Seedling worries

[Bones]

Ok, took some quick pics, now they're a bit bigger you can see the detail a lot better. Having second thoughts about transplanting today - i think i might wait a few days

Anyways, group shot 2 weeks from germ. You can see they've got quite varying degrees of health/progress




This one has "blotches"?



This one has gone a bit yellow, I wouldn't have thought she'd need any nutes yet cuz the soil has light nutrients?




Lastly the greenest fastest grower, but has the worst twisting/wavy leaves




All the plants are showing some twisting/wavy leaves, and the tips of the lowest leaves feel kinda dry to the touch and look a bit dark and scaley. . The ph of the runnoff is 6.3ish, but that was a couple of days ago and i dont really want to go giving them more water to test again yet!

Any help/ideas would be great, i not really sure if all these symptoms are down to one problem or if they've all got different problems?? I keep checkin the ph of my water and im giving it in at 6.0 now - when the problems started i dropped it from 6.5.
Thanks

Bones

 

[sproutco]

Try giving them a weak dose of ferts that contains all the micros:iron, zinc, copper, boron, molybdenum, and manganese. Continue adjusting ph.

 

[Bones]

Thanks sprout, I'll give them some 1/4 strength formulex tomorrow, and transplant them when they've recovered a bit. I'll post more pics if they get any better/worse.

Thanks again, (nice pic, lol)

Bones

 

[I.M. Boggled]

Here is an excellent guide that one may wish to give a look-see too when minor "infirmary" issues "crop up" unexpectedly in the future.
The search function here can also be a very convenient information asset also.

The Complete guide to Sick Plants, pH, and Pest troubles!
by "MynameStitch"
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

 

[Bones]

Thanks boggled - i've got that one bookmarked AND printed out (wicked thread) - things seem to point to ph troubles but my runnoff ph seems fine, maybe my waters no good - i've been using water from a "bacteriostatic water treatment unit" that is under the sink. I don't know how old this unit is or if it needs replacing cuz it was here when i moved in a few weeks ago. I guess an ec meter's got to be my next buy!

I was thinking bout using rainwater from my water butt, but it looks a bit green and when i test it it's REALLY acidic?? would this be because i live in the city? And is it still better than tap water or water from the treatment unit?

Thanks,

Bones

 

[Bones]

ok - now I can get to the Bottom of this

ok - now I can get to the Bottom of this

Wicked, my EC meter arrived today
I'm gonna test my runoff EC in a minute as per sprout's method (I dont have any filters so im gonna have to do the pourthrough method), They're still not doing so well and i'm not sure if it's a deficiency or toxicity, so i can now find out, hooray

I'll b back soon with pics n' hopefully an idea of the problem

 

[sproutco]

They just need ferts. Your ec will be very low.

 

[Bones]

What the F***'s goin on

What the F***'s goin on

Man, this is crazy - I just tested the worst one with the pourthrough method and it said EC 3.2

I guess I should do some hardcore flushing, or is my meter wrong???

I added 1/4 strength formulex three days ago and repotted them into bigger pots and put them under a 400w two days ago.

Pics
This one seems healthiest, got some twisting tho





This one has yellowing on the bottom leaves and a few rusty spots







This one has worse yellowing and the tip of the bottom leaf is dry and looks a bit burnt






Should I flush????

 

[Bones]

Or have I messed up with the testing?? The E.C. of the water going in was below 0.4, I poured two cups to get enough water out of the drainage holes to test, then tested to the instruction manual. I cant see how it could possibly be this high

 

[sproutco]

3 to 5 ec is concerned normal using the pour through. No need to flush. The seedlings look ok. Be careful not to overwater.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

^^^^^^
Was gonna say that first pic looks like a classic overwatered plant.

 

[Bones]

Thanks sprout, do you know why the ec is higher using the pourthrough method?? I thought the meter was broken at first - much relief!!!
Would I get a normal reading using the coffee filter method?
It's grow time - I'll leave them till the soil's dried out and the pots are light, then i'll give them some 1/4 strength ferts - Thanks for all the help everyone, I'll post some pics in a few days and let you see how they're getting on.

Thanks again

Bones

 

[sproutco]

Those twisted or wavy leaves are probably a sign your not letting the soil dry out enough. Really water/fert till it pours out the bottom then let them get really dry.

 

[Bones]

Sooooooo confused

Sooooooo confused

Thanks sprout, I've just tested the ec of one of the pots using the coffee filter method - It came out as 1.6!!

This is much higher than i thought it would be, and i've heard that the widow is quite sensitive to nutes. Any ideas as to what to do next??
Im waiting for the soil to get nice and dry before I water again (it'll be a couple of days yet), and I'm not sure whether I should be adding ferts or not???

I know you've said from the start that they needed food, but with that EC is it such a good idea??

Any ideas/suggestions would be brilliant - i'm completely stuck with what to do and don't want to mess this up

Thanks

Bones

 

[sproutco]

How exactly did you test to get 1.6 ec? If you do not follow the directions exactly, your results could be way off. They look ok. If your fert does not contain calcium and magnesium, you might should add that with your next application of ferts. 1/4 teaspoon of both powdered gypsum + epsom salts per gallon of water along with your regular npk + micros. Its good to do this every third fert even with dolomite lime in the soil. You should do this everytime if no lime or supplies are low in the mix. Be sure to adjust your fert water ph to about 6 after mixing using an acid or base. This prevents ph surprises...

