Setting up my first grow

[Lathund]

Hello ICMag!

I started a thread over at the growroom design area, didn't get much response. Thought I'd try over here, since I am a total rookie and have no grow under my belt yet. The old thread can be found here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=245173

So I have a spare room that I can use solely for growing. It's in an apartment though, so I can't make any major changes, no permanent damage. I was first thinking about getting a Secret Jardin DR90 Twin. But I can be a bit anal when doing things, either I go all in or I don't go at all. I feel like I will miss out on alot of space if I go with a tent (picture of room can be seen below).

So a friend then told me about smell neutralizers, like ONA-gel/block. Apparently this will eliminate the smell, and apparently it's very effective at it. The problem is, I don't actually know if it works. I'd like people with experience to chime in here and tell me if I'll be good with just a neutralizer or if I have to go with a carbon filter?

At the top left corner of the picture there is a small window. The window can't be opened, but there is a small venting hatch on it. The hatch is 15-20cm wide and like 1cm "high" when opened max. I was thinking, maybe I can put a piece of plywood to cover up the window. Then cut a hole in the plywood and direct outgoing air through the venting hatch? And if that is possible, what about incoming air? Is the gaps in a regular doorway enough (closed door)?

I also attached two pictures regarding grow styles. At first I was leaning towards a SOG grow (second picture, the green area in the picture is the space where I will have plants, white area is place for me to move). Been told it's faster. But if I understand things correctly it only shortens vegtime, bloom is still the same. So now I'm leaning towards a bushstyle grow, and vegging a new set of plants while the old ones are blooming. Being able to put a new batch of clones in bloom right after harvest (third picture). Opinions?

Either way I was thinking about going with hempy buckets. If doing bushgrow I found pots that are like 27x24.5cm and holds around 18L (4.5 gallons), wich would make me able to do like 20 plants in bloom at a time. These would be lighted with two 600W HPS. Plants in veg would be under T5 flourescents. Advice regarding lighting is always welcome though.

I'll stop here for now and hopefully some of you more enlightened people can help a fellow out.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Jnugg]

There are alot of variables one has to consider other then just size of room available,things like circuits/electricity,how much lighting,how much ventilation,how much cooling,what are the temps of the room etc.

Try to keep the room between 68 & 75°f & get a dr90 and use at least a 400w HPS in a 6l aircooled reflector but prefferably a 600w HPS in a 6" aircooled reflector.use a 4" 150-170cfm to 6" 350-392cfm inline centrifugal fan (ecoplus,vortex,or canfan) to aircool the light(s).Set it up so the fan sucks cool air from the room through ducting into the sealed reflector over the bulb out more ducting through the fan through more ducting ran out the tent to the attic or into another room that can benefit the heat from the light or out the window via a window exhaust box.Use a 4" inline centrifugal fan coupled with a 4" carbon filter like a can 9000 or can 33.Set the fan high in the tent opposit the side of your passive intake(s) with a small run of ducting between it and the carbon filter.Make sure the fan is sucking/pulling air through the carbon filter not blowing through it.Exhaust into attic or another room or out a window via a window exhaust box.

All that coupled with good genetics good feeding schedule you should get 1\2-1 pound depending on light genetics etc.

Start small for you're first grow,learn about the plant how it grows etc.Read all the stickies in each forum aswell as pick up a good book on marijiana indoor horticulture.Not very wise to just jump right in.

 

[Lathund]

The main circuit for the apartment is 25 amps, I don't know how much the individual circuits can hold though. The switchboard says 230/400V and they are called Multi 9 C60H and the brand is Merlin Gerin.

The lighting would be 2x 600W HPS, wich would be around 60W/sq feet.

The temps and ventilation is a bit trickier as I don't know if the window thing will work. I'll take temps today.

I don't think you read my entire post, as I can't run any ducting to another room or any attic, as I said I live in an apartment and can't do any permanent damage to it.

Honestly I don't see the point in buying a growtent, wich aren't cheap, wich I know I'll want to upgrade from. It's not like I need to use every inch right from the get go, I'll start small with like 10 seeds.

