SICK GIRLS. nute diffiency or something else? [pics]

[inverse]

Hey guys. I made a thread on here a few weeks ago about my nl sprouts which ended up being overwatering. they're doing great now

however, in the last few days a few of my clones have been getting sick! Theyre being grown under a 600w light in my closet, temp stays at around 78, and i havnt been overwatering them. these clones are about 3 weeks old, but ive only had them in my pots for about 2 weeks. They've really been growing supppper fast until these last few days. I started feeding them about a week ago 1/4 fox farms grow big twice in a row and last watering gave them no food. The only reason i'm hesitant about calling this obvious nute def. is because the curling leaves on my odyssey tend to point towards too much phos (at least thats what i've read). i read lots of threads but i want some other opinions because this is my first grow. thanks.

Serious AK-47:
no idea what these brown spots are from. to a certain extent they seem to be appearing on all of my clones, but they are most noticeable on my ak (my biggest plant...coincidence or no)

Odyssey:
Has had these weird claw leafs on the new leaves for a logn time. i thought it was just its natural behavior, but lately its been the only plant drooping during the day, and i talked to someone who said his odyssey only curled like that when he over fed

ECSD:
the plants fine except for what appears to be mag def. just need to be sure its mag def, and will feeding with 1/2 to full strength grow big fix problem?

if this is indeed basic overall nutrient diffiency, would upping the grow big strength to 1/2 or full strength help my plants or should i keep giving them 1/4 strength for awhile? also, should i feed every watering or every other watering? thanks, im a noob and appreciate your patience and help

 

[MynameStitch]

You check your ph?

but ive only had them in my pots for about 2 weeks. They've really been growing supppper fast until these last few days. I started feeding them about a week ago 1/4 fox farms grow big twice in a row and last watering gave them no food.

Curling leaves upwards can mean radiant heat issues; to much nutrient and something else I acutally forgot....


What soil mixture do you have them in? That is NOT a magniseum deficiency.
Either ph is messed up by switching to ferts then you feeding them with acidic ferts or you have the start of a build up from ph being off

Depending on the soil mixture normally if its good soil you would not have to feed for 3 weeks; and is not reccomended feeding NPK ratio food untill after that time. Micronutes are fine but not as often as weekly feedings.

 

[JonnybeGood]

brown spots sound like mold to me.

whats your humidity?

if it is mold decrease humidity( if its high) and increase ventilation..

 

[MynameStitch]

Mold would rub off that looks more like it's in the leaf itself rather than whats on top of it

 

[Cannabinofil]

i'd agree and suggest a PH imbalance

 

[inverse]

argh not the dreaded ph issue again. i just checked the water that i used for my last watering with my hanna checker. it was from the water store that has been consistently giving me ph of 6.6. but this time it was 7.6. i don't know if thats a big enough difference in one watering to have caused my problems, but yeah....water issues suck, if thats what you think this is. should i go ahead and flush it after only one bad watering, or just wait til i would water it normally?

 

[MynameStitch]

You need to test the run off after watering your plant. No need to test water now since you already tested it; it's what is inside the soil that makes ph final count

 

[inverse]

i havnt watered them yet, but i thought id include a picture of my master kush because i think it illustrates the extreme of what going on in my other plants. all of the master kush's new leaves look fine, but these are its older ones.

 

[scegy]

well as much as i've read your post and saw ur plants u definetly overfed them with something, PK burns in soil must be treated seriously as they are hard to wash off, even with flushing
when i was doing soil i gave them girls ferts once or twice a week, NEVER twice in a row, 1ml/L, 1,5 at peaks

leaves pointing downwards and slightly burned tips indicate to what i said before
i would do a lil flush, with a pH monitoring beside....you can always give more nutes if they need it, because P and K ions are really hard to wash from the soil, in comercial business they usually fertilize with P and K on a 5 years period or more if the soil is rich in clay