 

[Bones]

I mixed one part soil with two parts water, stirred well, left to stand for about 20 mins, then filtered through a coffee filter and tested according to my Ec truncheon instructions.

I haven't added any lime, and i don't think there was any in the mix when I bought it (im having trouble finding out exactly what is in the mix). There's not much info on the bag and it doesn't say anything about lime so I presume there's none.

The ferts I have are Canna Bio vega, NPK 3.5-1.0-5.5, the bottle says it also contains magnesium, sulphur and trace elements but no ratio's printed for these.

I also have Formulex which has (%w/v)

Nitrate nitrogen - 1.72
Ammonium Nitrogen - 0.08
Total Nitrogen - 1.80
Phosphorus - 0.21
Potassium - 1.95
Calcium - 1.10
Magnesium - 0.24
Iron - 0.05
Manganese - 0.01
Boron - 0.003
Molybdenum - 0.0005
Zinc - 0.002
Cobalt - 0.001
Nickel - 0.001

I have epsom salts but no gypsum

Do these Ferts contain enough mag, or should I use epsom salts too??

So far they've only had one dose of 1/4 strength formulex, and the plagron lightmix im using says it has small amounts of ferts added.

My water is ph'd to 6 - 6.3 every time with ph down (about 1ml per 5 litres).

Thanks a lot

Bones

 

[sproutco]

Potassium - 1.95
Calcium - 1.10
Magnesium - 0.24

You want a ratio of about 4 parts potassium to 2 parts calcium to 1 part magnesium. If you get too far away from this, you will get a deficiency. Example: you got 50 ppm magnesium...you would also have 100 calcium and 200 potassium. The ratio of this fert is 8.12 : 4.58 : 1 potassium to calcium to magnesium. You need more magnesium to make it 4:2:1. 1/8 teaspoon epsom salts per gallon of water (3.8L) adds 15 ppm magnesium.

Located in my signature below is a link for a ppm calculator. Enter net weight of the bottle, total ml, ml your using per gallon, and % of each element like 3% magnesium. It will give you your answer in ppms of each element. If you don't know the type of nitrogen but have a total %, enter it once into either nitrate, urea, or ammonia but only enter it once. The answer comes out the same. Here is an example. Click on it to make it larger. Put cursor in bottom right corner when larger to make even bigger and clearer.



You may find this info on the bottle. If k2o multiply by .83 and if p2o5 multiply by .43 to get true p and k. The calculator does this for you.

Now that you got your numbers in ppms, you can make good judgements about adding things. You will know how strong to add magnesium. You should be applying 100 ppm nitrogen to seedlings this size. 75 ppm starting out and 150 ppm once they get a little larger. Of course the ferts have more than just n.

If your seedlings ec is high, your not watering heavy enough. Apply fert water till 20% of what you apply pours from the bottom of the container.

Get ph closer to 6 after mixing the fert water.

When you transplant, use as little dolomite lime as possible because this would add cal mag that is already in the water ferts. See how to make a soilless mix in my signature below.

I used 4:1 calcium to magnesium on my tomato plant this summer. I got a magnesium deficiency. This fert is 4.58:1 calcium to magnesium. Needs to be closer to 2:1 I wonder if your yellowing bottom leaves is the start of magnesium deficiency?

 

[Bones]

Cool - Thanks sprout,

It looks like the formulex mag:cal:K is 1:4.5:6.7 (ppm 12-55-81)
So i guess I need to add 15ppm mag, and 29 ppm K to achieve 1:2:4 ratio??

Do you know what I can use as a source of K to get this balance right? I already have epsom salts so I'll use 1/8 teaspoon, dissolved in a little hot water then added to my water, is this the right way to do it?

Also should I wait a few days for the soil to dry out (it's pretty damn wet), or add adjusted ferts now to solve the problem before it gets worse (or would this push my ec too high)?

Thanks for all your help, it's GREATLY appreciated

Bones

 

[sproutco]

Stump remover is high in k its potassium nitrate 13-0-44. 1/8 teaspoon per gallon adds 67 k. Grants, high yield, and dexol are some brands but there may be others. Check the label. You may find this somewhere like lowes or homedepot. This also adds 24 n. Not really much. Also, 1/8 teaspoon powdered gypsum per gallon adds 30 calcium if you need that.

The answer looks like you should add 1/8 teaspoon potassium nitrate to 2 gallons of water + 1/8 teaspoon epsom salts per 1 gallon of water.

There is an expression...wet is wet. If the soil is wet, go ahead and add the new ferts with the extra mag. If its wet already, watering again does not change anything. PH adjust fert water. Quite a bit should flow from the bottom of the container. Let get really dry after this.



Remember that when you repot, if you add dolomite lime to the soil, you would reduce your calcium and magnesium in your water. You may then add more k to get 3:1 potassium to calcium or more. You have to guess.

 

[Bones]

Nice one sprout, you are truly a legend!!

I'll be back with (hopefully healthy) pics in a day or two.

Thanks again

Bones