"Semi auto" landraces?

[revegeta666]

Hi! Hopefully someone can educate me on this subject

I have been wondering about the actual meaning of "semi auto" when talking about landraces. For example lebanese, moroccan, or zamal. When people say "semi", are they referring only to the way they start flowering earlier and also when roots are space restricted? They don't tolerate irregularities in the photoperiod like rudelaris autos would, do they? Were they to be exposed to light pollution, would they also react by showing intersex?

It makes me think that they are not really autoflowering plants like rudelaris in the sense that rudelaris has a biologic ticking clock that makes it flower. It's more like they flower as a stress response to being rootbound. Is that fair?

Because isn't this what happens with some older mother plants that start flowering in small pots? In Spain there is a famous and overrated clone of Critical Mass, that is over 25 years old. It is quite annoying to keep as a mom because it seems as soon as the roots touch the edge of the pot, it will start flowering. Is this a similar situation? Just plants that are extremely eager to flower as a survival mechanism?

 

[zaprjaques]

Over at the ACE subforum in the Lebanese thread @repuk had a Lebanese P3 in a big pot keep flowering outdoors despite the hours getting longer. Nobody would have expected it, not even @dubi. Dont know if its the exception to the rule though.

 

[revegeta666]

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Over at the ACE subforum in the Lebanese thread @repuk had a Lebanese P3 in a big pot keep flowering outdoors despite the hours getting longer. Nobody would have expected it, not even @dubi. Dont know if its the exception to the rule though.

I already asked him myself in the last page of that thread lol. According to what he says, lebanese should react like normal photoperiodic plants to interruptions in night hours. So I guess it was an exception maybe. Curious to see what others say.

I was also asking because right now I have a zamal cross, and a couple of the females look really eager to start flowering. They have been preflowering for 2 weeks or so. Not even stretching yet, just producing a big amount of pistils. The other females just barely showed sex and dont seem to have intentions of flowering.

 

[goingrey]

Hi! Hopefully someone can educate me on this subject

I have been wondering about the actual meaning of "semi auto" when talking about landraces. For example lebanese, moroccan, or zamal. When people say "semi", are they referring only to the way they start flowering earlier and also when roots are space restricted? They don't tolerate irregularities in the photoperiod like rudelaris autos would, do they? Were they to be exposed to light pollution, would they also react by showing intersex?

It makes me think that they are not really autoflowering plants like rudelaris in the sense that rudelaris has a biologic ticking clock that makes it flower. It's more like they flower as a stress response to being rootbound. Is that fair?

Because isn't this what happens with some older mother plants that start flowering in small pots? In Spain there is a famous and overrated clone of Critical Mass, that is over 25 years old. It is quite annoying to keep as a mom because it seems as soon as the roots touch the edge of the pot, it will start flowering. Is this a similar situation? Just plants that are extremely eager to flower as a survival mechanism?

Yeah I think that's fair. Not real auto like ruderalis, but very eager to flower.

Dunno about the Spanish Crit but my best mom is really eager to put out pistils but it's kinda just perpetually preflowering and not really flowering. Can take clones and let them grow big no problem. It isn't really annoying at all IMO, just how it is.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

So far the Lebanese I'm working with definitely shows early flowering when root bound.The longer the day hours the slower the flowering.

Not really an auto 'cause you can reveg them if they have not been flowered for weeks past harvest in 12/12 or similar. Chop the top and rootball, replant with fresh soil and give 20hrs of light a day.

 

[Rembetis]

Strains like Lebanese and Moroccan, Sinai etc from Northern Africa and Asia Minor, grown in soil in their homelands will begin flowering in June. They trigger right after the longest day of the year and respond very quickly to the shorter light cycle. Often within a few days of the summer solstice. So, they are very sensitive to the light cycle, and I think that is where the "semi auto" idea comes from. Its far outside of the norm from what strains most people are growing. These particular strains straddle the line between Sativa and the BLD strains, but you can take advantage of their Sativa characteristics when growing them indoors. As you mentioned, stress from being rootbound can trigger flowering. One technique I use when growing old school landrace Sativas in a tent was a well-timed up potting to trigger flowering which allows me to keep them from becoming monsters in a 4x4 tent Sorry guys, senior moment. Fixed it now

 

[Lebanizer]

... They trigger right after the shortest day of the year and respond very quickly to the shorter light cycle. Often within a few days of the summer solstice. So, they are very sensitive to the light cycle, and I think that is where the "semi auto" idea comes from. ...

You probaly meant that they trigger right after the ***longest*** day of the year, right @Rembetis ?

 

[revegeta666]

You probaly meant that they trigger right after the ***longest*** day of the year, right @Rembetis ?

