Sealed or unsealed room?

[ogatec]

unsealed can have less odor if done properly, negative air pressure pulled through a carbon filter will eliminate smell better than a carbon filter sitting in a "sealed" room. most sealed rooms still have cracks & holes which air can be forced through by positive pressure created by the fans & a/c..

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Wow, the only pro for unsealed is less smell? Well, I guess I'll have to trot out my usual contrary 'pinion. What is this pipedream about a controlled environment? Is it a huge ego, or a lack of understanding of the staggering amount of variables in a natural system, or both, that lets humans believe that an environment can even be understood, much less controlled? It's good to remember that, at the outset, all things appear simpler than they do after a few years study. It's that attraction to simple, cut and dried ideas that lures beginners into broken concepts like total environmental control. Why not accept that control is not possible, and go the other way?

Treating spider mites is a great example of what I'm talking about. Mites are really only a problem indoors or in greenhouses, outdoors they're way too tasty a meal to get going much. Indoors, we go to great lengths to sterilize against the borg only to have it come back. A far better method is to place indoor plants outside long enough for them to collect local predators, which you then 'invite' indoors when you move the plants back. Local predator mites will be happier on your plants than ones you buy, plus they're much cheaper.

Another example is the addition of garden soil to your potting mix to increase microbial activity as opposed to using a 'sterile' blend. Sure, you can go out and buy those things in a bottle, but are you sure they're really 'all in there'? I wouldn't be. Only by inviting the outside in can we get close to nature.

 

[ruben andre]

hehe funny how many morrons it is around

 

[Lazyman]

Wow, the only pro for unsealed is less smell? Well, I guess I'll have to trot out my usual contrary 'pinion. What is this pipedream about a controlled environment? Is it a huge ego, or a lack of understanding of the staggering amount of variables in a natural system, or both, that lets humans believe that an environment can even be understood, much less controlled? It's good to remember that, at the outset, all things appear simpler than they do after a few years study. It's that attraction to simple, cut and dried ideas that lures beginners into broken concepts like total environmental control. Why not accept that control is not possible, and go the other way?

Treating spider mites is a great example of what I'm talking about. Mites are really only a problem indoors or in greenhouses, outdoors they're way too tasty a meal to get going much. Indoors, we go to great lengths to sterilize against the borg only to have it come back. A far better method is to place indoor plants outside long enough for them to collect local predators, which you then 'invite' indoors when you move the plants back. Local predator mites will be happier on your plants than ones you buy, plus they're much cheaper.

Another example is the addition of garden soil to your potting mix to increase microbial activity as opposed to using a 'sterile' blend. Sure, you can go out and buy those things in a bottle, but are you sure they're really 'all in there'? I wouldn't be. Only by inviting the outside in can we get close to nature.

So if I understand you correctly, sealed rooms are inferior because they are harder?

Of course you can control an indoor environment. If you can't, you're either too cheap or too lazy to get the gear you need to do it right. Big AC, big dehumidifier, and some oscillating fans, and you have a more stable environment than could ever be created outside.

I'll put Floramite SC up against predator mites anyday.

I will never accept that I cannot control a variable. To do so is akin to admitting defeat. Are you really that willing to admit you're not smart enough to outwit mother nature?

 

[Lazyman]

unsealed can have less odor if done properly, negative air pressure pulled through a carbon filter will eliminate smell better than a carbon filter sitting in a "sealed" room. most sealed rooms still have cracks & holes which air can be forced through by positive pressure created by the fans & a/c..

Gonna disagree with you too Ogatec, scrubbers can treat the same air over and over, unlike an exhaust filter that can only hit it once.

Positive pressure is easily avoided with a mini-split or split AC, no air exchange with the outside. I usually rig sealed rooms with an emergency exhaust fan that blows outside, which still keeps it negative pressure.

You gotta pay to play in sealed rooms though, no question.

 

[ThaMagnificent]

as far as performance goes, a sealed room with co2 will be vastly superior to a non sealed room..

however

if you take into account electrical consumption a non sealed room can be a better option..

for example, if you have to have a dehumidifier, and an a/c in a sealed room of decent size, lets say running 4000w.. that can easily be an extra 2000w for those two necessities alone.. whereas if you have a favorable climate, and use FILTERED outdoor air to cool your room, and your lights, as well as keep the humidity down due to air exchange,
you could add an extra 2k of lighting.. and i doubt anyone will disagree that a dialed in sealed room with 4000w will outperform a dialed in, non sealed room with 6000w

 

[FLoJo]

^
if you are forced to choose between an AC or an extra light, then a sealed room is not for you. they are not low-budget setups. they use slightly more electricity. but they will always perform better. this is why co2 is usually the LAST thing that a grower will add to his/her garden.

besides, i don't think AC/fan power usage is a factor when calculating grams-per-watt, is it?



