ShroomDr's Nutrient Formula Elemental NPK parts-per-million List!

[Willi]

your English is fine willi and your point is interesting.

no question water quality plays a huge part of the equation. and also no question it does not get discussed near enough.

I do my best

Quite honestly, water quality is no issue for the fertilizer manufacturers for hemp. They tell us to adjust the water for the fertilizer, while a pro do this the other way around. No need for RO water if you have the right fertilizer, but the fertilizer manufacturers for hemp mainly sell only one fertilizer.

We finally need the knowledge of the community so that everyone gets the right fertilizer he needs, rather than one must try what ever works for a fertilizer.

 

[Willi]

But to return to the subject of calcium in the fertilizer

The amount of calcium in the tap water, in the fertilizer and in the medium (lime in the soil) add up. Therefore fertilizers specifically designed for soil rarely contain calcium, because the quantity of calcium in the soil is sufficiently for the plant. In hydroponics it depends on water hardness if calcium have to be added.

The amount of calcium hemp needed in the growth and bloom should be somewhere in between 100-200 ppm. I have often read the number of 150 ppm, eg with Ed Rosenthal, but whether this figure is correct is questionable.

 

[ShroomDr]

[Tangent]
Root66 is the only rooting product ive seen list B. Some site veterans may remember a 'Stump Remover' thread, (stump removal = a Boron overdose) this shit makes me laugh every time.

Technaflora seems to think B is as important as Fe.

Technaflora Root66 (1-1-1) (NH4)1% Fe0.05% B0.05%
237g/250mL = 0.948g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 25
P 11
K 21
Fe 1.25
B 1.25
Derived from: Ascophyllium Kelp, Iron EDTA, Boric Acid. 0.5% Cane Sugar.

They list an application rate of up to 40mL/Gal (for transplants), thats 5ppm of Fe and B


[/Tangent]

 

[Willi]

They list an application rate of up to 40mL/Gal (for transplants), thats 5ppm of Fe and B

Seedlings / cuttings like indeed not too much Fe and therefor more B, but not really in that concentration.

This is murder * LOL *

 

[kiwiboy]

Stump Removal = Potassium Nitrate
Kill Ant = Boric Acid

 

[ShroomDr]

Stump Removal = Potassium Nitrate
Kill Ant = Boric Acid

You are correct. I could have swarn there was B on stump remover, but every reference i find now is KNO3, or sodium pyrosulfite


Either way, im pretty sure you are killing the stump by overdosing it. N, B, Na, S, you pick the poison.

 

[tester]

Is it certain, that the Weight% is listed on the fertilizer solutions, rather than the Weight/Volume%?
Is there any kind of regulations controlling which one has to be listed on the label?

According to Cann@-UK, it can be expressed in both ways:
http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/2010/06/npk-by-canna-uk/

If this is true, and all the calculations here are based on w/w instead of w/v, the numbers can be 15-25% more than they actually are.

 

[ShroomDr]

That article sucks balls, but since its written by a manufacturer, i wouldnt expect much. As a matter of fact, i cant believe how confusing they are trying to make things, it should be criminal.


(Why would someone care how many mg/L of N they have, when they could simply look at the elemental NPK level.) Mg/L would be useful information from a tissue sample serum level; an output reading, not input unit of measure.

Think of a 200lb diabetic man ordering 0.08oz of cola per pound. Knowing what .08oz/lb of cola will do to him is important, but what is easier for him to grasp? Drinking a 16oz cola or .08oz/lb?


If they werent factoring in water weight, the numbers would be off by more than 15-25%. The product densities are listed (g/mL)

 

[Willi]

...Think of a 200lb diabetic man ordering 0.08oz of cola per pound. Knowing what .08oz/lb of cola will do to him is important, but what is easier for him to grasp? Drinking a 16oz cola or .08oz/lb?...

This is really a good comparison

I think the whole secrecy is due to the fact that fertilizer manufacturers are subsidiaries of chemical and pharmaceutical companies. They also make vast sums of money by pissing the people. The Manufacturers of hemp fertilizer only imitate the big players ....

