Sam skunkmans sk#1

[Sam_Skunkman]

I do think he knows of the document of course, but if you think humans start smoking after 1492 you're wrong.The Cannabis which was found in the grave was cultivated according to the researchers.In that time you had in China shamanism which had the knowledge of certain hallucinogenic herbs for their rituals and i dont think the cannabis is used for a nice cup of tea.

Sure I do think so, just like in India where Cannabis was widely used pre 1492 but it was eaten, you need to read real science not just popular books on the subject. Try:
THE HERB: HASHISH VERSUS MEDIEVAL MUSLIM SOCIETY, by Franz Rosenthal. Leiden. Brill, 1971.

Eating cannabis or drinking it in milk lassies as bhang or sesame oil extractions in oil was how it was used prior to 1492.
This reminds me of arguing with Indian farmers that believed Papaya's were always grown in India, they were in fact introduced after 1492, like smoking and tobacco.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

elmanito,
"Pot has been smoked for over 4700 years"
Do you have any proof of this? I am interested.
I thought smoking (tobacco) was introduced from the new world after 1492?
There was no Cannabis in the new world prior to 1492, or smoking in the old world prior to 1492.
-SamS

Please show any reference you have for pot being smoked for over 4700 years? 500 ok, but 4700???

-SamS

 

[indifferent]

Didn't Herodotus write about the Scythian practice of sitting in an enclosed tent and throwing cannabis flowers onto a fire in the tent in order to inhale the fumes?

That was 2000 years ago so doesn't that count as smoking cannabis in a way?

 

[3dDream]

Maybe the chinese brought it over? It's all a bunch of maybe's.

A. History of Cannabis in North America

While there is strong historical evidence illustrating that the psychoactive properties of cannabis have been used as part of cultural practices of several societies throughout the world, it is unclear when the psychoactive properties of cannabis were discovered in North America. Some scholars believe that cannabis probably existed in North America long before the Europeans arrived. In Chris Bennett�s book Green Gold: Marijuana in Magic and Religion he says, �there is some very good physical evidence that indicates cannabis played a part in some of the native cultures prior to the arrival of Columbus.�([104]) In 1985, Bill Fitzgerald discovered resin scrapings of 500-year-old pipes in Morriston, Ontario containing �traces of hemp and tobacco that is five times stronger than the cigarettes smoked today.�([105]) Other archaeological evidence includes stone and wooden pipes and hemp fibre pouches that were found in the Ohio Valley from about 800 A.D.([106])

Elders of some North American native tribes can also remember their ancestors using cannabis in a ritual manner. According to Richard L. Lingeman in his book Drugs from A to Z, a 79 year old member of the Cinco Putas tribe in California



recalls his grandmother�s daily ritual when he was a small child. She took some cannabis flower tops out of an intricately carved box then rolled it in handmade corn paper. She held the resulting �joint� upright in front of her and, watching the rising swirled smoke, prayed: �Oh thank-you Great Mother!� for each of the gifts the day had brought, as well as thanks for her present relaxation.([107])



Even today, there are some North American tribes, especially those from Mexico, who have used cannabis as sacred gift under the name Rosa Maria or Santa Rosa, and continue to use it today.

Indians in the Mexican states of Veracruz, Hidalgo, and Puebla practice a communal curing ceremony with a plant called Santa Rosa, identified as cannabis sativa, which is considered both a plant and a sacred intercessor with the Virgin. Although the ceremony is based mainly on Christian elements, the plant is worshipped as an earth deity and is thought to be alive and to represent a part of the heart of God.([108])



However, some scholars are doubtful that cannabis was an integral part of the cultures of North American native tribes. �With few exceptions, cannabis has not penetrated significantly into many native religious beliefs and ceremonies.�([109]) These scholars believe that the cultivation of cannabis in the New World originated by its introduction through white settlers. Even if North American natives had been using cannabis prior to White man�s arrival �unfortunately much of the religion and culture of the aboriginal peoples of the western hemisphere was destroyed or driven underground by the European invaders.�([110])

Hence, there is little evidence that the natives of the continent introduced the white settlers to the cannabis plant or its psychoactive properties. The earliest known evidence is that Louis Hebert, Champlain�s apothecary, introduced the cannabis plant to North American white settlers in 1606. However, the white settlers did not discover the psychoactive properties of cannabis until the end of the 19th century. Rather, the cannabis plant was widely grown across North America for its use as a fibre in clothing and cordage and to provide sails and rigging for ships. The pilgrims also planted hemp soon after its introduction, and used it to cover their wagons.

 

[Dkgrower]

What abouth the bronze age pibes that are found all over the world made off diffent materiale.

I dont know what they smoked but cannabis would be a very good chooice

An recent find outside Hopenhagen made out off chalk, bronze age.

Real nice diskussion have many times thourgh abouth when we started to smoke cannabis

pollen analyses have establised that cannabis was cultivated in denmark from the bronze age
so they had cannabis and pibes.

