Sick california orange bud

[Piedro]

Hello. I could use some help here.

I got this clone of claifornia orange bud growing for few weeks. Troubles started about 5 days ago. Still in the growing pahse (lights on 24/7)

My setup is:

Basic bubbler hydro. 30 litres.
600w HPS
temp around +29 to 33 max. celcius.
GHE Flora seris 3 part nutes.
Humidity: no idea. propably low (edit: I been spraying water whit low amount of nutes on it 1-2 times a day copule of days now)
Decent ventilation
Using plenty of co2 pills.
I control ph every 2-3 days.

Like sayed. Problems started about 7 days ago, when plant had nutes for "intense growth". I allso took plenty of lefes off.
And now it has been like this for 5 days or so. I guess it has too mutch nutes on it, so I went back to really mild dose of nutes (for yong plants).
It hasn't done pretty mutch anything. It grows 1-2 centimeters/day but as you can see from couple of crappy pictures I managed to take: All the top leafes totally lack green colour and are really curled down. Bigger leafes allso lack green, but veins are still green. Stem got really purple colour and so did most of the leafes I removed earlier.
I hope these pics make more sense than my bad english
I tried to do research by myslef, but apparently failed. My bet is overdose of nutes, but pretty mutch nothing has improved now when it has been 5 days on really mild nutrition. Should I go back tho "intense growth" or stick whit really mild doses for some time? Roots still look kinda okay. Bit yellowish but havent died.

 

[sproutco]

33 c is too hot. You should not be spraying your plants with fertilizer. What is the ph? How many ppm total or ec are you feeding the plants? Are you sure you are mixing the 3 part fertilizer correctly? What do your roots look like? Are they white and fluffy or brownish?

 

[Piedro]

33 c is too hot. You should not be spraying your plants with fertilizer. What is the ph? How many ppm total or ec are you feeding the plants? Are you sure you are mixing the 3 part fertilizer correctly? What do your roots look like? Are they white and fluffy or brownish?

-temp is most of the time bellow 30, but its so damn hot outside that temperature might climb up to 33 max. for a while. I read somewhere that 35celcius is the absolute max temp.
-there is _really_ low fertilizer level on water Im sparying (like 1ml for 10 liters) I stop using ferttilizer on spray water. Or should I stop spraying all the way?
-ph is kept between 5.5-6.5
-Sorry, I couldnt afford ec meter yet.
-Im quite sure im fertilizers correclty. I have done many sucsessfull yelds whit "heavy duty fruity" before whit same setup. I use grow/micro/bloom nutes as told in the bottle. When I turned to "strong grow" mixture (15gro, 10micro, 5bloom. ml/10 liters of water.) It started to symptoms mentioned earlier. When I was growing heavyduty, it acted just fine when I went to full force whit nutes and it was about the same size as this COB. HDF started explosive growing but apparently COB is more sensitive for nutes.

Now I have kept it "young plants" fertilizing (5-5-5ml/10liters) for 4 days and it has kept on slowly growing and getting perhaps little better. Still no green colour on top leafes. Those pictures are 2 days old. I get fresh pics sometime soon.

-roots are mostly white, but there is little bit brown and fluffyness at some parts of roots.

-should I stay on 5-5-5 for couple of days more because atleast, it hasnt got worse whit them or should I use more nutes sometime soon?

 

[sproutco]

Some of the leaves look like too much fertilizer. They resemble a claw. Stop spraying fertilizer altogether. I think I would use "young plants" formula. You may want to add 1.45 ml daily or 2.9 ml 2 to 3 times a week 3% hydrogen peroxide from the the drug store for every liter in the rez. Try to get your temperatures lower. PH should be about 6.

 

[Piedro]

Thanks for tips, sproutco. Will try those out.

edit: I payed some more attention to roots and there was deffinetly damage done. I expect this happened because this plant was transfered from soil to hydro when it was smaller and I couldnt get all the soil washed away.
I went to drug store right away and got some hydrogen peroxide you recommended. Than should do the trick. You are the man

 

[MTF-Sandman]

What's your water source?

Definitely get those res temps down...anything above 26c is asking for root rot problems.

