SICK GIRLS. nute diffiency or something else? [pics]

[HuffAndPuff]

Stitch, The bad advice was telling somebody who is in the final stages of flowering, and already flushing, that there are having a Nitrogen deficiency and that they should fertilize with nitrogen. That is absurd. Obviously, the plant is going to need SOME Nitrogen at that stage, but what is left in the soil, and being washed out should be more than enough. At the final stages of flowering a plant SHOULD BE NITROGEN DEFICIENT!

As far as this thread goes, I guess we just have differing opinions. And even if Heady is Uncle Ben, that info still pertains to overfert, which I do not believe this is.
If you guys are telling me that this photo doesn't look like magnesium deficiency, then I don't know what to say. Just look at it compared to the picture on weedman's page. And yes stitch, that photo is of a plant in flower.
http://weed.to/inverse/101007/images/img_2810.jpg

Either way, inverse, sorry if this info has left you off more confused than when you asked the question. That wasn't my intent, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't stitch's either. That's the thing about growing weed, everyone has their own way, and we don't always agree. Stitch, sorry if I came off as harsh, bro. I think it may have something to do with just recently learning that a certain poster to this forum is known for repeatedly, and possibly purposely, offering bad advice. They apparently don't grow, and have been banned before for offering bad advice to newbs. The whole "add N to a plant that you're final-flushing" thing made me think that this was more of that. Then when I looked at that photo, and thought that it looked like Magnesium def. and the first thing you said was that it absolutely wasn't... I dunno. I prolly reacted more than if we had just disagreed sans me having aforementioned information.

I'm not trying to be a dick, or confuse anyone. At the end of the day, we should take all advice with a grain of salt, anyways. These are our plants, and we are responsible for them. If we come to a point where we don't know what to do, we are responsible for who's information we choose to listen to. Good luck growing to ALL, and I'm sorry if I made any waves. Just tryin' to help...

HuffAndPuff

 

[Levitikuz]

Ill have to agree with huff, those pics really look like mag def.
But it could also be burn but leaning alot more towards a Mg problem...
heres some pics of Mg def. where its starting on the top of the plant in veg http://www.ganjaguerrilla.net/
They also show how it can look like burn starting at the tips of leaves and bruning away looking like a nute burn.
and theres also pics of Mg def. with the brown spots also...
so i would say its a Mg def. not a nute burn, but either way hope you fix your problem

later

 

[inverse]

Ill have to agree with huff, those pics really look like mag def.
But it could also be burn but leaning alot more towards a Mg problem...
heres some pics of Mg def. where its starting on the top of the plant in veg http://www.ganjaguerrilla.net/
They also show how it can look like burn starting at the tips of leaves and bruning away looking like a nute burn.
and theres also pics of Mg def. with the brown spots also...
so i would say its a Mg def. not a nute burn, but either way hope you fix your problem

later

wow thanks for that link! i looked at the ph section and the spotting looks exactly like my plants.

 

[HuffAndPuff]

Thanks for that link dude! That's bookmarked now. And upon reviewing those pictures, I would have to say that I stand firm on my diagnosis.

 

[MynameStitch]

I have never been banned don't know where you got that info not to mention final stages of flowering? Wth ever man flowering plants still newed nitrogen as long as it's not 2 weeks before harvest and it looks like he is not through harvest yet.

Florigen even admits it's not magnsieum issue and he has been growing for a long time and was a former overgrow mentor so before you doubt him make sure you know who the person is.

I know this plant is in flowering but what I mean by flowering is later stages of flowering when they have a lot of buds on them.


For your information I have grown for years before I got busted many many strains and the only reason why I am not growing now is because I am on probation.

Well I stand firm on my diagnosis; definatly NOT a magniseum issue here.


Hey

 

[MynameStitch]

alright i really appreciate the interest in this thread guys, from ALL of you

to answer your question stitch, i have a 2 gallon water container. i put 1/4 strength into that 2 gallon, and gave my plants enough water that some came out the bottom.

my odyssey started having the curling down leaf tips a few days BEFORE the first feeding however. this is why i thought it was just natural until it started drooping and stuff. Another interesting thing to keep in mind is that i got the master kush clone a few days before i fed my plants and stupidly i gave it the nutes along with the other plants. at the time i really felt like it was a ph thing, but now i think i overfed it, as it was quite small at the time. on the other hand, i don't know how 2 feedings to my other plants, which are all around 14 inches tall, could cause these spotting problems with no tell tale leaf tip burns (except on the master kush). Feel free to correct me here because, again, im a noob!