Cal and Mg help to compensate (buffer) the lack or the overdose of certain ions like K and P in sense of pH, which basicaly means that even though there is not enough nutes in the soil itself the plants can suck them from it's supplys(leaves) if the pH is correct, the best thing here is that you get common def. symptoms, like yellowing from the lack of N etc...else you get lockouts(a chain of deficiencies) and u'r out in the dark

so if you haven't added lime, consider that in the next grows

as for ESCD it might be lacking of something as u said, but i've also seen heat issues having simmilar effects...

good luck

 

[sativalicious]

You need to test the run off after watering your plant. ... it's what is inside the soil that makes ph final count

Hi,

Regarding this technique, I want to learn how to interpret the results.

Let's say the pH of the solution (gently/slowly) going into the top of the soil medium was 6.2 (EC 1.14, TDS 815).
The collective runoff was 6.8 (EC 1.09, TDS 778).

What is to be concluded from these observed values?
Perhaps the answer will be useful to others.

 

[HuffAndPuff]

Stitch, again bro, bad advice. Why on earth would you say that is not a Mg deficiency?!?! That is borderline, right there. If you're not sure, say so. But don't just take wild, incorrect guesses that are not based on any evidence or reference. The last picture in his first post absolutely looks like a MG deficiency. Look at those leaves, see how they are curled upwards along the margin? That's called 'praying for magnesium'. The second set of photos looks like it might also be caused by the same issue.

Magnesium deficiency will exhibit a yellowing (which may turn brown) and interveinal chlorosis beginning in the older leaves. The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins.

Fix this by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water. Until you can correct nutrient lockout, try foliar feeding. The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil.

The other photos in the first set (clone with deformed new growth) is most likely a Phosphorus deficiency. Phosphorus deficiency is responsible for slow or stunted growth, red stems, smaller leaves that are dark green. Lower leaves yellow and die. This would corroborate with the fact that they were doing fine, but then just kind of stalled. The affected leaves will not show recovery but new growth will appear normal.

To all- PH is really not much of an issue when growing in soil. I know the ph of our water is right around 7, and guess what? Not once have I had to measure my ph, because I suspected my issues were pH related. Furthermore, the deal with pH is that if it is too high or low beyond a certain range, the ability of the plants to take up certain elements is reduced. When growing in Hydro, it is extremely important to measure pH, and adjust it up/down.

Soil offers the plant a ph-buffered medium to grow in. Store bought soils are usually right around 7, and unless your water is way out of whack, or you are applying to much of the wrong ferts, you shouldn't have to worry about it- especially if you add lime to the soil.

Stay Safe,
HuffAndPuff

[EDIT: Those brown spots look like it could be necrotic tissue cause by a deficiency or combo thereof]

 

[sativalicious]

... because P and K ions are really hard to wash from the soil, in comercial business they usually fertilize with P and K on a 5 years period or more if the soil is rich in clay

Wow! This is interesting and useful info. Thanks for sharing.

Not sure that I completely followed the explanation paragraph, though I get the gist of it... Use high quality dolomite lime in the mix, eh? Thank you!

 

[MynameStitch]

Stitch, again bro, bad advice. Why on earth would you say that is not a Mg deficiency?!?! That is borderline, right there.


Wth, magniseum deficiencys do not start like this!! Magniseum deficiencys start by yellowing and the veins are green; I can get a ton of people to back me up on this huffn puff.


They only turn brown after the leaves have turned yellow his problem is not a magnseium deficiecy. I will get some peeps here to show ya

sorry but i rarly give bad advice!

How close are your lights and what is your ph now; how often were you feeding how much?

How long have they been in THIS soil?

how often were you watering?

did u add anything to your soil? When you added 1/4 nutes you added that with how much water?


