ScroG Help

[ChenBenTz]

To explain..

The reason why I chose to LST, is because the plants were so bushy I couldn't even see the branches.

Now, I can clearly see which parts need to go where.

I figure that I will give the LST a few days to do its magic, then remove the string.

That way, the branches can once again climb upwards.

Once they get to the screen, I'll tip the main branch over LST style and tie the rest of the branches up.

I could still lower the screen, but I figure.. why? The plant should get to be 2-3 times bigger, so that extra 10cm between it and the screen aren't a big enough deal.

 

[VerdantGreen]

its your choice and your learning curve

like ive said i would have lowered the screen to spread the branches out.

from the pic the screen needs to go down a LOT, not just 10cm

if you are determined to leave it where it is the best you can do is use it to spread the branches as they go through rather than do a proper scrog

one last bit of advice and i'll leave you alone - you'll find the string screen will get deformed upwards by the plant, its a lot more effective to use a wire one.

VG

 

[tleaf jr.]

I would just let them grow into the screen they'll take loner to reach the screen if you LST , LST is meant to make your plant more bushy ..

see here this plants was way taller than my screen I pulled the net down onto the plant flattening it out giving it a carpet affect so you can end up with...

 

[tleaf jr.]

here she is before going in

see very bushy just like your ladies the screen is your training device in the scrog method...

 

[Budley Doright]

I'm curious as to why you would want the scrog to move up and down? I'm about to build my scrog screen and planned on attaching it permanently to the frame of my 4x4 fabric bed. what are some advantages of letting it be adjustable?

I have atm two very different plants that I scrog....


One is pretty lanky and branchy.... the other much more like the thread starters plants....

I find the lanky plant likes the screen higher....and the other lower.....


The other option is to raise some of the containers....which does the same thing....

 

[Budley Doright]

its your choice and your learning curve

like ive said i would have lowered the screen to spread the branches out.

from the pic the screen needs to go down a LOT, not just 10cm

if you are determined to leave it where it is the best you can do is use it to spread the branches as they go through rather than do a proper scrog

one last bit of advice and i'll leave you alone - you'll find the string screen will get deformed upwards by the plant, its a lot more effective to use a wire one.

VG

Verdant.... you may not like it....but you arent doing a 'proper scrog':


you might as well get rid of the screen and just do lst.....


Clearly you allow the plant to simply grow thru the screen.....

A modular scrog with a screen the same size as the plant is no proper scrog......


But you do have some right proper genetics......

 

[Budley Doright]

I would just let them grow into the screen they'll take loner to reach the screen if you LST , LST is meant to make your plant more bushy ..

View Image see here this plants was way taller than my screen I pulled the net down onto the plant flattening it out giving it a carpet affect so you can end up with...View Image

Lst is not just for making the plant more bushy.....


its to allow light to the center of the plant.... This will allow some of the lower parts of the plant to reach the screen which are shaded.....

 

[Budley Doright]

To explain..

The reason why I chose to LST, is because the plants were so bushy I couldn't even see the branches.

Now, I can clearly see which parts need to go where.

I figure that I will give the LST a few days to do its magic, then remove the string.

That way, the branches can once again climb upwards.

Once they get to the screen, I'll tip the main branch over LST style and tie the rest of the branches up.

I could still lower the screen, but I figure.. why? The plant should get to be 2-3 times bigger, so that extra 10cm between it and the screen aren't a big enough deal.

Im going to agree with your decision.....

but I would still rather see the plant flatter......

WHat a scrog is trying to do....is to defeat something called apical dominance.....


The best way to do that is to lower the tallest parts and allow other parts to become the tallest.....


In a normal plant..... the tallest part of the plant releases a hormone which subdues the growth of the growth below it......


Its most important to pull down the tallest growth to allow the plant to fill your screen with similar sized branches.... which will yield similar sized buds..... the goal....

 

[Budley Doright]

Here is a little bit about apical dominance....

Apical dominance is the phenomenon whereby the main central stem of the plant is dominant over (i.e., grows more strongly than) other side stems; on a branch the main stem of the branch is further dominant over its own side branchlets.

Plant physiology describes apical dominance as the control exerted by the terminal bud (and shoot apex) over the outgrowth of lateral buds.[1]


It would be my guess that if you had started lst sooner To remove apical dominance......your plant would probably look different now.......


