Seeds of Clone Only

[Guest]

Does it sound like a good idea if I do all of these methods and see what i get?

With all of this great input I just can't decide on a single method. space for numbers isnt that big of an issue...er wait..how big of numbers are we talking here? I have separate place for male selection.

 

[Guest]

Does it sound like a good idea if I do all of these methods and see what i get?

well when ya go thru all those methods, let me know what ya come up with, that is if im not dead and buried by that time.

With all of this great input I just can't decide on a single method. space for numbers isnt that big of an issue...er wait..how big of numbers are we talking here? I have separate place for male selection.

be true to yourself, think on it some, what do you think is a respectable number of plants per gen?

its very easy, the more plants, the greater genetic diversity retained in the line. small populations decrease the genetic diversity, and dependin on the lines used, bottleneckin the line can happen fairly quick.

not every single plant carries the genes of the entire line. each plant is a individual. small populations, and you loose alot of what the line is made up of.

ive taken one line 4gens, and many others ive made to 3 gens. all small populations, and untested males to this point(im to the point were im just lookin at how plants combine) im still learnin and had apirations of makin somethin outta some good grows ive had. ive done lots of crosses and you damn sure dont get what you think most times.

ive definitly learned what is workin and what isnt. imo most growers that give there opinions on what to do, havent made it past the first gen they never made, lol.

funny how many guys crankin out single crosses give themselves the Breeder title. what a farce. breedin MJ encompasses much more then most growers can comprehend.

take care and good luck

CBF

 

[Guest]

sbaegis what traits in your cut do you want to see in your resultin populations?

i can say from experience, that if your lookin to keep aroma and taste in the line from that clone, you should study up on quantative(sp) genetics. that should put a dampner on your breedin aspirations.

CBF

 

[Guest]

well when ya go thru all those methods, let me know what ya come up with, that is if im not dead and buried by that time.

Well hopefully not that long! How many decades would it take? for the longest method?

be true to yourself, think on it some, what do you think is a respectable number of plants per gen?

probably the most i can like you say, to broaden the selection.

ive definitley learned what is workin and what isnt. imo most growers that give there opinions on what to do, havent made it past the first gen they never made, lol.

I would really like to do things correctly. I've found I can learn well from this type of interaction with other growers, and appreciate it tons. I'll definitely want to put up results and methods used for critique and suggestion along the way, I hope you'll be around for that.

Since my buddies giving me a green light to work w/ his plant, windmills the one I really want to work with. I think that I would find a lot of really great things with that plant, so I'm really excited to try.

 

[Guest]

there are many ways to breed, lots of opinion, the best thing i could say to you is, take a male from a line that you really like and hit your clone, one on one. grow them beans and see what takes place.

to do it right, your gonna have to experiment, and see for yourself. nothin better then just doin the deed, and recordin your findings. readin is all well and good, and will give a good understandin, but OJT shows you much more then readin.

did i mention "Talent".....most anyone can ride a bike(make a cross) how many can grind a 40ft downhill rail(breed). a guy could breed to hes blue, but never develope anything worth a rip, just a no talent mofo, lol.

CBF

 

[Guest]

how would you define talent in breeding? is it like having good taste?

 

[Guest]

how would you define talent in breeding? is it like having good taste?

no anyone of us could tell a good female from a crappy one, same as a male. talent in breedin is knowin what way to go with plants. when to use aunts uncles, sisters, brothers, go back to a mother, or to the dad. how many generations to go back.

i hear tell theres a few "cough" breeders that can pick a male just lookin at um, lol.

Talent in breedin is no different then talent in marketin. 10 guys all trained and taught the same, theres the creme of the crop, guys that go on and become tops in there field, a bunch of mediocre guys that get by, and a few twits that the bulb never comes on for um.

bright, dim and dumb...

CBF

 

[Guest]

can you give me a scenario possibly of a situation where theres a plant project in progress and its time to go cross it back to the aunt or uncle or whichever, why cross it back to that particular one?

