Sexing Seeds: BS or not?

[Guest]

Forerunners in this research are Dr. H.E. Warmke and H. Davidson, but the most known fieldwork among stoners are Dutch Passions' tests and conclusions, that they post on their web site:
www.dutch-passion.nl

In short, it goes like this:

a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females.
a higher potassium concentration will give more males.
a higher humidity will give more females.
a lower temperature will give more females.
more blue light will give more females.
Fewer hours of light will give more females.
==============================================================


The problem with this info....

Is that there is little proof that any of it works....

While dutch passion did some tests with feminized seeds....

There are no experiments where a bunch of seeds were split in two....

half given optimum female conditions the other optimum male conditions


Im not saying it doesnt have an effect just there is nothing Ive seen that proves their conclusions even marginally....

Its not even a difficult experiment.... which of course makes me even more suspicious....

 

[Chamba]

Chamba you've got every right to question something if you think you smell BS, but this is why your sexing chart is bogus

It's not my sexing chart, please re-read the thread, and whether it is bogus or not is besides the point........I played the devil's advocate and asked why it was bullshit....I'm not an advocate for this method, I'm all for opinions based on experience with this or anything else..the rest really is bullshit

 

[Guest]

ok the re read shit is getting old..... spell it out for us do the work lol


and lets try to have a real point here not a personal war, honestly we dont care about those

im not too interested in if your going to say it isnt, either... this thread looks like a waste of time simply becasue of the arguing need proof? lets all weight in on this so chamba can agree.


im sorry man but your being Anal we dont all have to agree

 

[Gert Lush]

For me, the giveaway that this is total BS, probably done by some joker of the sort that put out chain-letters, etc, is the following:-

They state that it will work in only one of 10 cases. IOW, for every 1 "perfectly round" (my arse) female that you find, there will actually be about 9 perfectly good females that WON'T show perfectly round.

Who's going to bother to check that? If I buy 2 packs of expensive seeds, am I going to throw away 19 of them? ....Right... and if that rare 1 in 20 seed turns out to be a male after all, hell, damn, maybe it wasn't perfectly round. As if anything in nature is "perfectly" any geometric shape....

So, there isn't really a way to test it, is there? ...even though they initially pretend that there is!

====

No, I've got a better way for you:-
Count all the distinct darker dots on a seed. All of them, careful, don't miss any, now! If it's an even number, then it's female. Odd, and it's male. Absolutely guaranteed.

 

[Guest]

^ gert lose the cheekynes or did you not read my post

without asking anyone to re read my posts ill come out and say it

everyone just get along dont go fllaming chamba like a twit save that for the photo forum..

 

[Guest]

the chart is complete bullshit. did I try the method.? No. I didn't have to. I first saw it on OG back in about 2001 I think. It used to pop up about once a month in the forums, and always sparked great debate and always wound up being someone like chamba who said ya don't know till ya try. Go ahead and waste your time dude. It's your time to waste. Me? I seen it disproved so many times and laffed my ass of at folks like you who wanna believe it I lost count.

Just stop and consider....we're all; walking thru the cow pasture, and we all keep telling ya there's bullshit .....maybe ya otta stop and think why we'd all be telling ya that.


peace out

 

[Guest]

the chart is complete bullshit. did I try the method.? No. I didn't have to. I first saw it on OG back in about 2001 I think. It used to pop up about once a month in the forums, and always sparked great debate and always wound up being someone like chamba who said ya don't know till ya try. Go ahead and waste your time dude. It's your time to waste. Me? I seen it disproved so many times and laffed my ass of at folks like you who wanna believe it I lost count.

Just stop and consider....we're all; walking thru the cow pasture, and we all keep telling ya there's bullshit .....maybe ya otta stop and think why we'd all be telling ya that.


peace out

i dont think hes claiming it works and i think you know that. is chamba the problem or are you just not helping? we dont really have to re read eachothers posts lol pay attention the first time..

besides i dunno about you but if i were in a cow pasture id be looking for
shit...

maybe ther is a better fitting metaphor?

 

[Guest]

no, he's not claiming it works, he's arguing maybe it COULD work...and enough other folks are telling him it won't work he should just shut up and listen to . And you ain't helping either. welcome to iggy

 

[Guest]

i could be helping should you decide i am


they said the world was flat... some dumbass broke that mold too

this method way work with select lines, ones i havent grown.. some poeple whom have grown alot of seed have stated it doesnt.. i wont be trying it but not because anyone told me i shouldnt.....

 

[zamalito]

Variations of the caruncle were often used to delineate the subspecies of cannabis. Some varieties notably africans breed true for a deep caruncle I've seen some thais that breed true with an almost flush caruncle. I understand being the devil's advocate but there's simply no scientific basis for this theory. It's no different than if stranger told me he saw a unicorn yesterday. I'd assume he's full of shit. Though the argument could be made that I don't know he's full of shit unless I personally was there at that moment in time. However there's no basis for me to say he's telling the truth and what I know scientifically makes it seem like bullshit. I hope this isn't taken as offense. I have much respect for you, chamba and I often try to play the devil's advocate role myself so I get what you're saying.

 

[Pops]

Let me say first off that I don't know shit about the subject, but I read an interesting article a while back concerning seeds being male or female. Perhaps one of you could throw some light on the subject for an old man.

The crux of the article was that seeds, like human ovum, are basically sexless(human ovum are female predominant) until there is a chemical signal given from a gene that causes a ethylene gas to be (created/released) which in turn creates a female plant from the seed.

In humans, the eggs are female disposed until a gene says release testosterone to make boys and estrogen for girls.