 

[They]

If you cannot vent the heat out or cool with AC, you cannot grow.

 

[Keep goin]

There are alot of variables one has to consider other then just size of room available,things like circuits/electricity,how much lighting,how much ventilation,how much cooling,what are the temps of the room etc.

I would agree with this statement...and the rest of your post as well.

Lathund if you have some limitations..ie: I can't vent out the window, etc. You are going to have to change your whole approach.

You need to start there!! Then make some decisions... If you can't vent out you will need to do a tent, or enclosure of some type. To be able to control temps. You can build one pretty easy.

You should also start smaller. I don't think you can run 2x 600w HPS (actually I know you can't!!) without ventilation.
From your lay out concepts your area to move looks too small...and one sided. It's good to be able to approach the garden from both sides for maintenance.

You're also going to want to set up a clone and veg area so you can go perpetual. Put em in to bloom clone off them...by the time they are done the next batch will be ready to go.

In an apartment setting I would seriously consider an LED grow. After years of research and owning a couple of LED units. I know what they are capable of and how much misinformation is out there. I would get the California Lightworks Solar Flare 200w units...165w at the plug, 5w chips driven at near peak. Put 4 per 4x4 area, maybe 6x6 (don't pay attention to manufacturers recommendations for coverage) The big chips will give you penetration, and you won't be disappointed in the final product.

The heat will be easier to deal with though.

In an apartment you are going to need a carbon filter AND ona...get the pro gel it's the strongest.

If you think you are going to have a lb to lb and a half growing in your apartment and your neighbors won't know...you're fooling yourself! (sorry, but that's the deal) Weed stinks, and the biggest problem is being around it all the time...you'll start not to notice!!

Figure out what you can do with heat, light and ventilation...work within your limitations and have fun with it.

Don't start too big, or you'll regret it...get a couple of grows under your belt you can always expand.

Good Luck, Stay Safe!

 

[Penguin59]

Hi Lathund! Welcome to ICMAG friend

Great to hear that you're jumping in with both feet, that's the best way to get started IMO. Go hard then go home haha.

I would wholeheartedly recommend a tent setup to get you started and the Secret Jardin varieties are great from what I hear. Reason I recommend a tent setup to start is that they're easy and self-contained units. A tent gives you limitations on space but makes things easier to control as a result.

If you have the time/patience to veg for a while I would go with a SCROG type setup over SOG. You'll be able to get the same yield as a SOG but with less plants. Less plants = less to maintain and a lower security risk. Just my 2c.

 

[Penguin59]

*Double Post*

 

[Lathund]

I would agree with this statement...and the rest of your post as well.

Lathund if you have some limitations..ie: I can't vent out the window, etc. You are going to have to change your whole approach.

I understand that, I'm in no way in tunnel vision in my idea of my grow room. I'm a rookie and trying to learn. It just seems like... A waste not using the entire room. And it would be great to be able to not spend money on tents. Is there any way I can calculate how much airflow my venting hatch can receive? I understand if the fan pushes too much air towards it, it will break, if the hatch can't receive as much as the fan pushes in.

You need to start there!! Then make some decisions... If you can't vent out you will need to do a tent, or enclosure of some type. To be able to control temps. You can build one pretty easy.

Isn't it hard to build a "smell-proof" enclosure? If you have any links to a similar DIY I'm very interested!

You should also start smaller. I don't think you can run 2x 600w HPS (actually I know you can't!!) without ventilation.
From your lay out concepts your area to move looks too small...and one sided. It's good to be able to approach the garden from both sides for maintenance.

You're also going to want to set up a clone and veg area so you can go perpetual. Put em in to bloom clone off them...by the time they are done the next batch will be ready to go.

I actually thought about that. But I intended on screening the room of as shown in the pictures. Just put some wood spacings on the floor/walls/ceiling, and then some of that plastic that is white on one side and black on the other. And when I need to get to the veg chamber I could just move a few plants out of the room for that period of time. This way I could veg in that area while I bloom in the other.