His plants are showing chlortic veins which magnseium def does not show. They do not get chlortic they stay green and then when the problem is not fixed it turned tan from the leaves dying cause all the color has been pretty much sucked from it and nutrients sucked from the leaves


Taken from uncle Ben's post from PG

1. Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. A hard, crispy feel to the leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy leaf. When you have a high concentration of salts in solution (or in the root medium) compared to lower salinity levels found in the plant’s tissue, water is actually drawn out of the plant across the root gradient in order to fix the ppm imbalance. IOW, this is a natural, osmotic response that serves to equalize salinity levels on both sides of the root’s epidermal gradient. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of plant food. Too much plant food can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips, which then creates another set of problems. Note for the bio folks - as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem. Leach (flush) your pots once in a while to get rid of excess salts.

His leaves are cupping upwards which can be from various issues; but right now magniseum def can start on iupper part of the plant but i only seen ity in vflowering plants not veg


They've really been growing supppper fast until these last few days. I started feeding them about a week ago 1/4 fox farms grow big twice in a row and last watering gave them no food

So his plants were doing fine untill he fed them 2 times; we don't know how much water he had when he used 1/4 of it.

This is pointing towards over ferting more than anything else.

So before you tell me bad advice puff make sure you find facts and READ everything the poster has said; then come back and tell me I am wrong with proof.

 

[HuffAndPuff]

Ok, well how about I start here:
you say:

His plants are showing chlortic veins which magnseium def does not show. They do not get chlortic they stay green and then when the problem is not fixed it turned tan from the leaves dying cause all the color has been pretty much sucked from it and nutrients sucked from the leaves

I say false. Do YOU have any references? Here's a few...

" Secondary Nutrients Magnesium (Mg) is found as a central atom in the chlorophyll molecule and is essential to the absorption of light energy. Magnesium aids in the utilization of nutrients, neutralizes acids and toxic compounds produced by the plant. Deficiency signs of magnesium are: Older leaves yellow from the center outward, while veins remain green on deficient plants. Leaf tips and edges may discolor and curl upward. Growing tips turn lime green if the deficiency progresses to the top of the plant."
http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/nutrients2.htm

"Interveinal chlorosis is a yellowing of the leaves between the veins with the veins remaining green. In plants with strap-like leaves such as the daylily this results in a striped effect. While there are several possible causes, this symptom frequently indicates a nutritional imbalance." -just in case there is confusion as to the term. Note that the previous quote is talking about interveinal chlorosis.
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_dictionary/interveinal_chlorosis.html

"Magnesium deficiency will exhibit a yellowing (which may turn brown) and interveinal chlorosis beginning in the older leaves. The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins. Notice how the veins remain somewhat green though as can be seen in figure 15."
http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/plant_abuse.html


OK, so that puts your claim regarding Magnesium deficiency not causing interveinal chlorosis to bed, I should think.

Your info about over-ferting is accurate, but I do not believe this is an over fert issue. So I will move on to your next point.

His leaves are cupping upwards which can be from various issues; but right now magniseum def can start on iupper part of the plant but i only seen ity in vflowering plants not veg

Ok, now this is barely English, but I think what you are saying that although magnesium deficiencies can be observed in the upper part of a plant YOU have only seen this in flowering. Seems like this might not mean much. Have you seen every dope plant ever grown? Is it impossible that it can happen in veg? No.

As the info I posted above states, the INTERVEINAL CHLOROSIS begins in the older leaves, this says nothing of the leaves 'praying'.

did u add anything to your soil? When you added 1/4 nutes you added that with how much water?

When someone says this, they probably mean exactly what they said. They are adding 1/4 of the nutes to same amount of water.

Furthermore, the fact that you are quoting someone from PG means NOTHING to me. If I cared what they thought about growing, I'd be over there. That said, I do love the "Diffrent strokes for different folks" forums they have.

So before you tell me bad advice puff make sure you find facts and READ everything the poster has said; then come back and tell me I am wrong with proof.