 

[GDK]

Good thread. I have a 5 pack of Sams Sk#1

Stay Safe

 

[Paco]

I can't believe i am doing this...
Sam you are wrong. just because some scientist says that there were no remnants of cannabis in the "new world" does not mean that it was impossible.
Chinese bamboo has been found all along the west coast of this hemisphere. in small and large pockets.
The jews and Moors had arrived several decades before 1492, and many others prior to that. considering all of the south asian sea travel, I find it improbable that cannabis would not make it to the new world.
Remember these so called historians and scientist thought that the native americans were rudimentary hunter and gatherers, that lived in small, uncivilized groups. having more information at our hands today, we see how wrong those initial assessments were.
I only say this because i have written extensively on alternative cultural geography and similar ideas regarding North Americas history.
PS
North American tobacco was around for a very, very long time, it was the introduction of the smooth smoking Eastern Indian variety that became widespread and was favored among most american tribes.

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

Ice Age Columbus

Traditional history tells us that European settlers discovered America about the time of the Renaissance. But revolutionary new archaeological data and the latest DNA research reveal that Europeans visited our shores far earlier – some 17,000 years before Columbus was even born.

this don't proove nothing cocerning cannabis but just shows us how used to travel even during ice age..........

I bet u even big Diplodocus used to nibble cannabis grass...lol.....

 

[motaco]

Not to be a kill joy but Sam is right. It's really just hard to believe how limited the world was prior to 1492.

Potatos are a perfect example. Nothing could be more northern european than potatos right? The Irish and the potato famines, etc. Well potatos are from peru if memory serves me right. Corn also was from the new world. These things were not always there.

Hemp traveled the world pretty fast because of how many things we use it for. But prior to 1492 it wasn't used here.

There will always be debate about who was the first inhabitants of the new world, and when. But none of that has anything to do with proving hemp was here. I'd like to remind you hunter gatherers (especially during the ice age) did not have the agricultural revolution.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Again I point out that every Cannabis or hemp culture in Asia and the middle east and Europe and Africa there are remains of Cannabis pollen and Cannabis seeds on the bottom of lakes etc. In the Americas none have been found dated prior to 1492, why?
I understand why you want to believe what you do believe, but where is the hard science proof? All of the listed examples have been either debunked or never had any real science they were just trying to prove something, that was not true.
Sure the scythians breathed fumes of Cannabis thrown on embers under a tent 2000 years ago, but I meant smoking with pipes, in the modern sense like they did in the Americas pre 1492.
Anyway this is a bit like arguing about faith, those that believe will not change their mind and neither will the people that want hard science to confirm any claims.
-SamS
http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha5208.html

Read this about what Cannabis has been found.

 

[indifferent]

I can't believe i am doing this...
Sam you are wrong. just because some scientist says that there were no remnants of cannabis in the "new world" does not mean that it was impossible.
Chinese bamboo has been found all along the west coast of this hemisphere. in small and large pockets.
The jews and Moors had arrived several decades before 1492, and many others prior to that. considering all of the south asian sea travel, I find it improbable that cannabis would not make it to the new world.
Remember these so called historians and scientist thought that the native americans were rudimentary hunter and gatherers, that lived in small, uncivilized groups. having more information at our hands today, we see how wrong those initial assessments were.
I only say this because i have written extensively on alternative cultural geography and similar ideas regarding North Americas history.
PS
North American tobacco was around for a very, very long time, it was the introduction of the smooth smoking Eastern Indian variety that became widespread and was favored among most american tribes.

Jews and Moors in North America prior to 1492? Never heard of that.

Viking and Irish Monks both 'discovered' North America in the 900s, long before Colombus, but they only visited a very small part of the far NE seaboard.

Like Sam says, there just isn't any cannabis pollen to be found in deposits in North America prior to 1492.

That fact alone is proof of his argument imho.

Don't forget that the first time the western world took much interest in cannabis as dope was the 1840s and O'Shaughnessy's studies in India.

Westerners didn't start smoking paper cigarettes until the 1850s after soldiers brought the idea back from the Crimean War where they had seen Turks smoking cigarettes rolled with newspaper.

I know it's a lovely thought to imagine our ancestors toking up a storm, but in truth, no-one smoked a joint as we know it today until 150 years ago at the earliest, which is yesterday in the grand scheme of history.

 

[ElRubio]

Educational thread...
thx all

 

[motaco]

I want to say don't feel dumb though. It wasn't so long ago I believed the same thing. I had to edit it out of the ultimate sativa thread.

I have to admit first off that american public schools are not very good, and neither are most private schools for that matter at translating the data they make you memorize and regurgitate into something that will form any coherent memorable education.