Let me add this..... I choose not to lower the screen to the plant initially because I want some of the smaller branches taller than the apical dominant ones.....

The smaller branches then become dominant and will grow faster....


My goal is to have as many branches as close to the same size as possible....


The best way imo to do that is to allow SELECTED branches be dominant....


Associated with the concept of apical dominance is another training method called fim....... (fuck I missed)


The reason that works is because you have removed the apical meristem and the associated hormone....

allowing lower parts to grow unimpeded....

 

[DrFever]

I found that when you start training plants to early in its life , you will have a tendency of having short busy plants that never seem to grow up. this is ok if your limited to Height but here are the issues that can happen,
you will not have as much air movement in internal plant area causing possible mold, when bud sets Trapped heat and moisture coming up from soil perfect conditions for pest invasion, Watering issues if hand fed, and most importantly working under the screen

Some tricks for future grows
start plant training when plant is about 12" tall or more what i do is i will lean plant over at a angle for a day or so then transplant into Larger container this will turn all branches in one direction. Making it easy for myself to start to train plant.

When training plant after super cropping , fimming, i will raise light in order to stretch plant upwards , more or less forcing stretch , once plant stretches upwards ,, I will lower light and resume training once i am happy i will release plants from its restraints ( Rope , wire ) and again stretch plant upwards
Once i am close to my screen height i will drop my screen onto plants , at this stage is where i will stretch branches sideways pushing them all outwards still while supercropping plant after after a week i will look at how much of screen is full usually i flip to flower when 80 percent plus of screen is full then once flipped to 12 12 i will raise screen as for pre flower stretch then work plant by placing each shoot into its square lowering or raising screen until i find the perfect spot where buds are at a even canopy to lights

 

[Budley Doright]

I was a mentor on OG some years back..... I found much to my displeasure.....


Is that people respond dispropotionately to green bars dots and titles...... not words and concepts.....

Dr fever talks about fimming....(just an example) but I would be willing to bet..... he has never mentioned apical dominance......

He talks about scrog..... hes an expert....but has never mentioned apical dominance...

Not picking on just you dr...... just saying....


Or understood thats what fim is defeating.... or lst or scrog......

all 3 are methods of defeating apical dominance.......

 

[Budley Doright]

The way I train my plants initially..... is to simply tie or weigh down the apical meristem.....

as the secondary branches catch up.....

those branches are lst'd


I purposely do not add the screen at that point.....because I want some parts taller than other parts....

 

[ChenBenTz]

one last bit of advice and i'll leave you alone - you'll find the string screen will get deformed upwards by the plant, its a lot more effective to use a wire one.

VG

You don't have to leave me alone. I am thankful for your advice.

I'm torn on whether I should lower the screen or not. I'm going to give it some thought.

As for the wire.. I couldn't find any thick wire that wasn't expensive, and I heard the fishing line wire could cut your plants. In any case, I'm not certain how I'd tie the wire.

The string has been stretched taut enough that I'm confident it will work.

I purposely do not add the screen at that point.....because I want some parts taller than other parts....

Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm going for.

My plan is to LST the branches and when they reach the screen, I will LST the main branch TO the screen, thereby relinquishing its dominance.

 

[DrFever]

I was a mentor on OG some years back..... I found much to my displeasure.....


Is that people respond dispropotionately to green bars dots and titles...... not words and concepts.....

Dr fever talks about fimming....(just an example) but I would be willing to bet..... he has never mentioned apical dominance......

He talks about scrog..... hes an expert....but has never mentioned apical dominance...

Not picking on just you dr...... just saying....


Or understood thats what fim is defeating.... or lst or scrog......

all 3 are methods of defeating apical dominance.......

You are correct the reason i never bothered with that subject is it is defeated with my style prior to transplanting my plant into the LST training pot in my 5 plan scrog journal what i do is place plant prior to transplant literally side ways for a few days this in turn turns all branches in one direction the main branch is sideways and within a week all branches are directly fighting to become the main like in pick this is how i beat it

This is why i stress now to not even bother with early LST wait till plant gets 12" + tall then turn it sideways by doing this it will not slow any growth
* on another note from my experience when a person starts to soon LST / training plant in reality plant is using lots of energy / with slightly being stressed from LST all this is going to be cut off anyways as it is lower plant Also what occurs is plant becomes short and bushy to close to top of soil seriously deters under canopy management , watering , etc

 

[Budley Doright]

You don't have to leave me alone. I am thankful for your advice.