 

[Guest]

can you give me a scenario possibly of a situation where theres a plant project in progress and its time to go cross it back to the aunt or uncle or whichever, why cross it back to that particular one?

hehe, well ya have me there bro, my experience hasnt reached that level. thats what im talkin about, the shit hot guys, that have done large populations for select parents, that have taken the relative plants to many different generations and have observed there populations.

hell im just now growin the first BX i ever did, and prayin for the best outcome, talented guys already know how its gonna perform.

CBF

 

[Guest]

why cross it back to that particular one?

id imagine to reenforce certain traits from the best generational population(that a term, lol)

CBF

 

[blacklb937]

Im one to get by, I believe a breader is one of a kind. That breader puts together best of what he wants. Me iv been working for acouple years getting the hawians one hit wounder, together with a few quick finnishers. After a year of bringing out what i wanted in the gens,"a short,indica domin one hit wonder."

 

[blacklb937]

But the resone you have clone only strains.. someone before you has been breading for years.. they've put together there best... and wanted thouse exact gens to stay w the plant....so im excited imagine another 20 years of selective breading and crosses, If we can all put are heads together. If anyone can help me im looking for something that has no ceiling.. like some trips. but im tring to keep this lush bannan flavor.

 

[Guest]

mmmmm bananna!

 

[beancounter]

there's definately more than one way to skin this cat sbaegis..

I haven't actualy stabilized a clone myself or taken things many generations either. I above info in just the routes i'm gonna try first with Bubba.. I'll keep all orig parents so i can always go back to the begining, so if it doesn't work i can always start again, or just resort to STS..

Personaly, I'm using Bubba Kush and Deep Chunk. I have a profound love for Bubba, and her mostly indica ways, and Deep Chunk shares ALOT in common with her.

I'm only working with the 1st cross now in veg, so i'm a long ways off. But I just keep saving the most Bubba fems and males in clone as I find em, and go from there..

It is a long and difficult process to properly stabilize a line without bottle necking it, but with creative space usage, and bonsia clones/mums it's possible to do it over time..

I may end up scrapping it and trying something different, but i'll learn alot and that's worth something.. It also doesn't hurt that the bud will be dank tho

good luck, whatever you do.. cbf has alot of good advise as he's taken a few of his works a few gens.. he's seen the issues 1st hand that i haven't experienced yet..

 

[Guest]

cbf has alot of good advise as he's taken a few of his works a few gens.. he's seen the issues 1st hand that i haven't experienced yet..

yeah with dinky populations and unknown parents, lol.

and i can say you would be wastin your time makin seed of any worth in that fashion. think it was DJ that told me all i was doin is fuckin around.(maybe Vic)

im learnin from my mistakes as i go along. imo DJ was right, all ive done now for 2 years or more is fuck around. i have maybe one seedline that i may be able to do somethin with as im not that far along with it, and its still in good shape.

basically im at square one again, my plan is to grow all the F2s i made from the F1s i made, and find the absolute best male and female. use those parents to continually repro the line time and again. i believe i can at least accomplish that, LOL

CBF

 

[beancounter]

i hear ya bro.. The bottom line is I'm sure you've learned a ton, and are better for it..

what kinda population are you considering 'dinky'? a pack or 2? I supposed it depends on the original line's stability/diversity..


I definately agree with the last bit there about just reproducing the line that works, rather than trying (sometimes in futility) to work it further.. keep all original parents in clone, so that u can remake the seedline again. very important..



After thinking about it more sbaegis, I honestly think you'd be MUCH better off selfing your clone via STS.

This takes sooo much of the guess work outa yer situation.. You're not looking to create a true breeding retail line.. You're looking to get something in seed form that you yourself can grow, and still find females like the original clone, and maybe pass some out to friends..

for someone who's not interested in full time breeding, or having the 'perfect' true breeding line, STS is a great way to get the clone into seed form quickly and consistantly..


Of course, as seen with Bubba and OGK, some lines take better to Selfing than others, so you won't really know what u have till u grow some... But I can bet that those S1s will give u something close to the clone if u grow enough of the seed.. meaning, once u STS your clone, all you essentialy have to do is grow the numbers and u should come across something as good or better than the original..


embarking on this task, with different males, is gonna be a long and tedious process that after the more i thought about it, i wouldn't really recomend for your situation.. I honestly think you'll be much happier with some simple S1s..

