Seedling Problem, Yellowing and Twisting of Leaves

[SweetIndica2]

Bonecarver- thanks for the Karma bro, i'll hit you back for helping me. I have heard that cold temps do increase resin production and potency like you said, is this true with all strains? Plants are more resillient when they are older right? I have heard that cold temps are fine in flowering, and do produce aweseme tight resiny buds in flowering. I have even heard of people having no problems with flowering plants in temps as low as 50, which is crazy. How low should they be during flowering? I would like to take out the heater if possible shortly into flowering, so i'll use less power and get as much resin production as possible, plus cold temps make lower humidity which is also good for flowering. I just don't want the temps to go too low.

 

[420guy]

hey sweetindica2...don't get your panties all in a bunch bro...if ya didn't want different forms of replies than don't fuckin post on an internet forum...if ya go back and read my post, i was as nice and polite as can be...ya don't have to TAKE my advice, but don't be a prick if ya don't like all of the replies ya read...at one point i DID grow under the hid early on, but IN MY CASE, i noticed better growth rate with my floros...hope the grow goes smoothly...

 

[SweetIndica2]

420guy- I wouldn't have made a comment if your post actually helped me bro. Humidity has NOTHING to do with the problems in my grow right now, i knew that before i even posted this thread. Not anything personal, just stating that your information is wrong. Your comment on the fluro's also didn't help me as your not going to find fluros for $20-$30 that will properly veg 16-20 plants, t5's are the only ones i can think of and they are $150+. I doubt you noticed "better growth rate", sure hps do provide a spectrum that isn't as good for vegging, but it doesn't slow down growth any, especially considering i'm using a hortilux, i know plenty of people using just hps's for vegging, even without an enhanced spectrum bulb. The only difference i've noticed was a little more stretch when using an hps for vegging. Once again, nothing personal...i'm just stating a point. Take it how you want...

 

[bonecarver_OG]

bonecarver- oh, so your fluros aren't using 600w's? I know fluros are rated in equivalency to incandescent bulbs, but they still also give you the actual watt usage. If they only equivalent to 600w's of incandescents, then that still wouldn't be enough for me to veg the number of plants i need for even a few weeks.

a small miss understanding - wattage is the energy used by the light/ballast and tube/bulb to create light - and - and lumens is the strength of the light at a certain distance.

those new 250W fluoros seem awesome. when they get here ill definetly try to give them a go for the moms etc.


-- ok here comes the post after i did some research - man i love the net---

i know i get messy explaining sometimes - please just ask and ill see if i can explain or not

one tube of 58 W (wich i use - its not 65w as i remmebred wrong - sorry)- gives about 4000 lumens a tube. 10 of them and u have sun light intensity thats around 40 000 lumens:

my veg space is 1,5m x o,5m - 0,75 square meters with really more than 30 000 lumens on that area.

all know 10 000 lumens per square meter is more than enough for weed to grow very well the flowering i dont know about at all with fluoro - never tried - it. but some ppl get good results with that even. many comercial flower growers flower some strains with just fluoros for getting better colour and such. check out info on growing african violets if u get bored ever hehe

i found an intersting article - and even i lernt something new :

http://www.granitehydro.com/old/learnxx/light.html

ts clear the HPS are the absolutely best for growing buds... and fluoros are really good for veg moms and clones

ill try to stop boring ya dude i got too much time on my hands recuperating from surgery

peace

 

[bonecarver_OG]

Bonecarver- thanks for the Karma bro, i'll hit you back for helping me. I have heard that cold temps do increase resin production and potency like you said, is this true with all strains? Plants are more resillient when they are older right? I have heard that cold temps are fine in flowering, and do produce aweseme tight resiny buds in flowering. I have even heard of people having no problems with flowering plants in temps as low as 50, which is crazy. How low should they be during flowering? I would like to take out the heater if possible shortly into flowering, so i'll use less power and get as much resin production as possible, plus cold temps make lower humidity which is also good for flowering. I just don't want the temps to go too low.

for vegging and most part of flowring its definelty better to try to keep it the temps etc - and just start dropping the temps the last week.

i cant really say since we have been groweing in green houses in coco here in winter (goes down to frost for about one hour at night untill nov jan when we cut them) and the buds sure were small - but the drysieve surprised us so much - it left us breathless without talking for hours. od and interesting. didnt get a lot of dry sieve but it looks nice and it was stronger i high in a diffrent way to any other pf same pheno - or even the normal buds - also we le the go well mature.



for heating i prefeer the horticulture heating mats - since they use so little electricity and only heat the area necesary - the roots - to about 18 degrees or such. for my clones i use a therapeutical heating mat - works so well

warm temps - means there is water locked in the air - like when u got lights on - when lights go of - the air temp fall - and the possibility of air to carry humidity goes down - it starts to condensate on the walls etc. can lead to mould. i had that prob ages ago - had to go wiping the walls with towels to get rid of excess h20.

peace














buds grow in summer looked like this -

 

[fjällhöga]

Just use a 250 watt MH for starting seeds, i do it this way for over 6 years now and i´ll never want to look back ....