I'm torn on whether I should lower the screen or not. I'm going to give it some thought.

As for the wire.. I couldn't find any thick wire that wasn't expensive, and I heard the fishing line wire could cut your plants. In any case, I'm not certain how I'd tie the wire.

The string has been stretched taut enough that I'm confident it will work.


Im not sure I want to agree with you.... when I was done lsting.... I would lower the screen to the lst not allow the plant to grow to the screen......




Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm going for.

My plan is to LST the branches and when they reach the screen, I will LST the main branch TO the screen, thereby relinquishing its dominance.

Im not sure I want to agree with you.... when I am done lsting.... I would lower the screen to the lst not allow the plant to grow to the screen......

 

[Budley Doright]

You are correct the reason i never bothered with that subject is it is defeated with my style prior to transplanting my plant into the LST training pot in my 5 plan scrog journal what i do is place plant prior to transplant literally side ways for a few days this in turn turns all branches in one direction the main branch is sideways and within a week all branches are directly fighting to become the main like in pick this is how i beat it

When you use that method you are likely going to cause a stall......

Thats why when I lst initially its just the apical meristem..... that leaves the secondary branches still growing strongly.......


and so on......


I did in fact find that verdent did mention 'apical dominance' in one of his very nice threads....


But I still dont think a modular scrog is a true scrog......

 

[VerdantGreen]

Verdant.... you may not like it....but you arent doing a 'proper scrog':


you might as well get rid of the screen and just do lst.....


Clearly you allow the plant to simply grow thru the screen.....

A modular scrog with a screen the same size as the plant is no proper scrog......


But you do have some right proper genetics......

using words like apical dominance to a n00b may be confusing, as would talking about auxins and the like.

proper scrog or not, lol, that pulled more than 10 oz from under a 250 and ive done that many times. the plants are trained to the screen but then allowed to grow above it because that massively increases the yield. - a box full of colas will yeild more than a flat plate of buds and also allows me to use the optimal penetration of the lamp.

the modular scrog allows me to get an even height canopy from 4 different strains which again would be be pretty impossible in a regular scrog. it also keeps each plant in its alloted area. the canopy shown is 4 different strains.

i usually let the plant grow pretty big and then squash it under the screen when i flip it, this avoids getting too many sidebranches from the early trained tops which get too big while the screen fills in.

anyway feel free to throw up some pics and show me how it's done

VG

 

[DrFever]

When you use that method you are likely going to cause a stall......

Thats why when I lst initially its just the apical meristem..... that leaves the secondary branches still growing strongly.......


and so on......


I did in fact find that verdent did mention 'apical dominance' in one of his very nice threads....


But I still dont think a modular scrog is a true scrog......

And like Verdant mentioned i don't bother with phrases that will throw a new growers into confusion , and there is really no need for it
There is no stall whats so ever its all about getting as many shoots to the light source
bigger stocks bigger pots as i use 34 gallon totes brings me to 12 - 14 oz per dried plant with 5 week veg periods 1180 dry grams per 1000 w and not a high yielding strain

 

[Budley Doright]

The little winkie thing wasnt necessary....

WHile I love to look at other peoples pic......

I dont do them....... Im an old fuck who is not going to change......

I find nothing wrong with what you do....


If you use small lamps....... clearly scrog is the way to go......


You did say something I think is just a bit contradictory.....


YOu say you let the plant grow pretty big then you squash it.....


I guess thats relative.... because then you have a large main stem to contend with.....


I certainly dont start any training for awhile...... but I want to prevent the main stem from becoming hard to work with.....

 

[Budley Doright]

And like Verdant mentioned i don't bother with phrases that will throw a new growers into confusion
==============================================

I think thats pretty condescending frankly.....

I posted the definition and the thread starter posted info to indicate he gets it.......



As far as using language more easily understood by most anyone...

noun, Botany
1.
suppression of the development of lateral buds in a growing plant shoot, caused by hormones produced in the tip of the shoot.



I used the term hormone..... but I also know that auxin is a better word more technically accurate word....