no hot spots, but man are they over priced!

The price difference on the CMH units is insane. The most generic down to $250 for a 315, while on the other end over $500.

Mr^^

 

[Dirt Bag]

Good find Scrappy, thanks.

Guess time will tell, but sort of doubt Hortilux would sell an unsafe bulb. Makes me lean towards the conclusion that the sleeve is not needed.

A little piece of possible evidence. This quote from earlier, "A specially designed glass that blocks some UV to protect people and help reduce fabric colors from fading and such." Then on the Hortilux page, "Most ceramic metal halide lamps were designed for use in the retail space." The interesting part is about fabrics fading, as in, they wanted to block the UV's because they are bad for people but also so they would not degrade clothes in the mall...


Those eye hoods claim no hot spots, but man are they over priced!

The price difference on the CMH units is insane. The most generic down to $250 for a 315, while on the other end over $500.

Mr^^

Wow. What a pathetic attempt to take words out of context. The important part you neglected to include is the actual information. Fadeblock® is indeed for just that, retail type lighting. But Fadeblock® is NOT used in the specially designed agro bulb. And, if you look closely you'll see that the Eye Hortilux CMH does have 2 layers of glass. If you can afford them, I'm sure they're great.
Not sure why you're arguing this. It's really just stupid to buy a shielded bulb and then possibly damage it removing the shield when they are sold that way. It's like cutting the roof off a sedan to make a convertible.

 

[AgentPothead]

Hey Dirt Bag, why do you have to act like a Dirt Bag? Nobody cares about your posturing on the internet buddy.

 

[Dirt Bag]

It appears that many brands of open rated CMH are made with a spring loaded failsafe that prevents the shield from being removed, including Philips. The Hortilux bulb is only available in 4200K and is recommended for veg. @ $77 it's probably the best choice for veg.


Posturing. That all you got? Heh. Weak sauce.

 

[JROCKIN]

Issack you da man!!! Such an insperation! I love how you share small little details of you day to day routines and howe you give some insight on how you live as a grower. Like your cars and car guy status. I'm a car guy also! I'm a fox body mustang guy with a degree in high performance. But anyway I couldn't remember any of my old account info so I started over and you were a major reason I wanted to become active in this community again. Awesome grow, that is exactly the setup I see myself growing into in a few years. Right now I'm an a 2x4 tent with a 600w. Running coco dtw. I can consistently hit 14-16Oz with auto flowers and I'm now 4 weeks into flower on my first photo period run. Quick question I had a bottle of unopened sm90 sitting around and your thread inspired me to try it at 5ml/gal in my rez. I now have a slime on my power cords for my pumps when before with H2O2 heck even with out it, I never had any slime. Running 6/9 with protekt if it matters. I'm running it in hempy buckets so it worries me if slime is forming in a heavily circulated and airated rez. What's it gonna do sitting in the bottom of my bucket for hours? Do you experience the slime?

 

[watts]

What do you use to adjust pH, Jrock? I had some slime like that when I used sm-90 and citric acid as pH down. When I switched to phosphoric acid there was no slime.

 

[JROCKIN]

Bleach in rez

Bleach in rez

Also I'm really interested in running bleach in my rez until I read ( prolly in this thread) someone say it killed flavor and aroma. Neither of wich have I had much of lately so I'm doing everything I can on this run to make sure I harvest some loud as buds! So any other input or opinions on this matter? Anybody run bleach and produce loud as weed? Anybody that produced the dank without bleach but then not with the bleach? Any other input on producing stinky delicious herb in coco with synthetic ferts? Due to mainly Issac I am convinced cmh is the way to go so the next bit of cash I have to put into my garden will be swapping out my 600w with a 315 cmh! Can I really yield the same or better with almost half the wattage?!! Any ideas as to how well one will cover a rectangular 2x4 tent? And how much clearance from the canopy should I plan for?

 

[BlindDate]

CMH

CMH

I did not bring up the UV issue to start a fight, only to point out a possible enhancement. Is it going to make a night and day difference? Probably not. Attached are picts of several grow bulbs that do not have filters. The only way we will know for sure is if someone does a side by side.

HORTILUX 315 watt

DIGILAMP SINGLE ENDED CMH 945 Watt

DIGILAMP Double Ended CMH 945 Watt. They also make a 630 Watt DE Bulb

HERE IS A NEW ONE NOT OUT YET

 

[JROCKIN]

Watts I'm using GH liquid pH down. I believe it's phos. I add 1-2 ml/gal of protekt to straight culligan ro water. Then micro, then bloom (heads 6/9), then 1/2g/gal Epsom, then a very small amount of PH down (usually no more than 1/2ml/gal). Then I added sm90 last. This is my first time running sm90 and it made me have to quadruple the amount of pH down. BTW I let everything mix at least 20 min before adding the next ingredient in my soup.

 

[BlindDate]

Hey JROCKIN

Everyone has some slime in the rez. It is normal. It is not normal to run bleach in your rez nor will it have any effect on taste or smell. Bleach and H2O2 will only kill beneficial bacteria. Just leave it alone. Also don't run SM-90 or add Epsom salts unless you actually have a problem with the plants.

Regarding swapping out a 600 watt hps for a 315 cmh and expecting the same yield. You will not get the same yield. I guarantee it. However, a 630 cmh will most likely outperform the 600 hps.

They are currently working on a 500 watt CMH as a tit for tat replacement for the 600hps.

 

[Dirt Bag]

DIY CLEAR REZ

DIY CLEAR REZ

We don't have any slime. Our reservoirs are immaculate. How often do we clean them? Never. Well, I did have to when I first got mosquito dunks for fungus gnats (By the way, don't just toss those in willy-nilly. They dissolve into equipment-clogging bits that are a huge pain in the ass. Get these screen balls to put them into). But I digress...

How do we do it? Easy. Clear Rez®. Though we make our own. How? Buying a 1 lb bag of HTH Pool shock non PH buffered available online, most hardware, and pool supply stores, which is where we got ours.
Mix 1 GRAM (450 in the bag) per gallon of clean water. This willmake the same concentration of the SAME EXACT product. $4 will make you 450 gallons of the stuff and will treat over 286,000 gallons of water!! We add 6ml/gal of reservoir and stay sparkling clean.