Seeds of Clone Only

[Guest]

I have a clone only of which I would like to create seeds. I am posting this to see if anyone can point me in the right direction. Am I looking at an IBL project, or another method. I know next to nothing, and it shows, but I'd really love to learn, anyone with a spare minute, please drop a line.

 

[SEEDYNONO]

biggest problem with clone only is its only a female..

easiest thing is to find a nice strong male plant of whatever breed.. and pollenate the clone only with it and you'll have a hybrid with its genes in it.

to make an ibl of the actual clone only pheno you have to stress the plant into throwing its own pollen.. making its own seeds.. which you would have to grow out.. and try to find a completely male representation from these. then take that male's pollen and throw it back on the c/o girl and you'll have it in seed form.

of course to get it to a true ibl it would take a few generations of growing, testing, selecting, growing more, testing more, selecting more.. until finally you'd have an in bred line.

 

[Guest]

You can self the plant using a number of methods including: chemicals, flowering too long, light stress, etc. Some are better than others - Soma flowers them until they pollinate themselves.

OR you can find a damn good male of some similar strain - pollinate her, then backcross her selectively for 4 or 5 generations. This will probably result in the best plants.

Either way, you are looking at a lot of time and effort. But to preserve a sacred female - it is worth it.

I am no expert, but an amatuer trying to learn myself. Study the breeders threads, get a few good books. Keep us posted on your work.

God Speed!

 

[Ganico]

Maybe make some feminized beans with a clone, then pollenate it to a clone of the same stock. Then just increase the conditions for males? Things like high temps, more K than N,etc
And then just run a lot of numbers until you find the eventual male


I'm sure it sounds a lot easier on paper though

 

[Guest]

awesome thanks so much for responding

about Soma's method, does he do that to find a male and then pollenate with that? or does he use the seeds that came from self pollenation as the end product?

so what I would like to do, ideally, is have 2 parents with which to make a stable variety from, right? Or is selfing reliable enough to produce a stable end product?

 

[Guest]

awesome thanks so much for responding

about Soma's method, does he do that to find a male and then pollenate with that? or does he use the seeds that came from self pollenation as the end product?

so what I would like to do, ideally, is have 2 parents with which to make a stable variety from, right? Or is selfing reliable enough to produce a stable end product?

I read in Soma's book he does that to create FEMALE seeds. If you self the SAME plant - you will have all-female seeds. Since the stress is not light stress, the resultant seeds are said to have less chance of carrying hermaphroditism. After testing - you as the breeder have to determine their value...

This is my understanding of how to create males - IF you let the plant pollinate a clone of itself - this has the tendency to produce males as you are not "selfing" it, but are pollinating a different plant...

Someone please correct me if I am a retard.

 

[Guest]

so wait lemme see if i have this right. If i flower them for too long and they breed with themselves, creating female seeds, would they be as good as the original mother? or close? female seeds would be ideal right? oh i missed where you said id have to test afterwards. well shoot i better get crackin on the new bloom room

 

[Guest]

so wait lemme see if i have this right. If i flower them for too long and they breed with themselves, creating female seeds, would they be as good as the original mother? or close? female seeds would be ideal right? oh i missed where you said id have to test afterwards. well shoot i better get crackin on the new bloom room

Keeping in mind what I said. If you put ONE plant into a bloom chamber BY ITSELF for too long, it will throw male flowers and pollinate itself creating female seeds. These offspring carry a greater potential to herm, yes, but it is said that it is lessened by the type of stress. If you F with the light cycles, you are guaranteed to get more hermaph offspring. You will need to test, most definitely.

The best advice so far I think would be to find a similar male and create hybridized offspring then backcross... MVHO.

 

[kush07]

You could always try and stabilize the clone you want by backcrossing it with a male plant you like very much. Here is how Cinderella 99 was made and it also gives the method for backcrossing.


Cinderella Story...

I've been seeing a lot of posts from people asking for the "Cinderella Story", so here it is:
In 1997, I (MrSoul) discovered a few seeds in a bud of Jack Herer I bought @ "Sensi Smile" coffeeshop in Amsterdam while there to buy seeds. I didn't expect much when I grew them, but one of those seeds from the JH bud produced a very special female that I call "Princess".