^for your comparison, it would be a 4KW sealed room or a 5KW unsealed room, not 6KW. only a fool would use 2KW of AC to cool four lights. when i ran a 4KW sealed room i used a 960watt 10kbtu window AC. And even in an unsealed room you still use some watts for inline fans , thermostats, etc..

edit: why do ppl think that unsealed rooms don't need dehueys??

grams per watt... dont even get me started on that garbage..

and oh, i didnt realize that because you only have to use a 960w ac unit that it becomes the standard?

FYI the portable AC that my friend uses draws 1700w and does the job comfortably. a smaller AC would not do, because in the summer it reaches over 100 degrees daily for over a month at a time. Also, his dehumidifier pulls over 600w, because he lives in an area with extremely high RH year round.. since he already has to have these two variables covered a sealed room makes sense.

and when i lived in Arizona, with almost no RH, i NEVER needed a dehumidy because venting throughout the rest of the home kept it well within check. i even had to add a humidifier at times to keep it at the proper levels..

so back to my previous statement, it depends on individual conditions. if you have a favorable climate, and can use the environment around you, then it would be wise to simply run more lights, if that is not the case, a sealed room may be a smarter way to go.

electricity should always be factored into the equation. a growers goal 99 percent of the time is to maximize efficiency throughout all aspects of a grow. doing otherwise is what a "moron" would do. if i could go buy a mobile home, and put 60k watts in there, everyone would. since we cannot, we gotsta use them thankin caps

 

[Thundurkel]

Love my tent cuz it'a a sealed environment and gives me buds like this!

that's Bodhi Seeds - Double Purple Blowfish

 

[Lazyman]

I'd love to hear from the 19 voters who voted that think an unsealed room is better.

What makes you think so? All else being equal, do you really think 300PPM Co2 (Atmospheric) is superior to 1500PPM?

 

[Chrellyboy]

I never heard about sealed and unsealed before. Where does the air come from if the room is sealed? Do you just reuse the same air and add CO2? I doubt that though as it would get pretty hot in there. Airconditioning?

 

[FinestKind]

Well, as usual here on ICMag, people hold fiercely to their opinions. That's what makes it a "debate." Good responses, good to read the discourse... keep it up peeps!

FK

 

[MotherNatureMan]

One that affords an optimal environment IMHO

 

[Shcrews]

grams per watt... dont even get me started on that garbage..

no, go ahead... Expain why people shouldn't use grams-per-watt to measure their gardens efficiency. Or even better, grams per watt per month. ???

And btw ur "friend" is wasting his $ with that 1700 watt portable AC. He could use a much smaller window unit. Where do they even sell 1700 watt portables? that's like 14 amps at 120v! .... and not everyone lives in the desert - don't think that just because a room is ventilated it doesn't need a dehuey. I've seen vented rooms at 70%+

so back to my previous statement, it depends on individual conditions. if you have a favorable climate, and can use the environment around you, then it would be wise to simply run more lights,

Unless your "favorable climate" has atmospheric co2 levels of 1000ppm+, anybody who is gonna add co2 probably can't add anymore lights without co2.

and why is this in the soil forum i wonder? should be in growrooms


EDIT: i thought about it and i think the best answer is: if you are running less than 50watts/square foot, you would be better off adding another light than adding co2.

 

[FLoJo]

no, go ahead... Expain why people shouldn't use grams-per-watt to measure their gardens efficiency. Or even better, grams per watt per month. ???

And btw ur "friend" is wasting his $ with that 1700 watt portable AC. He could use a much smaller window unit. Where do they even sell 1700 watt portables? that's like 14 amps at 120v! .... and not everyone lives in the desert - don't think that just because a room is ventilated it doesn't need a dehuey. I've seen vented rooms at 70%+



Unless your "favorable climate" has atmospheric co2 levels of 1000ppm+, anybody who is gonna add co2 probably can't add anymore lights without co2.

and why is this in the soil forum i wonder? should be in growrooms


EDIT: i thought about it and i think the best answer is: if you are running less than 50watts/square foot, you would be better off adding another light than adding co2.