But in my adult years and continuing education privately (caring is fundamental to learning IMHO) that was one of the things that amazed me. The history of the world and especially when we met the new world. Corn was considered an "uncivilized crop" as was only fed to slaves for a long time here. No potatoes in Ireland, no tomatoes in Italy, No chili in India. And no pot in America much to my dismay.

 

[Cinderella99]

Yea...This is a really good question as far as I can tell, Sam. At least based on a cursory google search, it seems that there is some acceptance to the idea of Mayan and Incan MJ use, however there seems to be a dearth of tangible scientific evidence of ancient MJ use in "The New World". Perhaps it's just a function of who writes the history books and that 3rd world countries don't dig up their dead as fast in the name of redevelopment?

"MARIJUANA IN THE NEW WORLD

According to Richard L. Lingeman in his book Drugs from A to Z, page 146, "Marijuana smoking was known by the Indians before Columbus." After the Spanish conquest in 1521 the Spaniards recorded that the Aztecs (Mayans) used marijuana.
The present day Cuna Indians of Panama use marijuana as a sacred herb and the Cora Indians of the Sierra Madre Occidental of Mexico smoke marijuana in this course of their sacred ceremonies.
In the Ritual Use of Cannabis Sativa L by William A Emboden, Jr., pages 229 and 231, is the following: "A particularly interesting account of a Tepehua (no relationship to "Tepecana") Indian ceremony with cannabis was published in 1963 by the Mexican ethnologist Roberto William Garcia of the University of Veracruz, northernmost branch of the Maya language family.
"In his account of Teehua religion and ritual, William Garcia (1963:215-21) describes in some detail a communal curing ceremony focused on a plant called santa rose, "The Herb Which Makes One Speak", which he identified botanically as Cannabis Sativa: According to Garcia it is worshipped as an earth deity and is thought to be alive and comparable to a piece of the heart of God"

 

[tomsawyer]

I want to say don't feel dumb though. It wasn't so long ago I believed the same thing. I had to edit it out of the ultimate sativa thread.

I have to admit first off that american public schools are not very good, and neither are most private schools for that matter at translating the data they make you memorize and regurgitate into something that will form any coherent memorable education.

But in my adult years and continuing education privately (caring is fundamental to learning IMHO) that was one of the things that amazed me. The history of the world and especially when we met the new world. Corn was considered an "uncivilized crop" as was only fed to slaves for a long time here. No potatoes in Ireland, no tomatoes in Italy, No chili in India. And no pot in America much to my dismay.

The Central and South American native populations were far advanced in agriculture, compared to the Europeans. So much of our food today comes from them.

Potatoes, peppers, maize (corn), etc. all come from them. They actually bred hundreds of different varieties of each plant. Also paprika, isnt really from Hungary. Chocolate comes from there I think as well.

 

[DRorganic]

I wonder if it was around when the dinosaurs roamed the earth? America and Africa was one continent until tectonic shifts in the earths crust happend.

 

[hazy]

I know one thing.

If I had been on the team that found the kilo in the ancient dead guy's grave, I'd have snagged a nug and stuffed it into my pipe.

You do know the folks in those graves in NW China wore plaid and had blonde and red hair right? Ancient stoner Scotsmen.

 

[Longhair]

Again I point out that every Cannabis or hemp culture in Asia and the middle east and Europe and Africa there are remains of Cannabis pollen and Cannabis seeds on the bottom of lakes etc. In the Americas none have been found dated prior to 1492, why?
I understand why you want to believe what you do believe, but where is the hard science proof? All of the listed examples have been either debunked or never had any real science they were just trying to prove something, that was not true.
Sure the scythians breathed fumes of Cannabis thrown on embers under a tent 2000 years ago, but I meant smoking with pipes, in the modern sense like they did in the Americas pre 1492.
Anyway this is a bit like arguing about faith, those that believe will not change their mind and neither will the people that want hard science to confirm any claims.
-SamS
http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha5208.html

Read this about what Cannabis has been found.

I Agree S.S.!
I Remember Reading In High Times About 1968-69 +/- That In Europe A Fossilized Caveman Had In His Goodies Seeds Which Included Cannabis Seeds. Also Had Flints To Start Fires. Among The Flint In A Separate Bag Was A Horn In The Shape Of Pipe That Was Charred. Most Say Since The Pipe & Flint Were Together The Pipe Was Used To Start Fires.

I Can't Tell You Anymore! Remember I'm Old So Be Nice Coulda Been A Friend! Lol


Longhair

 

[Cinderella99]

"...I Can't Tell You Anymore! Remember I'm Old So Be Nice Coulda Been A Friend! Lol..."

LOLLLL...That is hilarious-- It coulda been me, no not really, but just sayin'.

Merry Christmas (Bro,Sir, Dude?)

 

[scarred4life]

If cannabis is indigenous to only the eastern hemisphere, as Sam has clearly documented, and smoking was first practiced in the western hemisphere, I wonder, to what extent has the meeting of cannabis with smoking practices played a key role in the development of human culture and globalization?