So there are my facts. Oh and

The only reason i'm hesitant about calling this obvious nute def. is because the curling leaves on my odyssey tend to point towards too much phos

Maybe you should be the one to read everything the poster has said. It can give you a good place to start. As far as bringing in all of these people to disagree, we'll see who says what. Wrangle them in here, I would love to have somebody who can type show me the err of my ways. As far as you rarely giving bad advice, this is twice in one day, so maybe you were just due. It happens. I want to see what HeadyPete has to say. If HE says I'm way off, my apology will be loud and clear.

HuffAndPuff

 

[MynameStitch]

All I can say is I am not going to argue and piss his thread away; I know what I seen for years and years; I will agree people have not seen it all no matter how long they been growing but still; he has burned his plant in this case. THe thread starter even said his plants went down hill after he fed them 2 times

Deficiency signs of magnesium are: Older leaves yellow from the center outward, while veins remain green on deficient plants. Leaf tips and edges may discolor and curl upward. Growing tips turn lime green if the deficiency progresses to the top of the plant."

Yes that states a magniseum deficiency is true but his plants are not showing that

This is simple he needs to flush his plants and check ph because he has build up to much nutirents in his plants.


Ok, will get heady in here then

I guess you don't know who Uncle Ben is then LOL

When someone says this, they probably mean exactly what they said. They are adding 1/4 of the nutes to same amount of water.

THat does not = a certain amount for all we know he could have added that much in a liter of water

as for the bad advice 2 times in one day thing; if you think nitrogen is not needed in flowering then I hate to see how many people you tell that to and how many peoples plants yellow in flowering.

THat is what you are referring to; plants do NEED NITROGEN in flowering small amounts no where near the amount in veg.... where you try to say they don't need nitrogen is FALSE

 

[Guest]

Well I dont have a lot of time atm.....

but one thing for sure it has nothing to do with Mg def....

Mg def is mobile and its found just below the new growth.....

N it also mobile but its very mobile.... so the plant can move it from the bottom of the plant....

Mg on the other hand is not so mobile so it gets what it needs from the next lower node usually...

It actually doesnt look anything like Mg def.....

 

[MynameStitch]

THank you! At least so far one person agrees with me; I am going to be out at the moment myself so I will be back later on.

 

[Guest]

Well lets just say I dont always agree with you either......


lol.....

but thats how we met.....

rotflmfao....

 

[MynameStitch]

KEKEKEKE That I will agree on too!

See ya in a bit ;D

 

[inverse]

alright i really appreciate the interest in this thread guys, from ALL of you

to answer your question stitch, i have a 2 gallon water container. i put 1/4 strength into that 2 gallon, and gave my plants enough water that some came out the bottom.

my odyssey started having the curling down leaf tips a few days BEFORE the first feeding however. this is why i thought it was just natural until it started drooping and stuff. Another interesting thing to keep in mind is that i got the master kush clone a few days before i fed my plants and stupidly i gave it the nutes along with the other plants. at the time i really felt like it was a ph thing, but now i think i overfed it, as it was quite small at the time. on the other hand, i don't know how 2 feedings to my other plants, which are all around 14 inches tall, could cause these spotting problems with no tell tale leaf tip burns (except on the master kush). Feel free to correct me here because, again, im a noob!

Its also interesting to note that my 2 month-old northern lights (from seed) have shown no ill signs that the other plants have, although they were only fed once not twice. today, however, the leaf tips on the top of my biggest nl are drooping down (just the tips), but i think its because they all need a good watering.

So my plan of action at this point is to give the girls a good flushing tonight. I'll measure runoff ph for you guys and over the next few days see how they respond. If they get worse would that prove nute def? if they stay the same and the new growths are fine ill chalk it up to burn/ph. am i way off base or no?

Again, thanks for all of the help, especially the long in depth posts from stich and huff. they make it easy for me, a beginner

edit:::
to throw in one final variable, could any of these symptoms be caused by heat stress? my thermometer never gets above 82 or 83 and is usually at about 79, taped on the wall of my closet at the height of the top of the plants. however, i dont have that much confidence in it (its sort of shitty). i know this doesnt leave you with much, but just in general could any of those pics be caused by heat stress or no...