Its also interesting to note that my 2 month-old northern lights (from seed) have shown no ill signs that the other plants have, although they were only fed once not twice. today, however, the leaf tips on the top of my biggest nl are drooping down (just the tips), but i think its because they all need a good watering.

So my plan of action at this point is to give the girls a good flushing tonight. I'll measure runoff ph for you guys and over the next few days see how they respond. If they get worse would that prove nute def? if they stay the same and the new growths are fine ill chalk it up to burn/ph. am i way off base or no?

Again, thanks for all of the help, especially the long in depth posts from stich and huff. they make it easy for me, a beginner

edit:::
to throw in one final variable, could any of these symptoms be caused by heat stress? my thermometer never gets above 82 or 83 and is usually at about 79, taped on the wall of my closet at the height of the top of the plants. however, i dont have that much confidence in it (its sort of shitty). i know this doesnt leave you with much, but just in general could any of those pics be caused by heat stress or no...

How long did you have them in the soil before they had this issue? Because if they were doing this before hand then the soil was rich for them.

I would flush like you said and then go from there I still say this is not a magniseum issue and will stand by this. Everyone has there opinions and are entitled to them whole heartedly; and I respect that.

No this is not realted to heat issue right now......

also remember this..... make sure you measure the ph after you have flushed well. What size pots are they in? You want to use a lot of water so say they are in 5 gallon pots if so than you need 8 to 10 gallons to fully flush them; if you don't want tp use that much use 5 or 6 gallons of water.

 

[MynameStitch]

I'm not trying to be a dick, or confuse anyone. At the end of the day, we should take all advice with a grain of salt, anyways. These are our plants, and we are responsible for them. If we come to a point where we don't know what to do, we are responsible for who's information we choose to listen to. Good luck growing to ALL, and I'm sorry if I made any waves. Just tryin' to help...

HuffAndPuff[

I agree with you with you on that HUff :tup:

 

[HuffAndPuff]

Ok, so you have reading, as well as writing, comprehension problems. I wasn't talking about you having been banned, I was clearly talking about another poster that I left un-named. Also, in that other thread, the poster clearly said that he was in the final flushing stage of the game. So, yeah, you are just WRONG. AGAIN.

Furthermore I don't give a slippery shit what flourigen thinks. He and you claim that he is a 'former overgrow mentor'. Do I know him? Nope. Do I care if he was? Nope. Do I think you are both wrong? yes. And I know you are going to deny it, but I think you two are one and the same. I mentioned this to someone before you just made this post, where you state that you are on probation.
Flourigen said:
"SInce Im on probation I dont have many posts left....
One good clue is the tips on the different plants....
the others show no tip burn.... the sd does at an early stage....
That suggests the ffof and problend may be too rich for it....."

I guess you guys just must have a lot in common. See him soon ;P huh? Later, gator.

 

[Levitikuz]

wow thanks for that link! i looked at the ph section and the spotting looks exactly like my plants.

Thanks for that link dude! That's bookmarked now. And upon reviewing those pictures, I would have to say that I stand firm on my diagnosis.

No problem guys, i love that site to death! It has so much information and great pictures to go along with it...

take it easy peeps!

 

[MynameStitch]

NUte burn does not always start in tips; can be a sign but sometimes it can cause ph issues first depends on strain related; he did not get banned he just erases his name for security issues.

I do not need reading and comprehension help
I am done fighting cause this thread is going to shit; if you have something to say huff pm me.

 

[inverse]

flushed. runoff with this good water is 6.48

 

[MynameStitch]

Will take a bit before she recovers and the damaged leaves won't recover just make sure you watch newer growth and semi newer growths above the affected area does not spread.

All strains are different which is why you are having random issues.

How big was the plant in the picture when you put it in FFOF? also when you say 1/4 strength how much like teaspoons? tablespoon?