+ be very carefull no to overwater the youngens as they only got some small roots to absorb water& o 2 .... ,


Fj

 

[bonecarver_OG]

the 250w are sure a good option.

we are using it in an experiment for clones with first part of veg in fluoros at 10 000 lumens and the over to the 250 hd - with about the double of lumen (20 000) - it affects the growth in an very interesting way. the diffrent spectras do some intersting things.

- i have this far allways used just fluros for first stage and then after to the hps - but it seems worth to get the hd's too. mixed the growth pattern must get much more interesting with branching and compactness combined. - a must to try

 

[Rubberband Man]

It looked like light burn when I saw the way the leaves were curling.

Light: Plants are under my 1000w HPS. Light is about 22-24 inches away.

Too close for these young plants. Raise the light a foot higher...if its not too late. If they can be saved, then the tricky part is to keep the light at the right distance so they aren't burned, and so they dont stretch.

edit: sometimes i like to post my opinion before reading the other posts so I'm not influenced by people more experienced than myself. That way you get a more untainted opinion, and also it's like a game for me because I get to learn too. Glad it worked out for you.

 

[SweetIndica2]

It looked like light burn when I saw the way the leaves were curling.



Too close for these young plants. Raise the light a foot higher...if its not too late. If they can be saved, then the tricky part is to keep the light at the right distance so they aren't burned, and so they dont stretch.

edit: sometimes i like to post my opinion before reading the other posts so I'm not influenced by people more experienced than myself. That way you get a more untainted opinion, and also it's like a game for me because I get to learn too. Glad it worked out for you.

Already did, awhile ago. Although, even with the light only 22=24 inches away, it definately couldn't of been light burn. I can hold my hand a foot away from the glass for over 5 minutes, and barely feel any warmth. It has a glass lens installed and was aircooled while it was at that height. While it's aircooled, i can touch the glass on the reflector and not get burnt, no matter how long i hold it. I can even touch the bulb, believe it or not without getting burnt. The combination of the fan plus the cold temps in that room cooled the sun bitch right down lol. Without any light or heaters on in that room, it gets down to the 40's, even 30's on rare occasions. Although, i do agree that the light should of been farther away, i'm sure they were a little stunted by that also. It's at about 32 inches right now. I've been moving it about 2 inches closer every day. They look a ton better already, i'll take some pics of them and post in here.

Thanks to everyone!

 

[SweetIndica2]

About the 250w, that's a good idea...but i think i'm just going to buy a 4 bulb T5 system, that way i can use it for clones AND vegging and uses only 216 watts. It gives off 20,000 lumens and is 48" X 15", so it can cover a nice amount of plants. It's only $150 too, i'm going to grab it after this harvest so i can use it for future grows. The light i'm going to use for the sensi star and blockhead clones when i take them will be two 42w cfl's, i didn't even know i still had them, i found them last night. They give off like 2700 lumens each, they are 2700k color spectrum though...i can still use them for clones though right? I do agree, that cfl's are AWESOME for clones though....i would never think about using an HID for clones. Them seem to only need very little light in the cloning phase, and cfl's are perfect for that.

 

[Rubberband Man]

^light burn doesn't have anything to do with the heat (although the two problems combined make the situation more apparent and usually go hand in hand).

It's simply an overabundance of light that the plant was receiving and it can't handle it.

 

[SweetIndica2]

^light burn doesn't have anything to do with the heat (although the two problems combined make the situation more apparent and usually go hand in hand).

It's simply an overabundance of light that the plant was receiving and it can't handle it.

Maybe that's what you/other people think of it...but i, as well as plenty of other people think of it as actual BURN. When i see light burned plants, it usually means the light is too close, and the heat is actually stressing the plant. For example, when you see leaves that are curled upwards, and sometimes even have burn marks...that's light burn. IDK, maybe i just misunderstood it...but i do believe we are both right..just in a different sense. If your right about how light burn means too much light abundance, then you are right. I just thought you meant my plants looked like they were actually burnt...no offense taken.

 

[Rubberband Man]

2 ft. of 1k just looked like way too close for those plants. That was the main tipoff.

It doesn't have to be hot to get light burn. Just like it doesn't need to be warm outside for you to get a sunburn. I think the term "burn" may not be as appropriate as terms such as heat burn or nute burn. But since "burn" is so fitting for the other two examples, it isn't such a stretch to call this a burn of somesort.