Therefore Princess' mother was a Jack Herer (IF we can believe what Sensi Smile printed on the package) and her father is a totally unidentified mystery plant.

I also got 2 more females (Genius & Cafe'Girl) & several males from those seeds. I used pollen from one of the males on a heavy-yielding, dense, resinous ShivaSkunk (from Sensi Seedbank) female, then grew the resulting seeds to get males to produce pollen to cross Princess with, beginning the cubing process.

The first generation of seeds from Princess were called P.50 because they were 50% Princess. I used males from the P.50 generation to back-cross to Princess to get P.75 and again back-crossed with the P.75 pollen to get P.88 and again with the P.88 pollen to get P.94 which is "Cinderella 99", a cubed version of Princess.

The name "Cinderella" was chosen because of the parallels between this story and the well-known fairy tale in which Cinderella becomes a Princess despite her humble beginning.

MrSoul

"Princess is a female which resulted from a seed found in a Jack Herer bud I bought in Amsterdam near the Sensi Seed Bank at "Coffeeshop Sensi Smile". The bud came in a 2 gr. cello-pack with the Sensi logo; I expected sinsemilla, but it had about 10 seeds so I assume she's an F2 JH. Her characteristics were so fine I wanted to create seeds that would "replicate" this plant. She has the KILLER Haze-influenced high with the most DELICIOUS pineapple/evil scent, 50 day maturation in 12/12, and incredible resin production, doesn't stretch - yet clearly Sativa-dominant! Last but not least: Never a hint of hermaphrodism after 2 years of cloning & many different styles of grow.

I wanted to "cube" Princess but add a little beef to her branches because the buds were always too heavy at harvest and branches needed staking to keep from flopping over. I crossed my ShivaSkunk female with one of the males from the same group of seeds that Princess came from. THIS cross produced a male which was then crossed to Princess, creating "P.50" (using a shorthand notation I developed to indicate the fraction of Princess genes in the cross).
Each generation is the result of crossing a male from the previous generation to Princess herself (incestuous, I know).
Blow-by-blow description of the generations:
P.50 = Heavy, single-cola type plants with mellow high (too much influence from the ShivaSkunk) Sweet fruity scent/flavor. Unstable in most traits - for example, 10 days difference in fastest/slowest maturation period in a group of 20 seedlings.
P.75 = Plants leaning MUCH more in the direction of Princess in floral cluster and bud structure, scent/flavor turned more "tropical" like pineapple. The stability was becoming better - two major phenotypes; short & dense (potent too) or tall/HUGE (Not so potent).
P.88 = Renamed Cinderella 88 when first released on the market. It grows fast and produces excellent yields of FROSTY buds in 7 weeks! Generally uniform seedlings with minor differences in floral formation and some height variance, but the smoke is quite consistent from all plants - Dense, heavy nuggets of fruity scented & flavored (like wild berries) and covered in resin glands, the dried buds have distinctly ORANGE pistils.
And now P.94 = Cinderella 99. This project has been a huge success. The strain has been embraced by the "net"work of growers with rave reviews.

"I personally think the plants these Cinderella 99 seeds produce are every bit as good as a cutting from Princess herself (or better).
I say better because the flavor of no two plants is "identical"; there's a personality to all living things. Like Princess herself, Cinderella is sweet & fruity to the palette and nose, and when you take a hit you're BLASTED...with the same "racy" high as Princess!
The improvement comes in the yield department; 25% greater yield and a stronger branch structure, which I accomplished by starting with some ShivaSkunk genes in the original father in the cubing process.
I knew I'd blend out the majority of the traits from ShivaSkunk in the cubing process, but I was hoping to incorporate the ShivaSkunk's stronger branches because Princess had a tendency to need supports in the final two weeks of flowering. As it turns out, I got lucky and it worked.
The name suits the strain IMO - it's a true Cinderella Story." - MrSoul