In an apartment setting I would seriously consider an LED grow. After years of research and owning a couple of LED units. I know what they are capable of and how much misinformation is out there. I would get the California Lightworks Solar Flare 200w units...165w at the plug, 5w chips driven at near peak. Put 4 per 4x4 area, maybe 6x6 (don't pay attention to manufacturers recommendations for coverage) The big chips will give you penetration, and you won't be disappointed in the final product.

I've been looking a bit on LED's as well. But they are so freaking expensive... I don't think I can afford it, not right now anyway.

The heat will be easier to deal with though.

In an apartment you are going to need a carbon filter AND ona...get the pro gel it's the strongest.

If you think you are going to have a lb to lb and a half growing in your apartment and your neighbors won't know...you're fooling yourself! (sorry, but that's the deal) Weed stinks, and the biggest problem is being around it all the time...you'll start not to notice!!

Figure out what you can do with heat, light and ventilation...work within your limitations and have fun with it.

Don't start too big, or you'll regret it...get a couple of grows under your belt you can always expand.

Good Luck, Stay Safe!

Thanks alot for your reply!

 

[Lathund]

Hi Lathund! Welcome to ICMAG friend

Great to hear that you're jumping in with both feet, that's the best way to get started IMO. Go hard then go home haha.

I would wholeheartedly recommend a tent setup to get you started and the Secret Jardin varieties are great from what I hear. Reason I recommend a tent setup to start is that they're easy and self-contained units. A tent gives you limitations on space but makes things easier to control as a result.

If you have the time/patience to veg for a while I would go with a SCROG type setup over SOG. You'll be able to get the same yield as a SOG but with less plants. Less plants = less to maintain and a lower security risk. Just my 2c.

Thanks!

All in or not at all!

I've been looking at SJ DR90 Twin. If using that one I'd be going SOG since the top chamber is limited in height. I'd love to be able to use the room without a tent though.

Do you have any other advice on tents that would utilize as much space as possible?

 

[Keep goin]

Hey,

Just read your reply...

The point of using tents..whether built (which I have) or purchased is that you WILL be using the entire room. Just not all of it for plant space!! The area surrounding your enclosures WILL be used, for climate control!! The room will act as a buffer zone. You will be venting into the room, then having to deal with the changes in there.

To buy, or build is really up to you. Advantages of buying is if it's well designed and built. You can have it up and running QUIETLY and quickly. As opposed to building (I'm thinking again of the apartment limitations)...you'll be making LOTS of noise hammering, cutting, screwing, etc. More expensive to buy, YES! Easier, YES. Up to you, YES!

Isn't it hard to build a "smell-proof" enclosure? If you have any links to a similar DIY I'm very interested!

Me TOO!!

Umm...I didn't mean that you could build a smell proof enclosure...I meant you will HAVE LOTS of smell..!! In an apartment, it will probably be one of the biggest challenges!! Be careful, that's all.

Every time I get close to harvest my shit stinks up even surrounding my garage...I live on a couple of acres so I just freak out for a few days before getting everything buttoned up...in an apartment, that would be the end of you!! And that's going through a carbon filter, with timed sprayers in adjacent areas to deal with odor!!

IT SMELLS, BE READY!!

Make sure you can keep bloom area completely dark when setting up an adjacent veg area. That's very important. You can work in the dark with a green light...but no light from the veg can mix in!

LED's "look" expensive..but you need to look at ALL the factors. Need of AC, or no. Easier venting, LED grows like it a little hotter. No bulbs to replace. HPS you'll replace bulbs every 6 months to year. At 100 bucks a piece, well you get the picture. The electricity thing is a myth..(to me) I think you need to match, or almost match watt for watt usage to get results that you won't be disappointed with.

If it's too much, it's too much...but look at it all. The California Lightworks Solar Flare 200w units are probably the best I've found in all my research (VERY, VERY extensive)... (full disclosure: I don't own them "yet", it is definitely my next purchase though...I currently have the Lumigrow ES330) But if I had it to do over I would have bought 2 of the 200w Solar Flares. Similar build, US made, etc. 165w at the plug and you can spread them out. With LED you need to COVER the canopy. If you want canopy you need light over it. Manufacturers "wild" claims of coverage are to be ignored!

