"Semi auto" landraces?

[Old Piney]

Somewhere I read that the semi auto trait was a dominant one ,if this is true all the F1 in a cross between a simi auto and a photoperiod would result in simi auto phenos. Well I can say good certainly now that is not the case. I crossed a Resoli Himalayan to Moroccan Beldia .The Resoli was very late wasn't fully matured in the beginning of November and the Beldia finished in mid-September. The F1 is just starting to show whereas the Beldia showed by mid July. I can also be fairly certain that the auto flower trait isn't a receive trait either. If it was all four of my female hybrids would not be showing at all. I'm thinking it's something in the middle, but I suppose it could be possible that they really aren't gonna do any thing late September, but I think this is unlikely because the males all showed first and were buded up good. The F1s are uniform and all showed at the same time Here's the Beldia pictured last August 17, I'll post up some pics of the F1s as soon as there is something to see

 

[Tranquilidade]

Somewhere I read that the semi auto trait was a dominant one ,if this is true all the F1 in a cross between a simi auto and a photoperiod would result in simi auto phenos. Well I can say good certainly now that is not the case. I crossed a Resoli Himalayan to Moroccan Beldia .The Resoli was very late wasn't fully matured in the beginning of November and the Beldia finished in mid-September. The F1 is just starting to show whereas the Beldia showed by mid July. I can also be fairly certain that the auto flower trait isn't a receive trait either. If it was all four of my female hybrids would not be showing at all. I'm thinking it's something in the middle, but I suppose it could be possible that they really aren't gonna do any thing late September, but I think this is unlikely because the males all showed first and were buded up good. The F1s are uniform and all showed at the same time Here's the Beldia pictured last August 17, I'll post up some pics of the F1s as soon as there is something to see View attachment 19048418

I've heard the theory that semi-autos dominate in F1, but I'm glad you have proof that this isn't true. Should we be looking at F2 for this instead?

I have Lebanese going, which will be pollinated with Shantibaba's Nordle male. Both are excellent hash plants, but I'm hoping Nordle will boost the potency of the Lebanese.

 

[whiteberrieS]

Skorpion

 

[Old Piney]

Should we be looking at F2 for this instead?

If your looking phenos flowering as early as the simi auto parent , I believe yes, there should be some expressed in the F2s. However you will also have all kinds of orher trait combinations as well. I suppose they could also all still have a consistent in the middle maturation time though .Unfortunately I can't do that test this year I didn't save any males, but it sounds like you can. For me ill be happy with a in the middle time even second week in October would be fine. I like F1s they are consistent makes things easy .

 

[Asentrouw]

So are you growing some of these out now and what were the two parents?

Last year I grew some out.

I had a Wild Royal Dane male (starts flowering halfway july @ lat 53) pollinate several later flowering outdoor strains like Swiss Miss, Ierdbei, Viking and Double Blanche (flower usually halfway august @ lat 53).

But the flowering times of its offspring seem very pheno dependent, with flowering times all over the place.

Maybe not a good representation as some of these strains are already unstable polyhybrids, so its a lucky shot anyway. But makes me doubt "semi-auto" traits are by definition dominant.

 

[Old Piney]

Last year I grew some out.

I had a Wild Royal Dane male (starts flowering halfway july @ lat 53) pollinate several later flowering outdoor strains like Swiss Miss, Ierdbei, Viking and Double Blanche (flower usually halfway august @ lat 53).

But the flowering times of its offspring seem very pheno dependent, with flowering times all over the place.

Maybe not a good representation as some of these strains are already unstable polyhybrids, so its a lucky shot anyway. But makes me doubt "semi-auto" traits are by definition dominant.

I'm not at all familiar with any of those strains , they are definitely not simi auto landraces I looked up one the wild Royal Dane ,it's hybrid crossed with a wild auto. Auto flower is definitely a receive trait , to make it short you definitely got a lot to sort though, again I don't think they are simi auto strains at all IMO

 

[Asentrouw]

I'm not at all familiar with any of those strains , they are definitely not simi auto landraces I looked up one the wild Royal Dane ,it's hybrid crossed with a wild auto. Auto flower is definitely a receive trait , to make it short you definitely got a lot to sort though, again I don't think they are simi auto strains at all IMO

These Danish strains are comparable to early nordic outdoor genetics such as Guerilla Gold, Auto Affie and the likes. I agree, they are polyhybrids and not real landraces.

However, although being a hybrid, these strains are quite inbred and relatively stable. In my region they always flower around july, which is very early.

But as far as I know they don't contain any auto (=ruderalis) genes. These are photoperiod plants.

They flower already around 8h of darkness instead of 12. But put them under 24h of light they never flower, unlike real auto's that flower regardless of light hours.

IMO that's the definition of "semi-auto". A trait that's also found in some landraces anf these northern hybrids a like.