 

[Levitikuz]

6.5 ph is fine in soil...that shouldnt effect your plants growth if everything else is on =]

Heres a good chart you can go by, and this chart is for the growth of are favorite but illegal friend...Marijuana! http://www.gardenscure.com/420/attachments/hydroponics/128649d1116061394-ph-level-nutrient_chart.gif

take er easy will ya earl!

lol later man

 

[Guest]

Stitch, The bad advice was telling somebody who is in the final stages of flowering, and already flushing, that there are having a Nitrogen deficiency and that they should fertilize with nitrogen. That is absurd. Obviously, the plant is going to need SOME Nitrogen at that stage, but what is left in the soil, and being washed out should be more than enough. At the final stages of flowering a plant SHOULD BE NITROGEN DEFICIENT!

As far as this thread goes, I guess we just have differing opinions. And even if Heady is Uncle Ben, that info still pertains to overfert, which I do not believe this is.
If you guys are telling me that this photo doesn't look like magnesium deficiency, then I don't know what to say. Just look at it compared to the picture on weedman's page. And yes stitch, that photo is of a plant in flower.
http://weed.to/inverse/101007/images/img_2810.jpg

Either way, inverse, sorry if this info has left you off more confused than when you asked the question. That wasn't my intent, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't stitch's either. That's the thing about growing weed, everyone has their own way, and we don't always agree. Stitch, sorry if I came off as harsh, bro. I think it may have something to do with just recently learning that a certain poster to this forum is known for repeatedly, and possibly purposely, offering bad advice. They apparently don't grow, and have been banned before for offering bad advice to newbs. The whole "add N to a plant that you're final-flushing" thing made me think that this was more of that. Then when I looked at that photo, and thought that it looked like Magnesium def. and the first thing you said was that it absolutely wasn't... I dunno. I prolly reacted more than if we had just disagreed sans me having aforementioned information.

I'm not trying to be a dick, or confuse anyone. At the end of the day, we should take all advice with a grain of salt, anyways. These are our plants, and we are responsible for them. If we come to a point where we don't know what to do, we are responsible for who's information we choose to listen to. Good luck growing to ALL, and I'm sorry if I made any waves. Just tryin' to help...

HuffAndPuff

Pretty funny shit....

like dude...

the picture shows the veins are lighter than the between the veins....

What Mg def is is interveinal chlorosis.....

thats like the area between the veins......

Do you actually grow????


rotflmfao......

That pic shows a very healthy plant......

 

[inflorescence]

argh not the dreaded ph issue again. i just checked the water that i used for my last watering with my hanna checker. it was from the water store that has been consistently giving me ph of 6.6. but this time it was 7.6. i don't know if thats a big enough difference in one watering to have caused my problems,

Are you using distilled water as your base for your nutes.
If so, the nutes your using are notoriuos for lowering the pH hard and fast. You need buffer in your water or a pH up.
I think you pH shocked 'em.
Those necrotic spots look like exactly what I get when I go from regular water (read high pH) to a fert solution (read low pH).
They just can't adjust to the pH swing that fast.

 

[HeadyPete]

Hi everyone, sure took awhile to get my head around this thread ...

There are a couple different plants with different issues, mostly ph related, but also heat stressed. You say your thermometer is shitty, plus it is hotter under the light. Is this where you are taking your temp, or is it one the side? The intense light can overheat even if the temps seem good. Do you have a max/min digi thermometer? 600 watts is a lot of light for young plants. Aircooled?

The AK is starting ph lockout and I think it could be manganese (not 100% sure), with those spots starting and some slight yellowing, which could be manganese or possibly nitrogen. 1/4 strength gro (2 feedings) plus 600 watts = possibly nitrogen def from high rate of growth. I'd have to see if this gets worse after fixing ph as I don't recognize what those little spots are, but feel they are lockout of something. If you aren't checking and adjusting ph with a good digi tester, than you are flying blind and hoping for the best. Some people have their system and it works and that's great, but others do not and it is usually ph related problems they encounter. Understanding and controlling ph is key to great growing success.

Having plants that are deficient in manganese can turn the young leaves into spotted (mottled) yellow and or brown areas on young leaves. Dead (Necrotic) yellow spots form on top leaves, while the lower older leaves will or may have gray specks and or spots. Symptoms can include yellowing of leaves while the leaf veins can stay green. Can also produce a chequered effect. As the plant gets newer growths the plant will seem to grow away from the problem, that’s why the younger leaves may be unaffected. On the top of the leaves, brown spots can appear. While the severe areas of the leaves turn brown and wither.