For under $100 u can get all the ingredients you need for STS and then some.. u could probly source more than u need for much less.. that $100 is more than worth the extra time/space it'll take u to accomplish with true males..

I'm not a big fan of S1s in traditional breeding programs, but the results from S1s can be amazing, and easily worth trying/growing..

sorry about flip flopping on ya a bit, but after giving it more thought and listening to cbf's struggles i really think it's your best option..

Here's the recipe for mixing, all u need to do is procure the 2 dif chems.. search online or at photography stores..


Part A: .7 gram silver nitrate stirred into 40ml distilled water
Part B: 2.6 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 160 ml distilled water

Next, slowly add the silver nitrate solution to the sodium thiosulfate solution while stirring. This combination is then added to 800 ml of distilled water to equal 1 liter. This is your final stock solution. It is diluted 1:9 with more distilled water to make your final working solution, which then gets sprayed on your target plant.


good luck

 

[Guest]

Hmm, well since it would be as simple as that to get s1's, but I still have the space, time and desire to work the plant out the long way, I want to pursue both routes. The STS sounds good, I can find some nice clone only that way, but I also really would like to be able to consistantly reproduce the clone in seed form. That doesn't sound too crazy to me, no matter how much work it is, I really love this plant, I would love to see all that she can do.

 

[Guest]

m learnin from my mistakes as i go along. imo DJ was right, all ive done now for 2 years or more is fuck around. i have maybe one seedline that i may be able to do somethin with as im not that far along with it, and its still in good shape.

basically im at square one again, my plan is to grow all the F2s i made from the F1s i made, and find the absolute best male and female. use those parents to continually repro the line time and again.

Vic

Told me too, lol

Great posts in this thread! thanks for sharing the benefit of your experiences CBF. I would agree with everything you have said from my experiences.

Best, hhf

 

[Guest]

what kinda population are you considering 'dinky'? a pack or 2? I supposed it depends on the original line's stability/diversity..

largest population ive looked at was a 50 bean run, most have been 20 to 40 at a time. always goin with the 50/50 ratio and bein able to fit 25 females in flower. those numbers jam my OP up.

whenever i do a good sized run, i have to remove all moms and males from the veg spot as i dont have enough room.

if you just run 20 plants, you double that right off keepin cuts from the seedplants. 40 plants gives me the heebeegeebees,lol. so the numbers deal, restricts what i can do, to the point that IBL, or preservation is outta the question.

if ya had say 100 beans of a old skool rare landrace, are ya preservin the line with those 100 beans? imo no, your preservin that small amount of genes within that batch, not the entire genetic diversity of the original. thats not hard to fathom.

back before the war, there were many growin huge populations, breedin outdoors. most have moved indoors, where runnin big populations is limited. i dont think your gonna see the great lines from the 70s developed anymore just due to that fact.

i had my own ideas, one of those was that runnin big numbers to create anything was BS, every plant in a line should have all the genes of the line, and at some point display um. due to combination some plants wouldnt display um, recessive and such. in my mind i debunked that theory on my own. each plant is a individual and does not carry the entire genome of a given line. very easy to loose a trait you were actually breedin for.

what im referin to is filial gens, growin continuein generations. takin a IBL, a grower could muck it up very easy, just use some untested males, and the next gen will not be representative of what you started with, or you can get lucky. and if your not usin big numbers your droppin genes as you go along, like a sick dog with the shits, LOL. every gen you lose somethin.

if you took the time to test and find a few good males and females of that IBL, do you feel you are actually truely reproducin that line in the form you recieved it? i dont believe so.

anyway, real professional breedin is not whats taken place with most seed makers/breeders, steppin back and really thinkin about what your doin, and bein true to your self, most will realize there just fuckin around.

take care all
CBF

 

[Guest]

It's sounding like a really discouraging course....is that everyones opinion? I think I have every bit of potential for a proper breeding project, as does anyone else.

Im just wondering what you consider real professional breeding, and why can't someone like me or you or him or her, achieve that?

Or am I completely missing what's trying to be said?? Please bear with me if I seem thick headed.