 

[Asentrouw]

I'm not at all familiar with any of those strains , they are definitely not simi auto landraces I looked up one the wild Royal Dane ,it's hybrid crossed with a wild auto. Auto flower is definitely a receive trait , to make it short you definitely got a lot to sort though, again I don't think they are simi auto strains at all IMO

These strains are comparable to early nordic outdoor genetics such as Guerilla Gold, Auto Affie and the likes. I agree, they are polyhybrids and not real landraces.

However, although being a hybrid, these strains are quite inbred and relatively stable. In my region they always flower around july, which is very early.

But as far as I know they don't contain any auto (=ruderalis) genes (unlike all these so-called "fast" strains). These are photoperiod plants.

They flower already around 8h of darkness instead of 12. But put them under 24h of light they never flower, unlike real auto's that flower regardless of light hours.

IMO that's the definition of "semi-auto". A trait that's also found in some landraces and these northern hybrids a like. Maybe very light sensative photoperiod plants might be a better description. It might be a recessive trait, but as these Danish genetics show it can be bred/locked in.

Another thing these Danish strains have in common with the mentioned landraces is that stress factors (rootbound, etc.) also can cause them to flower or reveg. No clue as to why they do that though.

 

[cbotany]

I think some siberians are just extremely fast flowering, in a dream world I'd love to find a few you can reveg and take cuttings off, Ace seeds hokkaido (japanese )line semi autos, and Kentucky (a usa landrace) both show a similar early flowering, and revegging trait. It will somewhat flower to throw seeds, reveg, and then fully flower, but that also may be due to how I'm growing them.

 

[Old Piney]

On the topic of semi-auto x photo f1s with surprising results
Post in thread 'Lebanese'
https://www.icmag.com/threads/lebanese.349127/post-18719811

 

[Cinderella69]

i mean a tropical plant auto flowering , why would it do that ??

answer , it wouldnt , there is no need

Are you sure? On the equator the day length only varies few minutes over the year it seems this is not sufficient to trigger flowering. Some of the equatorial Sativas have adapted by developing autoflowering traits. Ed Rosenthal wrote in the Cannabis Growers Handbook on Page 38:
“Most varieties of cannabis are short day/long night plants, with the possible exception of C. ruderalis and some equatorial C.sativa varieties that are commonly described as auto-flowering and may be day-neutral”

I was "researching" the topic of day length in relation to the start of flowering. I'm at 50° latitude and I'm searching for something that triggers flower between 16 to 15 hours of day length. I stumbled upon semi autos because they supposedly trigger early. Khalifagenetics answered an email about their Beldia and its semi auto traits. Early flower can be triggered by root space, poor soil and other stress factors. According to Khalifa their Beldia will start flowering below 15h45min of day length. I'm planning on making seeds in a tent this year and the idea is to just select the ones that start flowering at 15h30min of light and put the seeds outdoor next year an see what happens.

 

[Nannymouse]

Has anyone tried to breed 'speed' into a line? For instance, mating a very quick-to-preflower female and mate her back to sons? I did with one of my old lines, maybe three times over the years...each time tossing the seeds back into the 'other' seeds from that line. Under 24 hour light some of the offspring preflower so heavily (and with such long duration) that those types can be pollinated and seed matured and taken (ratted through quite harshly), up potted and will still stay in preflower under 24 hour light all the way(so much in 'pre-flower' that an experienced grower thought it was under 12-12. (nope, still 24 hour)) One of the ancestors was C99, and i've heard that she has a pheno that is termed 'semi auto'. There's also Blueberry ancestry, which can also have very quick flowering, and Vic's Romulan, which i have no idea of any quick finishing phenos, there.

 

[Nannymouse]

Are you sure? On the equator the day length only varies few minutes over the year it seems this is not sufficient to trigger flowering. Some of the equatorial Sativas have adapted by developing autoflowering traits. Ed Rosenthal wrote in the Cannabis Growers Handbook on Page 38:
“Most varieties of cannabis are short day/long night plants, with the possible exception of C. ruderalis and some equatorial C.sativa varieties that are commonly described as auto-flowering and may be day-neutral”

I was "researching" the topic of day length in relation to the start of flowering. I'm at 50° latitude and I'm searching for something that triggers flower between 16 to 15 hours of day length. I stumbled upon semi autos because they supposedly trigger early. Khalifagenetics answered an email about their Beldia and its semi auto traits. Early flower can be triggered by root space, poor soil and other stress factors. According to Khalifa their Beldia will start flowering below 15h45min of day length. I'm planning on making seeds in a tent this year and the idea is to just select the ones that start flowering at 15h30min of light and put the seeds outdoor next year an see what happens.

I've pondered this. WHY would an equatorial 'need' to go faster? Maybe it isn't the daylight hours driving all the 'speed' factors. So, if there was a large 'forest' of Cannabis, and there were 'disasters', the speedier individuals might have the advantage of maturing seed, whilst the later ones not getting to mature their seed. A couple of bad years, and the quicker ones would have more genetics in the 'field'.