Your runoff sounds good now, 6.5 or whatever, keep it there. You need to test and adjust your water after adding ferts. Doesn't matter what the ph of the water is if you are putting in nutes. It's the end mix that counts. Most organic nutes are acidic and will drop your ph right down. If there is lime in your soil than the low ph will be counteracted to a point, but no lime will give very acidic soil. Plants do not like wild ph swings, and that will kill aquarium fish.

Mix your watering solution, whatever it may be, and test it and adjust it. Where you adjust it to depends on the ph of the soil. If it is above 6.6, the nutes need to be below that the same amount to balance out at 6.6. Right now your runoff is good. If it lowers, back off the ph down (or add ph up). If the runoff is too high, add ph down (or back off the ph up)

I think the feedings are okay and I would stick with that (1/4 strength) until these other ph issues are fixed. Watch the tips of your leaves and if they start to get a good little bit of browning, "tip burn", then your nutes are as strong as they should be, for that stage of the plants life. If it is early flowering she will take more over time. If it is the end of veg, back off a bit on the gro as you switch to bloom.

Now, as for nitrogen, some people back it off, some keep it going throughout flowering. Plants need some N, but that need diminishes as the plant nears the end of it's life and it draws N from the oldest leaves. The theory behind backing it off and getting yellowed fan leaves at harvest goes to reducing chlorophyll in the plant so the smoke tastes better at smoke time, less like hay or dry grass. Also excess N at finish will delay and possibly prevent full maturation. You also get N from other additives, the CalMax I use is a 2-0-0. Try two plants side by side and see if there is a difference in a yellow plant and a nice green one at smoke time.

The Odyssey is a tricky one, as I don't see any discolorations, but I do see the funky new leaf growth. Could be ph as well, but also it looks like when my clones are getting parched before they grow roots. 600 watts seems a little bright to me for these 3 week old plants. That's really driving them hard. Is that Odyssey directly under the light, in the hot spot? It looks like it may be overheated and also nute sensitive. Some pix match the down cupped droopy leaves as overfert.

This one I would water again with ph adjusted water and observe. If it improves then start with 1/4 strength gro again. Now that ph is good, any problems will be nute related, not ph.

The ECSD is not magnesium def, there are no green veins in his pix. Everyone acknowledges that mag def shows yellowed leaves with green veins, starting at the top, but no green veins on that ECSD. In fact, except for the cupping leaves, it looks real good. This looks like a heat issue, either from the temps or the light is too close. The pix on that ganjaguerrilla link confirm the up-cupped leaves and heat stress.

The masterkush is exhibiting advanced ph issues, causing lockout.

The best course of action is to keep an eye on the ph, keep it 6.5 to 6.8 runoff and keep feeding the 1/4 strength grow. If all looks good and the plants are bigger, increase to half strength and observe. You have different strains so you have to learn each strains' requirements.

I don't see any overfeeding and with 2 waterings of 1/4 strength FF gro under 600, I don't think that is too much. If there was nutes in the soil it would be gone after 2 weeks. I water with nutes almost every watering until final flush and my girls are just at the edge of insanity now, with a few weeks till finish. Because of the real good tipburn I have, I just gave the one a break with plain ph adjusted water, first time since she was little, but next watering back on the heavy bud building schedule and see how she likes it.

Also, confirm that your light isn't too close and confirm temps are not spiking too high at any time. Heat and ph.....

Good luck. I'll be checking in.

 

[HeadyPete]

Ph is logarithmic. 7.6 is 10 times as alkaline as 6.6 and 100 times more alkaline than 5.6.

It is very important to be accurate to the first decimal point. "Close" is not good enough. Plants hate big ph swings, I know I said it already but it needs to be said again.

 

[HeadyPete]

to throw in one final variable, could any of these symptoms be caused by heat stress? my thermometer never gets above 82 or 83 and is usually at about 79, taped on the wall of my closet at the height of the top of the plants. however, i dont have that much confidence in it (its sort of shitty).

Yup big diff in temps "at the wall" and 1' under a 600 hps......

I hang my therm probes at the top of my plants, under the light. Much hotter. I'd raise the light up some and observe. You want it as close as possible, but not too close. Get a decent digi thermo with an "outside" remote probe and humidity gauge and min/max temp hold.

 

[th3gr33ncur3]

great threads, sure will help

 

[Guest]

Ph is logarithmic. 7.6 is 10 times as alkaline as 6.6 and 100 times more alkaline than 5.6.

Good info pete... this however is not correct....

the 10x and 100x only work on the same side of 7 neutral....