"Jack Herer is an unstable strain bred from an unequal combination of Sk#1, NL#5, and Haze. Crossing a male and female Jack Herer creates an F2 generation which has a HUGE number of possible recombinations of the genes. I grew out some Jack Herer F2s and discovered a SPECIAL one, "Princess", which has many improvements on the original JH such as a shorter flowering time, denser bud structure and pineapple scent/flavour. I have been continually back crossing Princess with her male offspring (generation after generation) which eventually creates a stabilized strain having her special characteristics found reliably in most females grown from those seeds. Each generation is composed of a 50% genetic contribution from Princess (since she's the seed parent) and a 50% contribution from the pollen parent (which also has an increasing percentage of Princess' genetics with each generation). The progression goes: P.50, P.75, P.88, P.94, and P.97...at that point it's considered stabilized (a male and female P.97 can be crossed and the offspring are essentially the same as the parents). I have been VERY pleased with the way this project is going; even the P.75 generation was rather stable in the sense that the individuals were all rather uniform and HIGH quality. ...So, you see, since I have combined genes from Sk#1, NL#5, and Haze, creating a plant which has characteristics distinctly different than Jack Herer, and I'm creating a stable strain from this plant... it's legitimately MY work." - MrSoul


"Each generation exhibited a MAJOR jump in potency (P.50 was rather mellow)...P.75 has a well-balanced body/mind high with a citrus flavour, Cinderella 88 is cerebral & paralyzing with a tropical fruit flavour, and Cinderella 99 is "TRIP WEED"...with more of the fruity flavour and speedy effect from Princess." - MrSoul


"...Princess smells very much like pineapple both during flowering and when dried, but there's this "evil" scent in it too, like rotting meat, which has been linked with the most devastating weed (notably the Durban/Thai hybrid from SSSC, years ago). The taste is connoisseur quality when it's cured; VERY fruity. The high is almost too intense for a lot of people; Dr. Atomic actually refused to smoke any on our second meeting, after getting rather "hazed and confused" on the first sampling we did together a couple of weeks before, so he decided to try Shiva Skunk and found that more mellow and to his liking. Two hits of Princess will induce your body to tremble involuntarily and your heart to race and paranoid thoughts... very much like Haze, but not quite as intense. It also has a "creeper" quality that makes it easy to over-indulge...you get progressively higher during the first 10 minutes after smoking. Look at the May '98 issue of High Times' centerfold and find "Yellow Cab"...that's EXACTLY what the finished Princess buds look like. The "frosting" of stalked, capitate trichomes on the flowers and smaller leaves gives them a "furry" appearance much like Haze."
MrSoul


"I'd personally advise you to "top" the C-99's at their 4th branch set (about 3-4 weeks old) then when the branches grow to be about a foot long (about 6-8 weeks old) you should flower them. You'll know which plants are female BEFORE you ever switch the light cycle to 12/12. Cinderella plants always show preflowers at the 5-7 branch sets during the VEGETATIVE stage... when they're a little over a month old. Mr Soul "

(MrSoul is probably most famous for originating "Cinderella 99" aka "Cindy 99")


[as related in an internet post by "MrSoul", June 2000]


"...Bros Grimm have been employing a method called "Cubing a Clone" to create strains from unique female plants for years now.

Read the following and you'll understand:

Cubing a clone is a way to create a unique seedline (a “strain”) modelled after a currently existing female individual.

The goal is to create seeds from which the females replicate the phenotype of the original female.

Obviously the chosen female should be an outstanding specimen.

Procedure:
CONTINUOUSLY KEEP A MOTHER IN THE VEGETATIVE STATE TO PROVIDE CLONES

1. Pollinate a flowering clone of the original female with the pollen of a related male, preferably her father or a brother. The resulting seeds contain 1/2 the original female's genes and 1/2 those of the male. An unrelated male won’t have the Y-chromosome of the chosen female’s family & therefore any Y-linked traits of the family will always be missing in the seedline.

2. Grow the above seeds & flower them. Collect an equal quantity of pollen from each selected male and mix it together.

3. Pollinate a flowering clone of the original female with the above pollen. These seeds contain 1/2 the original female’s genes plus 1/4 more because the male used was 1/2 her genetics too. I call this generation “.75” to capture the idea that it’s 3/4 of the original female’s genetics.

4. Grow the above seeds & flower them. Collect an equal quantity of pollen from each selected male and mix it together.

5. Pollinate a flowering clone of the original female with the above pollen. These seeds contain 7/8 the original genes (1/2+3/8), the ".88" generation.