 

[tester]

I don't see your point, or maybe I just misunderstand it, but IMO mg/l is better when we talk about fertilizers, especially fert solutions, because we measure liquids by volume.

For example when following a fert schedule, amounts are listed in mls.
When we fertilize (fertigate) the plants, the nutrient solution is measured by liters, and all we need to know is how much nutrients are in 1 liter of water (w/v), we don't measure it with a scale.

When you multiply w/w with the density, you get mg/l anyway, so all those numbers coming from that nutrient calculator are in mg/l..
But again, maybe this is just a misunderstanding on my side.


Just found that there might be companys who lists nutrient contents in v/w.
Metrop lists NPK on the label by w/v%, so there is no need to multiply it with the density to get the final mg/l.
If someone does, results will be 50% more than they actually are.
http://metrop.nl/1_ned/3_pr_nl_mr1.html

 

[ShroomDr]

I don't see your point

I get that a lot and yet I dont think it is possible for me to be more concise.

Feed plants with whatever measurement you wish, this thread is titled Elemental NPK parts-per-million. Listing all these competing brands in the same easy to understand format, makes comparing them a breeze.

Perhaps you should start a thread called Elemental Densities in a Given Volume, but frankly i find this unit of measurement superfluous, and needlessly confusing.

Knowing a plant tissues elemental breakdown would be VERY informative, but again, it is an output reading, not an input.


Wait im still really confused... Do you not know everything is based off Gal? 10ml/Gal,5ml/Gal,1g/Gal etc? Its all right there.

 

[tester]

I think you don't get me either.

The cannastats calculator gives you the elemental nutrient profile in mg/l per gallon.
All the element you list here are in mg/l per us gallon

mg/l is PPM (w/v)
PPM means parts per millions, it can be
mg/kg (1mg=1000 000kg) this is w/w
mg/l (1mg=1000 000l) this is w/v

My concern is that we presume NPK is listed by w/w% on every label.

Take Metrop for an example:

On the label NPK is 10-40-20 but this is w/v%

Check it on their site:

10 40 20 w/v%
6,65 27 13,5 w/w%


10-40-20 is already multiplied with the density (or liquid weight in g/ml as cannastas calc call it) : 1.5 g/ml

6.65*1.5 = 10
27*1.5 = 40
13.5*1.5 = 20

So if we use 10-40-20 in cannastats calc and multiply it again with 1.5, we get 50% more.

Put it in the cannastats calc:
METROP (10-40-20)
1.5g/mL
@1mL/Gal
N 40

This was calculated like this:
10% (w/w%) N is 100 mg/kg of fert solution.
Multiply it with the density as cannastas do:
(density is 1,5g/ml (=1500mg/ml))

100 mg/kg x
1500 mg/ml =
150 mg/l or PPM (w/v)

Divide it with 3.785 to get mg/l per gallon
150/3,785 = 39,63

There is 40mg/l N in 1 us gallon.


But this is wrong, because NPK w/v% (10-40-20) is already multiplied with density.



To put it in a simple way:

If NPK is listed on the label by:

- w/w% , we have to multiply it with it's density
- w/v% , we must not multiply it.

Again, elements are given in mg/l per us gallons in this case, which is the same as PPM (w/v) per us gallons.

 

[ShroomDr]

i believe i somewhat understand what you are getting at, but i dont believe it is a concern with any product ive listed. Almost everything ive listed is liquid nutrient, and no where near as concentrated as 10-40-20 (which i assume is dry). My calculations are based off of a Gal jug (volume) and the weight of the contents of that jug.

If anything i have listed is incorrect PLEASE CORRECT ME, but i believe everything is spot on. Correcting mistakes is a lot more helpful than adding possible conjecture.

 

[tester]

I'm working on a similar project, comparing fertilizers and feeding schedules, that's why I'm here, I didn't meant to criticize your work.