He mentioned the summer solstice 10 words later so I would think it should be pretty clear what he meant.

 

[revegeta666]

This is the plant I was talking about by the way. The cross is zamal x Jamaica.

It's been doing this for 15-20 days. I thought it was going to autoflower and stay small but that's not the case. Not stretching yet, just throwing a lot of pistils but not fully committing to the relationship. That's what I hear about myself pretty often as well so I can't blame her.

 

[Tranquilidade]

What will happen when you cross semi auto lebanese with photo? Does the F1 will be also semi auto, or you have to go the same route as with auto x photo for multiple generations to be fully autoflowering.

 

[Asentrouw]

What will happen when you cross semi auto lebanese with photo? Does the F1 will be also semi auto, or you have to go the same route as with auto x photo for multiple generations to be fully autoflowering.

I think it's a matter of further selection on this trait.

I crossed some so-called "semi auto's" with less light sensitive strains in an effort to make them more suitable (= earlier flowering) for an outdoor grow in the North.

But certainly not all the offspring is earlier, the trait does not carry on in all its offspring. So I guess more selection is needed.

 

[mudballs]

I think those are called "fast" versions when you do auto x photo

 

[Rocket Soul]

Over at the ACE subforum in the Lebanese thread @repuk had a Lebanese P3 in a big pot keep flowering outdoors despite the hours getting longer. Nobody would have expected it, not even @dubi. Dont know if its the exception to the rule though.

Ive seen flowering with days getting longer even in what i can only assume being photoperiod plants; my buddy had some Glue Trap clones of ours and at one point he put the plants out for a few days in spring, in order to save leccy in veg. It was too early, days were still too short and they jumped into flower and flowered out over the early summer finishing before midsummer, despite lengthening days. It ended up being the strongest facemelt-stone i ever tried.
Indoors the plants never did anything strange like that but only ever saw 18/6 and 12/12

 

[Eltitoguay]

Como quizá recuerdes, yo he observado (en latitud similar a la tuya) esa "semiautofloración" en todos los ejemplares de King Congo (Congo Point Noire x South African Ciskei; T.S.Co.) que he cultivado; y no era debido en mi caso a ningún estrés o restricción de raices, pues cultivo en tierra madre: simplemente, cuando las horas de luz diarias empiezan a disminuir (aunque haya más de 12 horas), la planta empieza a florecer, como si fuera una índica de zonas templadas: Mientras la mayoria de las sativas puras de larga floración no me empiezan a florecer hasta finales de Agosto o Septiembre, la K.C. siempre me empezaba a fin de Julio o inicio de Agosto...
Sin embargo, es una floración muy lenta, que no se acelera hasta el ritmo "normal" de floración hasta Septiembre, de forma que la planta no termina un mes antes que otra sativa pura "tradicional" con las mismas semanas de floración, sino acaso 2 semanas como mucho...

He oido y leido que algunos ejemplares de Zamal y Ciskei también pueden presentar esta característica.

 

[mudballs]

That's the way i feel 'semi-auto' can be defined...it is a photo period, but once it is triggered to flower for whatever reason it wont stop.

Así es como siento que se puede definir "semiautomático"... es un período fotográfico, pero una vez que se activa para florecer, por cualquier motivo, no se detiene.(traducida)

 

[Tranquilidade]

I think those are called "fast" versions when you do auto x photo

It's not auto x photo, it's semi auto x photo. I want to know if semi autos are recessive.

 

[mudballs]

It's not auto x photo, it's semi auto x photo. I want to know if semi autos are recessive.

I dont think so...i would call that a co-dominant trait...ur gonna see it very often in any cross. The punnet square output will be 16 variations but semi auto flowering is gonna pass in f1's, f2's, f3's...and just intesity or suppression will be involved in each pheno

 

[Tranquilidade]

In the context of autos, you don't find any autos in F1. I'm curious if the same applies to semi-autos. Can semi-auto traits be found in F2, or are they present in F1 as well?

 

[Old Piney]

I think it's a matter of further selection on this trait.

I crossed some so-called "semi auto's" with less light sensitive strains in an effort to make them more suitable (= earlier flowering) for an outdoor grow in the North.

But certainly not all the offspring is earlier, the trait does not carry on in all its offspring. So I guess more selection is needed.

So are you growing some of these out now and what were the two parents?

 

[Donald Mallard]

Personally i think its a term that is used for want of a better one ,
i mean a tropical plant auto flowering , why would it do that ??

answer , it wouldnt , there is no need , we all know where auto flower plants come from and why they do it ...

these plants have been seen before and previously we used the term "heavy preflower"
because under long hours those plants like zamal will never finish ,
they are still photo period plants ,
i think this new term simply confuses people and should be renamed ...