6. Grow the above seeds & flower them.
Collect an equal quantity of pollen from each selected male and mix it together.

7. Pollinate a flowering clone of the original female with the above pollen. These seeds contain 15/16 the original genes (1/2+7/16), the ".94" generation.

Theoretically, this will be a stable, true-breeding seedline from which all females are replicas of the original. "

December,1999, internet post by MrSoul]

"...
Apollo 13 = Genius/ P75 and is very popular despite my only having created about 500 seeds.

Apollo 11 = Genius/ C99....[*]

Note both have the SAME mother -
"Genius" which is a sister of Princess, although you'd hardly see a family resemblance.

Genius is lemon-scented, rather like Lemon Pledge furniture polish actually.
Her high is not speedy like Princess', it's a "happy high".
As a plant, Genius is a pleasure to flower, producing heavier yields than Princess with similarly resinous floral clusters shaped less like Princess' "braids" and more like a dense cone of sparkling, tightly-packed calyxes & pistils bursting out from between little leaves bristling with stalked glands.
Very sticky and pungent smelling. She matures rapidly, finishing in 7 weeks and when the buds are manicured (very easy) and dried, Genius' final product is true "eye candy" to behold.

The father plant used in Apollo 13 was the same as was used to create Cinderella 88.

The father plant used to create Apollo 11 was the same as was used to make the current generation of C99, i.e., P94. [wayback in December of 1999 when written by Soul]

(*)This (Genius) male was responsible for adding considerable yield to the current Cinderella 99, i.e., P97 generation..."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMB Note,
"Vic High" once offered the suggestion to Soul to pollinate individual branches with individuals pollen to test males, a method which soul eventually evolved to (?) instead of his original "shake and bake" method of male selection...
A little luck never hurt a damn thing, a lot of luck can be a beautiful thing, especially in Las Vegas when rolling dice and also apparently when breeding seeds...

well regardless of his breeding methodologies, the bottom line is he certainly got some big time positive results, it worked for him.
The "Brothers Grimm" cannabis strains will not soon be forgotten, thats for sure.
As Granny used to say "The proof of the pudding is in eating it".
That means that the true value or quality of something can only be judged when it's put to use and tried and tested.


Happy Toking

 

[SEEDYNONO]

gotta love solid breeding work.

 

[Guest]

I think it would be best to just let her overripen and pollenate itself. Gotta love the mechanisms of evolution. Isn't it great how plants have evolved to sex themelves if they can't be sexed by another plant....basic need to keep the weed alive.....gotta love it.

 

[Neptune]

5 steps to S1

1) bloom your girl for 14+ weeks, or until male flowers appear and begin to drop pollen.
2) collect male flowers(with pollen) in a bag, put them in freezer
3) flower more clones of said wonder strain
4) polinate them with freezer bag pollen around week 3, apply pollen with paintbrush
5) collect seed.... S1
*edit*
6) ...PROFIT!!!!!

Bubbakush S1, Trainwreck S1, Blackberry S1, all done this way.
Clone only in seed form, plants will have many similarities, but will not be exactly the same..

 

[Elevator Man]

I guess the trickiest part of this equation is deciding (if it is only a clone) what strain to use as the first outcross to get your males - ideally it needs to match closely, but if not, I would have thought it should have at least the features missing in the female.
I'm using Flo males for my first breeding projects, as they have very desirable traits for what I need - and at least if I use the same ones across the board, I'll be able to hopefully identify the same trait-changes in different female varities. Fascinating stuff...

 

[Guest423]

go to rez's forum and look how he created sour d ibl

 

[Guest]

go to rez's forum and look how he created sour d ibl

Equally good advice. Rez does seem to be "The Man". I am f-in proud to have snagged some of his genetics! Strawberry Diesel!

 

[Guest]

ok, lots of info to soak up *printing*. Ill check out rez' forum and see what I can gather there. I really want to do this correctly. Maybe I should make a thread, to share the process and help me get it right? Now, I was thinking, could I possibly make something better than the original fem clone, with the right male? I was thinking I would like to make a faster finishing time, or atleast a version of the original mom with a faster finish. I have trouble trying to come up with traits Id like to add to it.