I was saying i didnt want to get started on it because of how people measure, whether it be gpw, gpwmp, kwh, kwhpm etc.. just like any statistic, its easy to manipulate the data...

for instance in my first response comparing a 4000w sealed room using 6000 of appliances vs a 4000w unsealed room running 4000w (i know there are fans and such but bare with me for simplicity of math)

if the sealed room banged out 10lbs and the unsealed room 8lbs, comparing simply lighting wattage that would be 1.12 gpw vs .896 gpw.. if you added in the extra 2k of appliances on the sealed room it would be .746 gpw roughly..

thats why i prefer to calculate by kWh which will add in every fan, every light, dehumis, a/c filters etc.. it takes more time to calculate the hourly usage for each appliance, but is more accurate.


now on to the next part..

you dont know my friends conditions, security concerns, location, and other factors so you cant say what he needs or doesnt need.. please dont be ignorant.

also, I know that not everyone lives in the desert.. i know not everyone can bring air from outdoors either, which is why in my original post, i said, IF you have a favorable climate.

and yes, you can add more lights without the need for co2.. IMO you dont need co2 unless you are over about 75 wpsf.

if you have the room, simply add more plants, add more lights and you will be better off than adding co2..

like i said in my initial sentence of my first post, a sealed room will outperfom a non sealed room, hell i even voted for a sealed room..

however, if you have favorable conditions or extenuating circumstances, adding more lights and running a non sealed room could be more benefitial.. i wanted the OP to understand his question more thouroughly and realize that there are more factors than "sealed" or "non sealed" depending on his resources and goals.

 

[thank692]

Gonna disagree with you too Ogatec, scrubbers can treat the same air over and over, unlike an exhaust filter that can only hit it once.

Positive pressure is easily avoided with a mini-split or split AC, no air exchange with the outside. I usually rig sealed rooms with an emergency exhaust fan that blows outside, which still keeps it negative pressure.

You gotta pay to play in sealed rooms though, no question.

I am confused. I should think that if you want to keep nasty little things such as dust mites out of your growing space, you would keep the air pressure higher (more positive).

 

[johnnyla]

veged spindly 1.5ft plants into 3x3ft bushes in 3 weeks using sealed room, CO2, 85 Temp, 60% humidity. unbelievable growth.

 

[drymouth]

we should get a sealed room forum or sticky up so we can better our knowledge in this form of growing, cuzz it seems like alot of peep's including me would like to learn more. I was going to go sealed on my current grow but found out that i was going to need a ac, dh, climate controller, and I was going to have to upgrade my breaker box to take this extra power!

Going sealed on the next run I like the fact that I can control the enviroment.

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

Treating spider mites is a great example of what I'm talking about. Mites are really only a problem indoors or in greenhouses, outdoors they're way too tasty a meal to get going much. Indoors, we go to great lengths to sterilize against the borg only to have it come back. A far better method is to place indoor plants outside long enough for them to collect local predators, which you then 'invite' indoors when you move the plants back. Local predator mites will be happier on your plants than ones you buy, plus they're much cheaper.

Yea or you can crank the CO2 in your sealed room up to 5000ppm for half an hour and destroy any pests in the room.

Why risk thieves/cops/mold etc??

 

[Rednick]

I'd love to hear from the 19 voters who voted that think an unsealed room is better.

What makes you think so? All else being equal, do you really think 300PPM Co2 (Atmospheric) is superior to 1500PPM?

What makes you think that my room is only 300ppm b/c it is not sealed???

Just gotta burn more hydrocarbons my friend.

Of course if I listened to half the people on this site, I would think that mj is grown by scientists in lab coats.

It depends on what you want. I prefer to let nature in. If you are worried about mites coming in to your room, then filter the air. A little fresh air, with a CO2 supplement, never hurt anyone. I like to exchange the gases with the outside environment.

 

[Rednick]

Yea or you can crank the CO2 in your sealed room up to 5000ppm for half an hour and destroy any pests in the room.

Why risk thieves/cops/mold etc??

I may have to try that. How well did it work for you? Burner or bottle? Pyrethium can only do so much.
My friends have tried that but to no avail (not high enough ppm, or lenght of time I am sure).
Can it be done at nighttime? (for temp sake using a burner).
Using burner in half-sealed environment, I think I can get PPM that high.
What about passing out when entering the room? I have had to turn a burner off before to work.

Thanks.