 

[MynameStitch]

got some iron issues there, your using to much nutrients, every strain is different including the same strain

what i mean by the same strain is if you take 2 seeds from the same strain and grow them they may need diferent requirements but near the same

reason for this is because the strain may not be stable and you get issues like this
but every strain is different unless you are growing from clone

you need to chill on the nutrients your locking out iron to your plants

flush your res out
what are your ppms at right now and how big are your plants and age?


h202 will do nothing to the roots to help them except i they had bacteria problems or lack of o2
you want to use b1 but right now they got to much you will need to wait on that and flush your plants good and change water out and wait an hour and start your ppms out low

i need to know your ppms are at right now to tell you'
but i wouldnt go over 1000 right now

 

[Piedro]

That plant died. Now Im on re-run whit allmost same setup. Exept whit big-ass ventilation fan so temp stays bellow +30c all the time and 10 times more powerful airpump than earlier.
Same symptoms are happening again. They groved rapidly to about 30-40cm/one feet long looking really healthy and now growing has slowed down a lot. Tip fan leafes are lacking green and small new leafes at the tips of the branches are allmost white and severly curled down.
I have been using really mild amounts of nutrients. My friend went to max. recommended amout of nutrients whit clones from same plant as I do ages ago whitout problems.
Lack of green at the top part of the plant (only veins stay green, small new leafes totally lack green colour. and tops of the branches are starting to feel stiffer than they are supposed. My new plants start to look like plant seen on older pictures. Not that severe so far, but the symptoms seem the same. I tried to take pictures, but batteries ran out, so I try to get some as soon as possible today.

Its deffinetly not root rot this time. Its not about ph either. I control it every 2-3 days.
Temp is no problem, like mentioned, my friend is growing same plants/clones, samekind of setup whit higher temp w/o problems. It cant be too mutch nutrients either. My friend went to "full force" (same GHE flora series) whit nutes whit smaller plants and no problem. I have been using only mild amounts so far, like mentioned.

So should I use whit max. amount suggested whit nutes (15-10-5 ml). Im all out of ideas.
So if your plant looks like pictures above, its allready dead. I cant describle how pissed-off and sad I feel. Wasted so mutch montey to get proper ventilation for nothing. It's not root rot and it cant be too mutch nutes.
Perhaps its lack of nutrients thsi time.. Well, I just went to max. nutes (15-10-5ml/10 litres).
I just cant figure out why plants grow to that size like on older pics and then lose their green colour and start to curl down. Its not heat/ventilation, its not that I would use too mutch nutrients, its not ph. To make it more confusing, my friend is growing huge plants from same mother at the moment. Bubbler, 600w HPS, but hes growing in higher temps allmsot whitout any ventilation.. I just dont get it.

I promise to upload pictures as soon as possible. Perhaps they make more sense than my crappy english
So to say this shortly, are those symptoms I described because lack of nutrients? It just cant be because of too mutch of them.

 

[sproutco]

Sounds like iron deficiency. Make sure to keep your ph at 6 and not any higher. Root trouble could also cause this deficiency.

 

[Piedro]

Thanks. Iron is waht I thought too, when I checked MynameStitch's awesome guide and other places. Just wanted to hear your guys opinions too. I gave it 10ml extra shot of "micro" (40 litre bubler), what is the only one of my 3 part nutes that contains iron(fe). Any ideas was that too little or too mutch?
Well, I let it lay down for a while and check how plants react, if they react at all. I keep you posted. Now I have to leave and get some batteries. Damn these power hungry digital camers
I allso keep my eyes on ph level. I check it every 2 days. I heared somewhere that messing whit it too often can be harmful. PH tends to rise quite rapidly at least on bubler system I have.

 

[Piedro]

MTF-Sandman: usual tap water. Should not be problem because friends living near me use it too whitout any propblems.
It's not either:
- too mutch nutes
- heat or ventilation
- ph
- damaged roots. they look 100% white and healthy
- ???

I tried adding extra "micro" because of it got iron for 5 days whitout any differrence. No idea about ppms, becaus I dont have way to measure it. I just flushed the system and keep it on ph controlled water for some time.
I guess it's lack of iron. No fucking idea whats the deal whit it. New pictures are still to come but it's same thing is happening as older pictures. Pranches and top part start to feel way too stiff and wood-like... Propably too late to take clones. Stems are really deep purple. Small top leafes lack green and their tips are curled. Propably dead.
So its lack of iron and no friggin idea what could be blocking it. My mate grows whit simlair retup, same nutes, doesn't care heat or ph and gives nutes when feels like it. He got same clones as I do and he's are over 1 meter long and perfectly healthy.
Not me or any of my mates got no idea why the f*ck my plants allways grow to that size looking 100% healthy and vigorious and then they just stall and lose their green.

So only thing I could figure out anymore is that my tap water is somehow fucked up (not likely) what causes iron to be blocked from the plans. I ordered following products as last desperate attempt:
-Atami Ata-clean
- Bio Bizz Root Juice

Any ideas or suggestions? Why the hell plants look superb to that lenght and then start messing around (why iron isn't blocked from the start). How long I should keep flushing/just ph controlled water in rez.?
Me and my way more experienced hydro friends are all stunned. It's lack of iron but why? Looks like third attempt goes down the drain once again :.(
(sorry about lack of pictures promised earlier. anyways, they are starting to look like that awful thing at old pictures. they are losing green and getting as stiff as some dried out twig as we speak.)