Also, i've wondered if 'field placement' could be a factor. The plants that can reproduce fast enough to not get shaded out by the longer flowering phenos, could make for a quicker version.

Just stuff i've pondered. There has to be a reason or reasons that there are variations within the plants growing at the same latitude? I mean, besides the fact that there must have been a deep ancestral base that accounts for all the possibilities and adaptations.

 

[chilliwilli]

Has anyone tried to breed 'speed' into a line? For instance, mating a very quick-to-preflower female and mate her back to sons? I did with one of my old lines, maybe three times over the years...each time tossing the seeds back into the 'other' seeds from that line. Under 24 hour light some of the offspring preflower so heavily (and with such long duration) that those types can be pollinated and seed matured and taken (ratted through quite harshly), up potted and will still stay in preflower under 24 hour light all the way(so much in 'pre-flower' that an experienced grower thought it was under 12-12. (nope, still 24 hour)) One of the ancestors was C99, and i've heard that she has a pheno that is termed 'semi auto'. There's also Blueberry ancestry, which can also have very quick flowering, and Vic's Romulan, which i have no idea of any quick finishing phenos, there.

I only know the "fast" lines were they breed the autoflower line with the regular line to get ~1 week earlier harvest time.

 

[Shua1991]

About 40% of the "Purple zamal x A5Haze" have autoflowering tendencies, some may be able to finish outdoors in NY while still being a sativa haze hybrid, those plants will have a few seeds from my male selections(querkle) which also has a semi-autoflowering trait from purple urkle.

 

[Genghis Kush.]

I made (Transkei f2 x cannabiogen Durban) X ( love of landrace - 80 s Durban Poison)

some start pre flowering early july at 40 north

but I start them in april

 

[Sensistar42]

Has anyone tried to breed 'speed' into a line? For instance, mating a very quick-to-preflower female and mate her back to sons? I did with one of my old lines, maybe three times over the years...each time tossing the seeds back into the 'other' seeds from that line. Under 24 hour light some of the offspring preflower so heavily (and with such long duration) that those types can be pollinated and seed matured and taken (ratted through quite harshly), up potted and will still stay in preflower under 24 hour light all the way(so much in 'pre-flower' that an experienced grower thought it was under 12-12. (nope, still 24 hour)) One of the ancestors was C99, and i've heard that she has a pheno that is termed 'semi auto'. There's also Blueberry ancestry, which can also have very quick flowering, and Vic's Romulan, which i have no idea of any quick finishing phenos, there.

A couple of my sensi stars from akbb were like this. Always preflowing no matter what and I was keeping a couple of male Lebanese from ace with them. The lebs kept up with the pollen sacs. 4in tall in beer cups and pollenated the star a few times and got about 50ish seeds before it went into flower one last time. It was great now if I could just do that with everything.

Still need to pop those, maybe next year.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Are you sure? On the equator the day length only varies few minutes over the year it seems this is not sufficient to trigger flowering. Some of the equatorial Sativas have adapted by developing autoflowering traits. Ed Rosenthal wrote in the Cannabis Growers Handbook on Page 38:
“Most varieties of cannabis are short day/long night plants, with the possible exception of C. ruderalis and some equatorial C.sativa varieties that are commonly described as auto-flowering and may be day-neutral”

I was "researching" the topic of day length in relation to the start of flowering. I'm at 50° latitude and I'm searching for something that triggers flower between 16 to 15 hours of day length. I stumbled upon semi autos because they supposedly trigger early. Khalifagenetics answered an email about their Beldia and its semi auto traits. Early flower can be triggered by root space, poor soil and other stress factors. According to Khalifa their Beldia will start flowering below 15h45min of day length. I'm planning on making seeds in a tent this year and the idea is to just select the ones that start flowering at 15h30min of light and put the seeds outdoor next year an see what happens.

I'm sure, I've lived in the tropics and grown cannabis here most of my life.
Sure cannabis reacts to day, night length and cannabis from the tropics is more sensitive to small changes both in that and in reaction to seasonal changes, plants read those things and react to them.. as I said I have been watching for some time and have had access to all manner of seed lines in order to experiment and see what works and why..

 

[Donald Mallard]

I think the tropics is just quite foreign to folks who have always lived in temperate climates and mostly only read about it in books and documentaries.
I've had my hands in tropical soil for at least 35 years and I've grown multitudes of landraces like thai, laos , Colombian and African varieties here , I've experimented with flowering times , when to plant , what to plant, when they trigger flowering and the stimulus to do so, I've grown large crops for decades and documented a lot on here when I've had time to do so.
I've spoken to many other tropical growers about the experiences I've had who all say there is very little written about growing in the tropics, the do s and don'ts and what to do and when to do it,
So yes im very sure about the many decades of experience and thousands apon thousands of plants grown that has led me to the conclusions I have about growing in the tropics, I am not just guessing like some folks who try to educate others about it may be..

 

[Old Piney]

Moroccan Beldia x Rasoli today

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