They are 400 bucks a piece. Depending on what you are doing, in other words, why you are growing. You can start with one, use your 1st harvest to re invest, etc. You should be able to cover a 2'x2' area with one of those lights. Work your numbers up from there. With 4 of them you'd be KILLING a full 4x4 area...and matching HPS numbers for sure!! Yes 1600 in but a lb to lb and a half out...you do the math.

Good Luck...man I'm rambling, hope it helps!?

 

[Lathund]

Hey Keep goin! Thanks for your reply!

True, when looking at it that way I can see what you mean. You got to work with what you got I guess. Man I want a house with a big basement

So even with carbon filter it will stink up my apartment? That sucks... I thought the carbon filter would eliminate smell.

I think I'll wait with the LED's until I see some grow diaries with good numbers. I am interested in it though, we'll see what I'll decide.

Do you have any tent(s) you'd recommend for setting up a perpetual grow?
And what sort of grow would you run to get the biggest yield? SOG?

You're definitley helping! Thanks!

 

[Penguin59]

Other recommendations for tent setups that maximise space would be to keep your carbon filter on the outside of the tent rather than mounting it on the inside of the tent close to the roof. This will give you a bit more space on the inside of the tent to play with.

If going with a SOG style grow, I would also use thin but deep containers for your plants eg. use 3 litre juice/soft drink bottles with the tops cut off. That way you can pack heaps and heaps of plants into a square tent space. When the plants start to branch out a bit, cut all of their side branches off and just make them all really tall lollipops. This will make sure your light source can penetrate through to all the plants evenly.

Keep goin was right on the money on a few points above too. The space around the outside of the tent will be used as a buffer for the inside of the tent. You'll have to keep a close eye on how hot the temps are when venting into the surrounding room and to make sure fresh air is always being pumped in. That was definitely right about the grower being desensitised to the odour these girls put out. When I'm home I can sit in my grow room and not smell a thing and then the wife comes home and goes "why do they have to be so pungent???". And there's me just sitting there swearing black and blue that there's no smell lol.

 

[Keep goin]

Hey Keep goin! Thanks for your reply!

No problem...glad to help!

Man I want a house with a big basement

Yeah, that's what you need if you are goin big!!

So even with carbon filter it will stink up my apartment? That sucks... I thought the carbon filter would eliminate smell.

well everything is relative... "eliminate" NO !! In an apartment setting I wouldn't "trust it" too far. I remember living in an apartment and they (my neighbors) wanted to call the cops on me for smoking...wasn't even growing at that point!??

I think I'll wait with the LED's until I see some grow diaries with good numbers. I am interested in it though, we'll see what I'll decide.

Dude, go check out the LED light area...there is plenty of "evidence" of good grows, with good numbers. Just follow the advice I put forth in order to not be disappointed. They ROCK!! My veg under LED crushes my floro veg. For Bloom, you just need enough of them to cover the canopy.

Do you have any tent(s) you'd recommend for setting up a perpetual grow?

No, I can't speak directly to this...but you should be able to find recommendations on here. As I said, I have built my enclosures. (I'm cheap, and have enough space to not worry about neighbors hearing me "banging" around!)

And what sort of grow would you run to get the biggest yield? SOG?

Just match your veg to what you want to end up with in bloom. Plant count might be important to you? (dependent on state your in??) SOG is A LOT of plants...no doubt, great yield, but draw backs for sure. I asked (and you have the answer) what are your goals? Personal smoke? Semi-comerc? That will also help you decide how many plants...I get great results going with 6-9 plants per 3x3 table. With 6 I need to veg em a little longer (flip em at 14-16") with 9 I flip em at 8-10". This will also be determined by your strain, I have sativa-ish plants that fill the space completely at those numbers. I drop a screen on them a couple of weeks into bloom to support them.
I also find it easier logistically to clone and veg in perpetual with those kind of numbers...SOG you are looking at 4 times those numbers...4 plants per square foot!! Too much for me! For a number of reasons...