If there are no regulations on how to list the NPK on the label (w/w or w/v), the best thing we can do is to ask it straight from the company.

Metrop is a liquid fertilizer solution, there is some water on it...

Also, there might be something wrong with this record:

Technaflora Root66 (1-1-1) (NH4)1% Fe0.05% B0.05%
237g/250mL = 0.948g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 25
P 11
K 21
Fe 1.25
B 1.25
Derived from: Ascophyllium Kelp, Iron EDTA, Boric Acid. 0.5% Cane Sugar.

According to this, Technaflora is lighter than water, so it must have been made of an other liquid (?) or there was a mistake somewhere, maybe becasue of rounding up or down, or changing between the metric systems.

 

[ShroomDr]

your correct, it should be 255g/250mL

Technaflora Root66 (1-1-1) (NH4)1% Fe0.05% B0.05%
255g/250mL = 1.02g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 27
P 12
K 22
Fe 1.35
B 1.35
Derived from: Ascophyllium Kelp, Iron EDTA, Boric Acid. 0.5% Cane Sugar.

As far as liquid karma goes, Botanicare apparently doesnt hire proofreaders, because with thier universal labels for Silica Blast and LK, they list different densities from the qt, vs, Gal. I dont think ive had a bottle of liquid karma for over 2 years, and that is when that data was collected (from a qt bottle). I WOULD LOVE A CURRENT WEIGHT/VOL!

NOTE: The elemental ppm numbers barely changed from my old calculation to the new calculation.

 

[ShroomDr]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=737189&#post737189
i have an old bottle of Silica Blast, and the label is universal for any silica blast bottle, as it has 5 boxes that can be 'check marked'

One is Gallon = 9.15lbs
One Quart = 2.4lbs (should be 1/4 of 9.15lbs=2.28)
One Pint = 1.21lbs (should be 1/8 of9.15lbs=1.143)
It lists 2.5G = 22.9lb (should be 22.875lbs THATS CLOSE ENOUNGH)
5G = 45.75lbs, which does equal 5*9.15

relevant to Bontanicare's careful proofreading skills.

 

[tester]

your correct, it should be 255g/250mL
I WOULD LOVE A CURRENT WEIGHT/VOL!

NOTE: The elemental ppm numbers barely changed from my old calculation to the new calculation.

It was lighter than water that's why it cought my eyes.
In this case elemental ppms are changed only by 5,4%.

The bigger the density, bigger is the difference.

If it's 1,3g/ml - the difference would be 30%.
Fert solutions, especially the ones that can be found in growshops are usually below 1.3g/ml, because these contains lots of water but only small amounts of nutrients, so the profit is bigger.

I WOULD LOVE A CURRENT WEIGHT/VOL!

The results from Cannastats calculator are already in weight/volume.
These are mg/l per gallon
same as ppm (w/v) per gallon

If you don't fill in the density, the results will be
mg/kg per gallon
same as ppm (w/w) per gallon

But it all depends on the NPK on the label.
If it's w/w%, it must be multiplied with the density to get mg/l per gallon.
If it's w/v%, it must NOT be multiplied with the density, because its already multiplied with it.

 

[ShroomDr]

jesus dude, I WOULD LOVE A CURRENT WEIGHT/VOL of Liquid Karma, which is written on the bottle. Forgive me for not being clearer.

Feel free to spread your posts around, 5 outta 13 (over 2.5+ years) in this thread make it appear as if you have a bone to pick. Your point has been made, and is not a concern with any product listed.

 

[tester]

Since my english is not too good, and my manners are even worst than that, would anyone help me to compose an email to the companies who sells fert solutions?

I'd like to ask whether they list NPK values by weight/weight percent, or weight/volume percent.
Thanks.

 

[kiwiboy]

Sorry for being dumb, but what is the npk values for phosphoric acid?
Wanting to simulate pk13/14 using phosphoric acid and mono potassium phosphate.

sorry for bumping. Hoping someone can help with this.