 

[sproutco]

Really don't know if its iron or not. Just guessing by description. Maybe take some pictures of the tops with the problem. If its burning, take a picture of that too. you are shaking the bottles before each use right? Did you spray the plants with ferts again?

 

[Piedro]

here they go:









Colours are messed up because I was messing around whit camera settings and couldnt remember the right one I hope they make even some sense to this.


I haven't sprayed plants at all this time. Yes, I shake nutrients before using them. Nutes are 1.5 years old but I guess that should not be the problem (?).

 

[sproutco]

I figured this recipe out this morning. Change your nutes to this. I would go ahead and add 3% hydrogen peroxide 1 teaspoon per gallon of water daily if your not doing some sort of pathogen prevention.

This is 3/4 strength: 3.75 grow, 7.5 micro, 11.25 bloom per 3.8 liters
119 n
69 p
164 k
50 mg

Compare to Jensen's hydroponic formula...
n 106
p 62
k 156
ca 93
mg 48

That would be almost identical. This would be great to try. Once plants recover, you may want to switch to a recipe with higher nitrogen... closer to 150 up to 200 ppm n.

Shake bottles before each use! Do not spray plants with ferts.

 

[Piedro]

Thanks. I'll try those out in day or two. I guess having plain ph controlled water that time wont do any more harm at least(?)
I give them bit of hydrogen peroxside daily and go for that formula.

Idiotic question about that: Are those (3.75, 7.5 and 11.25) ml for 10litres of water? /edit: got it

I keep you posted what happens.

 

[sproutco]

Per 3.8 liters.

The Jensen recipe is located on page 11 of this link. Its formula 2.
http://vric.ucdavis.edu/veginfo/topics/hydroponics/hydroponics.pdf

This actually is the gh bloom formula. For some reason, it has quite a bit of nitrogen.

You could use this formula to finish veg and use all of bloom if it works well for you.

You don't need 200 ppm nitrogen to have a happy plant. :smile:

 

[sproutco]

Per 3.8 liters. Start out maybe 1/2 strength. 106 ppm nitrogen. This would add less p then the high n bloom recipe.

GH's baseline Flora Series, the 3 bottles, green purple and red, (different from Flora Nova series) veg formula
GH 15grow, 10micro, 5bloom
211
46
263
40

Tip : Most store bought ferts are low in boron. You can boost your levels slightly using my hydro rate. Safe. Place 1 teaspoon borax from the grocery store in very hot water 1 gallon (3.8liters). Then add 1 teaspoon of this boron water for every gallon in your rez. (3.8liters). You may see increased vigor in both veg and flower. This is especially important to add if your water contains alot of calcium.

 

[Verite]

Considering that boron is one of the lowest elements weed plants use and plenty abundant in normal city tap water theres no statistical evidence anywhere to indicate any types of plants suffer with bouts of boron deficiency.

 

[Farmer John]

Looks like you are overfeeding seriously...

 

[Piedro]

Thanks for comments & suggestions. I tried sproutco's recipe last evening. I keep you posted (+pictures) in couple of days how plants react.

I figured this recipe out this morning. Change your nutes to this. I would go ahead and add 3% hydrogen peroxide 1 teaspoon per gallon of water daily if your not doing some sort of pathogen prevention.

This is 3/4 strength: 3.75 grow, 7.5 micro, 11.25 bloom per 3.8 liters
119 n
69 p
164 k
50 mg

Like I mentioned earlier. These symptoms cant be because of too mutch nutes. I have used amount meaned for cuttings/small plants all the way, but still they stopped growing and started to get curly and yellow.
Heck, I dont know. Im just stunned why the hell they act like that every time. Oh well, lets just see what happens, but im not too optimistic.
Im using osram 600w plantsar HPS. Is that somehow shitty light? Im getting paranoid trying to figure this out. Plants grow around one feet tall looking perfectly healthy and then they just stop. Top leafes lose their green and curl. All this whitout changing anything! Not because of adding stronger ferts, not because ph changes etc...
Im only guessing my houses tap water is somehow f*cked up and it somehow starts to block nutes from the plant after some time. Just hoping suppliments I ordered (mentioned at last page) shomehow fix this. Too bad that it's propably too late for these yellow fellows. But like mentioned, they are now in sproutco's recipe and I keep you posted.