You're definitley helping! Thanks!

Good ^^ I'm trying...

 

[Lathund]

It's kind of funny, I read and read every day, the more I read the more I feel like a rookie! There's just sooo much to learn! Hopefully my questions are not to blatantly retarded. And I appreciate you guys taking the time to answer them.

P59: Yeah I've gathered as much regarding the filter, would be best to keep it outside the tent. And the fan inside, with intake being passive. I'd like to keep the door to the room closed though, a bit pondered if the gaps by the door will be enough for fresh air supply. I can ofcourse have the venting hatch open as well, depending on what the temps would be.

Keep goin: Alright, point taken. Carbon filter for air from the tent and ONA-gel in the room. Should work? Your former neighbours sounds like some vigilante wannabees... Good riddance!

I live in Europe, so plant count doesn't matter really, still illegal. SOG is indeed alot of plants! Wich means I need to keep more mothers to be able to keep up. Wich in turn means more space for non flowering plants. I don't know if this is correct but with bush grows you get more spill? Wich you can make bubble from

The goals is mainly for personal use. I've never ever smoked, but want to try for pain relief and help to sleep. So indica it is for me. That said, I do want to go a bit bigger than my own needs to make a buck or two. So semi-comerc probably? As to what strain I havn't made a final decision yet. Looking at Blue Cheese, Jack Herer and a few others. I don't want a super couch lock but I want something for pain and sleep.

For SOG I was thinking 15x15cm pots, wich would be 4 plants per square foot. For bush I was thinking 1 plant per square foot. 25-30cmx25-30cm pots. Wich way would give the highest yield if you were to guess/know? Honestly leaning towards bigger plants, mainly because I like the looks of bigger plants

I saw a tent that looks like it would suit my needs for flowering. Secret Jardin, Dark Room 120w II 120 x 60 x 160cm. But when I think about it (the thought just crossed my mind) I can fit more plants in a 90x90? Bah! I think the Secret Jardin Twin would be the best for me after all...

 

[Lathund]

Oh I forgot to mention. I looked a bit on these waterfarms. People seem to grow freaking monsters in those! But then I read a thread saying you want only one of those per square meter, wich means one plant in the Twin tent. Do you really need that much room?!

 

[Keep goin]

Oh I forgot to mention. I looked a bit on these waterfarms. People seem to grow freaking monsters in those! But then I read a thread saying you want only one of those per square meter, wich means one plant in the Twin tent. Do you really need that much room?!

Again, time spent in veg will determine size of end plant. If you want to veg for 2 or 3 months you will have plants that size!!
If you veg for 4-6 weeks and top em you will have plants more manageable...ie: you can fit 4 to 6 plants in that space!!

Waterfarms are super easy...but you can "build" one (better) pretty easily also...5 gal bucket with a net pot top (pre fab at hydro shop) or roto zip (cut) the black top of a regular bucket to the size you want. (I do 5.5" net pots with hydroton)
Then just get a super small (smallest you can get) submersible pump hook it up with 1/2" line coming up through the top of the bucket..punch 2 feed lines into it and stick them into the sides of the net pot...you can run it 24/7 (like the waterfarm) or you can put it on a timer and add an air line into the bucket for max O2 (your choice).

I would suggest, since you are just starting out...go with a few medium size plants. Huge plants are great...until something goes wrong. Now you've spent months growing and everything shits the bed!!

With the guidelines I laid out in my last post, you will end up with plants around 3' in height. Plenty since most lighting options (beyond a 1000w HPS, which YOU don't want!) won't penetrate beyond about 15-18" of canopy!

In regard to mother plants...I have NEVER had the luxury of space to run them!! I've had the same genetics running for years. Just try not to clone them past the first couple of weeks of bloom (they will have to revert to veg...takes longer) Take cuts from the bottoms of the plants as you are transferring them to bloom...they will become your replacements for the current round!!

Easy Peezy...

Again, Good Luck.

Plenty of other "ways" to do it...this is just my 2 cents.

 

[Lathund]

You're such a great help KG!