Try to be a little more cool when talking to the dudes on page 3 even though they posted what was already said. As you noticed, I did the same thing, and you ended up learning something anyways.

 

[SweetIndica2]

Well i mean, i know that the light abundance can be high...i just had a different idea of it, and i know i'm not the only one. I have seen two types of light burn, actual burn and overabundance of light like you said...i'm just use to seeing an actual burnt plant when i see alot of "light burn" related threads. Because alot of the time, i'll see people putting the light too close and actually burning the plant, like when i see people trying to put a non-aircooled hps like an inch away from the top of the plant, it just doesn't work out lol.

I mean, the light abundance could definately of had something to do with them being stressed...but theres a very good chance it wasn't. I mean 2 feet away, is very normal for a 1000w. Even under plants this young. I mean they are over 2 weeks old, it's not like they are seedlings. And they didn't show any signs of light stress even when they were only a few days old, the problems didn't arise until the temps dropped that low because of the recent cold weather.

Think about it, in nature you can't adjust the brightness of the sun. The sun is much stronger than any H.I.D light.

 

[Rubberband Man]

I mean 2 feet away, is very normal for a 1000w. Even under plants this young. I mean they are over 2 weeks old, it's not like they are seedlings.

Forget their age and look at their maturity. They're too small to handle that type of light. I had a 400 watt and burned my little guys from over 2 feet away.

Further evidence concludes that some of your plants suffered more than others. Looking at the picture, it looks like one of your larger plants (maybe 3" tall?) is doing considerably better than the smaller one. This issue played true in my case as well. Also take into consideration that this is pretty early for a nutrient issue to be taking place that effects one and not the others so severely....assuming they are same strain.

And they didn't show any signs of light stress even when they were only a few days old, the problems didn't arise until the temps dropped that low because of the recent cold weather.

How long did you have the 1K HPS 2 feet above the plants before you noticed the problem?

 

[Frozenguy]

there must be some other type of factor here.. i have my 600watt aircooled and i can get it about 5-6" away from the tops of my plants. temps are about mid-high 70's and humidity is 20-25%. i moved the plants about 3 inches away from the glass and i noticed some leaves just cringling.. almost waving, warping like a road would. but not badly, just minor and on like 2 plants. so i backed off and they are fine.. it might be strain dependent but i'm sure a lot of plants can handle the closeness as long as the heat is kept low.. there is still is possiblitiy for "burn" without heat..

sunburn was a good example.. but i dunno.. i was even pretty surprised my girls got it.. cause usually my plants dont..but i dont grow seeds often..

2ft from a 1k should not matter especially with those temps. i also have a fan on them from day 1

 

[Rubberband Man]

2ft from a 1k should not matter especially with those temps.

Yeah, but like you said, you dont grow from seeds often. Look how young his plants are. These aren't clones, they're seedlings.

 

[SweetIndica2]

frozen- exactly, you hit the nail on the head. I mean think, in nature the light is far brighter than any H.I.D. The only time i can think the plants would actually suffer, is if the light actually BURNT the plant. If your 400w is giving you problems for 2 feet away, then it's not the light causing your problems. I use to use a 400w before the 1000w i have now, and always started seedlings with it from about 16-18 inches away, not once did i ever have any problems with my grows under it. Why would the plants be fine under the 1000w for over a week, and then all of a sudden be effected by it when they are older? Not to mention it was being aircooled while the light was that close, like i said i could hold my hand on the actual glass and barely feel any warmth.

I mean, plants can't get sunburnt like a human can, your comparing apples to oranges. I have even heard of people packing 300+ watts per square foot, and not having any problems.

I mean i'm sure it definately is possible to give too much light too seedlings, but not from 2 feet away. Remember, even from 2 feet away...a 1000w gives off ALOT less light than it would from close.

 

[SweetIndica2]

Yeah, but like you said, you dont grow from seeds often. Look how young his plants are. These aren't clones, they're seedlings.

Are they both still plants? Yes. Not to mention clones are alot smaller than my plants are, and clones react even worse to overabundance of light. That's just basically proving my point even further.

 

[420guy]

hey sweetindica2...how is having 50-60% humidity in veg WRONG...i notice way better growth when my humidity stays around 50-55% rather than when it's at 30-40%...maybe you need to check up info before posting bro...I too also know people who veg with their hortilux, but vegging rooted plants and 10 day old seedlings are a diferent story....as far as the floros and vegging 16-20 plants, you're right, i missed that number so i apoligize...but i know my strains grow at a higher humidity, so that's all i was passing along...