 

[Guest423]

here you go...here is an example of some massive breeding and hard work done by rez....many would agree he replicated the ecsd clone in seed form....i've heard some say it's even better because of equal power/taste/smell but added vigor....so maybe it could be possible for you to make your version better then the cut? never know.....but this should give you an idea if you want to take it this route.

Let's Get It Straight,Definitive Breeding Info About Sour Diesel IBL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


. . . .

I recently read at another site,someone posted that the Sour Diesel IBL is a 4th BX,or 'cube'.
That is 100% untrue.

And also that Sour Diesel V3 was a 3rd backcross.
Also,100% incorrect.

Here it goes,as many of the recipes as I'll ever post:

THE SOUR DIESEL PROJECTS:

1-Sour Diesel Clone x (soma's) NYCD = Double Sour Diesel (DSD)

2-DSD x DSD = DSDv2 (DSD was never released,only DSDv2)

3-Sour Diesel Clone x DSD = Sour Diesel BX 1.5

4-SD BX 1.5 selectively incrossed = Petrol

5-Sour Diesel Clone x SD BX 1.5 = Sour Diesel BX 2.5

6-Sour Diesel Clone x SD IBL = Omega Diesel (Very Limited Release)

7- SD BX 1.5 selectively incrossed = Sour Diesel V3* (Not a BX!)

8-Project SD1 (selective inbreeding) <not released>
9-Project SD2 (selective inbreeding) <not released>
10-Project SD3 (selective inbreeding) <not released>
11-Project SD4 (selective inbreeding) <not released>

12- X x X = Sour Diesel IBL* (Not a BX!)



*Proprietary formula

 

[GirlWonderGrows]

Does anyone have a link to Rez talking about doing the SD IBL breeding? I'm a bit lost over there, so many "damn rez you rule" posts its hard to find rez's own info. But thats great, rez is doing some really good work and deserves praise.
Thanks rez.

 

[beancounter]

sbaegis...

IMHO, i would go only 1 of 2 routes...

1) STS (the best/safest chemical selfing avaliable, fairly easy to procur and make yerself)

2) find a very similar seed strain and find a good male to use.. then inbreed a few gens till u get some decent stability (alot of clone only phenos in population), maybe taking it to F4-F5.. then backcross once (read chimera's thoughts on BXing) to yer clone.. test out the progeny, and do further inbreeding if necessary. Or, if you can't find anything similar, try to find a strain that is an exact polar opposite of the clone (ie, if it's pure indica use pure sativa).. inbreed the line once (F2) and grow out large numbers (as many as u possibly can) and instantly cull any sativa leaning plants..

Using polar opposites will make selection somewhat easier, allowing u to cull unwanted phenos long before flowering..



IMHO, soma's 'feminized' method is questionable at best.. and a different animal compared to chemical selfing.. If you are ever gonna self anything, i don't recomend relying on enviromental stress, or long flowering nanners.. IMHO that's no different than bagseed..

properly selfed plants will be much less prone to herms, and seem to be more inclined to give you proper non-herming males, which can be great breeding stock in some conditions.. (altho the it's missing true male genes and the detriments are mostly uknown from using S1 males, if there are any)..

generally, it's better to use true fems/males in any breeding project, but properly made S1s can be amazing..

good luck..

PS, it would help if you would let us know which clone you want to get into seed form.. We can recomend potential strains for sourcing males..

 

[Guest]

dont bother with filial generations if your workin with small populations, especially if your cut isnt derived from a well worked line.

filial generations are well beyond the scope of the avg indoor grower. the numbers and testin required to properly do a filial gen, takes lots of time and space, that cant be dupped in a room or cab. ( you could do batches with numbers to fit your OP, and keep the best of each batch to breed later on as you go thru the numbers, TIME)

imo id find a male(from whatever line) thats compatible with your cut, that throws a population your interested in. so your first priority would be to gather a few nice males(outcrossed, incrossed and tested) to use. then grow out the test crosses of each male against a single cut of the target clone.

which ever fits your ideal population, keep that male and you can continually produce the same seedline time and again.

bangin two plants together, your makin seed, makin somethin of the cross is breedin. lots of seedmakers about, very few breeders.

CBF