If this is true about seeds(and I don't know that it is), then could one release ethylene gas around developing seedlings to get a preponderance of female plants? Not that this would have any commercial value to anyone but commercial breeders, if that.

 

[Chamba]

no, he's not claiming it works, he's arguing maybe it COULD work...

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....wrong......actually I said you , me and anyone else doesn't know if it's bs until the method has been tested.

and thanks solely to Beancounter we now have one grower here who has actually done the experiment and proved it didn't work for him.....so when you think about it, all the other posts in this thread (apart from the first post and Beancounter's post) really are bullshit!

 

[Guest]

i can toke to that!

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

It's not my sexing chart, please re-read the thread, and whether it is bogus or not is besides the point........I played the devil's advocate and asked why it was bullshit....I'm not an advocate for this method, I'm all for opinions based on experience with this or anything else..the rest really is bullshit

Very well, it's not your chart, just the chart you presented - that I've already seen floating around somewhere years back - AND AS I SAID; if you think that you're only getting inconsistent "It is that way because I say so" answers, then it is your moral right to continue questioning.
But...
There are scientifically based indications that Cannabis seed embryos are epigamic, so the basic question is wrong. The question should be:
IS a seed male or female?
The answer is one or the other, depending on X factors that can reverse the sex. Science is experience, because researchers do not only document their results, but also the methods they use in order to obtain them, so that other researchers can verify their results.
In your quest for answers, you should tap the main source of information, the basic research made on the subject.

and thanks solely to Beancounter we now have one grower here who has actually done the experiment and proved it didn't work for him.....so when you think about it, all the other posts in this thread (apart from the first post and Beancounter's post) really are bullshit!

No, you simply missed it. The basic research has already been done, results have been published.
It's there for you to read.
You can choose to ignore it, and spend your days checking seeds for male or female signs.

It's a bit like proving that the world is flat by walking until you hit the edge.

The problem with this info....

Is that there is little proof that any of it works....

While dutch passion did some tests with feminized seeds....

There are no experiments where a bunch of seeds were split in two....

half given optimum female conditions the other optimum male conditions


Im not saying it doesnt have an effect just there is nothing Ive seen that proves their conclusions even marginally....

Its not even a difficult experiment.... which of course makes me even more suspicious....

Your doubt is justified budleydoright, there's no reason why you should accept anything if it doesn't correspond with your own observations, and Dutch Passion's experiences are not undisputable fact.

Then again, if you say that their conclusions makes you suspicious, what kind of observations have you made that indicate the contrary?

I ask you that because my own observations indicate not only that they're right, but that even more factors then they mention can lead to sex reversal in the Cannabis plant.

Let me just state that we're talking about factors that create shifts in male/female ratios, not foolproof ways of changing the sex of a plant.

I tell you that because through the years, I've encountered a lot of hobby growers that call BS on Dutch Passion.
They tried to recreate the perfect female environment (according to DP) for their single ten pack of seeds, and still they ended up with 6 males and 4 females, so their conclusion is it's all bunk.

In order to seriously test and question DP's results, you should match their operation and methods of verifying them.
Grow thousands of plants and systematically change the grow environment in order to see what it does to the male/female ratios.

Then you call bluff.

 

[Guest]

Ugh!

 

[Guest]

In short, it goes like this:

a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females.
a higher potassium concentration will give more males.
a higher humidity will give more females.
a lower temperature will give more females.
more blue light will give more females.
Fewer hours of light will give more females.

=====================================

Recently there was a thread from sproutco claiming the addition or boron might be the key to larger flowers....

Great this to me is very suspicious simply because both cannabis and borax have been around for decades...

Its a very easy thing to do... my conclusion was its too obvious and easy to do to actually work....


Now lets look at what it would take to run an experiment for increasing feamales.... as you can see Im not suggesting that this treatment will make them all females....

lets say you can get 60% females..... by doing a few fairly simple things...

a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females.
a higher potassium concentration will give more males.
a higher humidity will give more females.
a lower temperature will give more females.
more blue light will give more females.
Fewer hours of light will give more females.


now here is a list of those things that are difficult to achieve...

none of the above....


its simple....

its so simple again I have a hard time believing that there isnt an experiment proving the point.....

take a bunch of seeds and prove it....

Im not saying it might not be true...

just suspicious cause it would be so easy to do....

 

[Verite]

[ fast forward 30 years ]

After three decades of rigorous research its final.

Using feminized seeds will produce more females.

 

[Guest]

if this were true the seed banks would use it to there advantage..listen to logic and reason...sure i can guess heads it dont mean its not going to be tales..i got some real estate on mars up for sale..you interested...dont worry about transportation they will have it available..just believe me

BS... or not?

The stuff about it being common to find a female in 1 out of 10 seeds seemed a bit absurd to me.

 

[dwtc]

VERITE dude you never let me down. anytime i want a good laugh, i look for youre posts, and to see what new avatar you got. cracks me up everytime.



POPS from what i can remember from biology( and the discovory channel) you hit the nail on the head. humans at one point have both female/male parts, and when the gene lets of the signal to be femal/male, the organ will either grow inword(female) or grow outword(male). BUT in all cases nothing is perfect including MOTHER NATURE, if ya catch my drift.




to everybodyelse i can see where CHAMBA is coming from. all he's sayin is keep an open mind. if we diddn't keep an open mind we would probbably still be making tools out of rocks and using grunts as language. we can learn somethin new everyday, but it takes an open mind to do so.


stay safe,,,,,,,,,,dwtc