Threw together a to buy list from head-nature. Feel free to give opinions on it. Hopefully pulling the trigger this month.

Dark Room Twin 90
Electronic Ballast NXE Lumatek 400-600W dimmable
400W Sunmaster HPS Deluxe Sodium (or do I want to go with the 600?)
TNeon armature 2 x 55W
Philips Master PL-L 55W/865/4P Growth 6500K
Spudnik Reflector Prima Klima 125mm
Exhaust - Fan Kit 250 m³/h - 125mm

Total: 718€ = 921$.

 

[Keep goin]

You're such a great help KG!

Good, glad to help...

Threw together a to buy list from head-nature. Feel free to give opinions on it. Hopefully pulling the trigger this month.

Dark Room Twin 90 I think this is the Secret Jardin? I've heard good things...
Electronic Ballast NXE Lumatek 400-600W dimmable
Not sure what the NXE is? But Lumatek makes great digi ballasts, but you may want to ask about radio interference...since you're in an apartment, might be a problem. (check out some threads about RF signal interference) Would hate for some problems with peoples cable, or radio signals ending up traced to your grow!!?

400W Sunmaster HPS Deluxe Sodium (or do I want to go with the 600?)
Well, your ballast of choice IS the 600w! If you put a 600w bulb in it and put it down to the 400w setting it will be dimmer. If you're gonna run a 400w bulb, buy a 400w ballast.
Not sure if USHIO makes a 400w bulb, their 600w Opti-Red is by far my bulb of choice!!
TNeon armature 2 x 55W Not familiar..I'm assuming clone, or veg light? More than enough! You really only need a common CFL in a clip light...
Philips Master PL-L 55W/865/4P Growth 6500K This looks more like your veg light.? Should be fine. I veg with regular floros and a cheepo LED...LED kills it!! Better roots, better growth, Better!!
Spudnik Reflector Prima Klima 125mm Never heard of this one? I run Adjust-A-Wings...love em!
Exhaust - Fan Kit 250 m³/h - 125mm Your exhaust should be just a mathematical equation..."they" should be able to size you up correctly.

Total: 718€ = 921$.

I see you are opting for an HPS grow...It will be cheaper to get into, but hotter, and trickier to cope with in the enclosed area.
I've been growing HPS for MANY years...If I had unlimited funds, I would replace all of it with top notch LED's and never look back!
My statement above about my veg LED is actually a note I wrote to myself (on my wipe board calender) after looking at the difference in growth over my floros.
Take it for what it's worth!!

Good Luck.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
The great thing about your new "hobby" is...there are 100 ways to skin a cat...and they all work!! My goodness, I'm babbling again!!

 

[Jnugg]

Just picked up a DR90 myself the other day and those twins look nice.600w HPS is optimal over a 3' x 3' area,but a 400w HPS will suffice,just smaller yield.I'd use a 170 to 265cfm fan to cool the bulb in an aircooled reflector,and a small 4" 150 to 170cfm fan matched to a carbon filter for the tents ventilation.Exhaust all hot air into attic,another room,or out a window via a window exhaust box (simple box made from mdf,wood glue,screws.Cut holes for ventilation and light cooling ducting,paint inside black,lower and shut blinds,vrack window,fasten box over window).

Do NOT: Recirculate hot air from light cooling or ventilation back into the room the tent sits in or you will cause the temps in the room to go up causing temps in the tent to climb,exhaust somewhere other then that room.

 

[Lathund]

I see you are opting for an HPS grow...It will be cheaper to get into, but hotter, and trickier to cope with in the enclosed area.
I've been growing HPS for MANY years...If I had unlimited funds, I would replace all of it with top notch LED's and never look back!
My statement above about my veg LED is actually a note I wrote to myself (on my wipe board calender) after looking at the difference in growth over my floros.
Take it for what it's worth!!

Good Luck.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
The great thing about your new "hobby" is...there are 100 ways to skin a cat...and they all work!! My goodness, I'm babbling again!!
View Image

Yeah decided on HPS to start with. Definitley looking forward to experimenting with LED's in the future.