S1's suck?

[nycKid]

3dDream, you are right my bad. I thought it was an s13. Good points all..jdubz like your work.

 

[Brastaman]

thanks Brasta. I'm having lots of fun doing it. The s2's and s3's that I grew was just for fun. fun....anyone remember what that is? this isn't my business, this is my hobby. i'm in it for fun and good weed. If I can learn something along the way, then cool. I don't have shit to loose by sprouting a few seeds each run and setting em off to the side. I grow mainly for myself and anything left goes to my co-op. why don't you go back and read the posts I wrote earlier on. these plants did NOT HERMIE ON THEIR OWN!!! they were stressed due to environmental factors mainly LIGHT LEAKS. stressing a plant to create male flowers from what I understand is the same thing as using silver... Yes, the s3 is 100% completely a hermie. I've already said this. I am not sure what's going to happen with the s2 but I haven't seen any male flowers yet. The s1's that I have all came from a plant that was unintentionally stessed to produce male flowers. I will have fun with my s1's. man some people are such fucking haters.. aerokush - this is exactly why i don't have a thread.

edit: and also just because a plant spits a nanner in flower, should that plant never be used to breed because it possesses a hermie trait? i've heard plenty of elite strains that spit nanners now and then in late flower....arcata trainwreck used to. i can't think of more off the top of my head but i've read countless threads on here about it. does this mean that all of these plants shouldn't be bred? isn't there a way to stabilize the strain so that it does not produce male flowers? there has to because the newer trainwreck cuts aren't supposed to spit nanners...

Hiya Jdubz;
look i am not here to argue about your business(what you do), that is up to you, seen. I was just trying to help differentiate between using CS to reverse a plant for pollen that does not HERMIE when STRESSED and using pollen from one that does HERMIE when STRESSED and how this might effect subsequent PROGENY.
I am not going to take your response to my reply as ONLY directed at me. Because you make statements that are irrelevent to anything I posted.

To answer a few questions you proposed however:
-Yes, I remember what fun is and TO ME, IMHO, growing HERMIES is not FUN, whether I grow for business or pleasure.
-Whether a plant that is hermie prone should be used in breeding projects is a personal decision and i have grown many SourD IBL's to come to my conclusion that I make an effort to avoid hemie prone plants when making crosses. (Although I am very, very interested in JLP's SourDibl x OG bx1 seeds for many reasons.)
-Have you grown Arcata TW? I have and yes it spits nanners in late flower, under stress, and I have tried using this pollen and have had ZERO success making seeds. Now, my practice may be flawed but from what i have seen and heard the pollen is not viable from her. WHAT new Arcata TW cuts are you referring to that are new cuts and don't spit nanners? They may not be the REAL Arcata TW used; they may be new cuts from original Arcata TW seeds; or the HERMIE trait might have been covered up during the breeding process but it is still in the genetics. <-- this was my original point.

brasta.

 

[Brastaman]

this is a great thread by CBF to check out for anyone interested: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=60691&page=1&pp=15

 

[jdubz206]

thanks for clarifying. so am i completely wrong in thinking that when you stress a plant to hermie via light leaks, it would be the same as doing it using giberellic acid (spelling?), or CS. i could have sworn i've read a few threads where people were creating s1s by intentionally turning the light on during the dark cycle to stress them. like i said, i'm by no means a breeder and am still an amateur grower. i'm having fun with it and that's all that matters to me honestly, the only difference that I've had so far is that there were male flowers early on on the s3 and i plucked them off. they never came back so it's really not much difference or any more difficult for me to grow them. the s1's that I have honestly produce my favorite smoke out of all of the strains i've grown and is in the top 10 that i've tried to date. they don't hermie. i'm not planning on breeding and selling seeds or anything. it's just something out of the ordinary to do and get results. i do plan on eventually crossing stable strains and this is just good practice until then. take care everyone, sorry if anyone took offense to my earlier post.

Hiya Jdubz;
look i am not here to argue about your business(what you do), that is up to you, seen. I was just trying to help differentiate between using CS to reverse a plant for pollen that does not HERMIE when STRESSED and using pollen from one that does HERMIE when STRESSED and how this might effect subsequent PROGENY.
I am not going to take your response to my reply as ONLY directed at me. Because you make statements that are irrelevent to anything I posted.

To answer a few questions you proposed however:
-Yes, I remember what fun is and TO ME, IMHO, growing HERMIES is not FUN, whether I grow for business or pleasure.
-Whether a plant that is hermie prone should be used in breeding projects is a personal decision and i have grown many SourD IBL's to come to my conclusion that I make an effort to avoid hemie prone plants when making crosses. (Although I am very, very interested in JLP's SourDibl x OG bx1 seeds for many reasons.)
-Have you grown Arcata TW? I have and yes it spits nanners in late flower, under stress, and I have tried using this pollen and have had ZERO success making seeds. Now, my practice may be flawed but from what i have seen and heard the pollen is not viable from her. WHAT new Arcata TW cuts are you referring to that are new cuts and don't spit nanners? They may not be the REAL Arcata TW used; they may be new cuts from original Arcata TW seeds; or the HERMIE trait might have been covered up during the breeding process but it is still in the genetics. <-- this was my original point.

brasta.

 

[englishrick]

my uderstanding is ......using cs on a non hermi plant makes non hermi s1`s...after s2 its gets a lil crazy..


what about crossing 2 different s1`s from the same mother ????....any ideas??....what would the seeds be called??

 

[Aerokush101]

So I have updates, most of my bubba haze X purple kush crosses have hermied. All of them showed some form of female traits though. Some in fact have not shown any form of hermie at all to-date. Day 12 of flower. Hopefully one out of the 9 will survive flowering without showing balls. SoI guess I should re-up on the thread for new materials since I left.

To add, I must say, they all looked identical in flowering, large, thick lucious leaves, like the Purple Kush, now the the variation of change is coming into play, just a tad-bit. A couple of them are stretching like the bubba haze.

 

[jdubz206]

that cross was the result of either the bubba haze or pk turning into a hermie and pollinating the other stain, right?

 

[Aerokush101]

Correct Jdubs, I had the bubba haze that hermied while I was going through some changes, ie bills weren't being payed and etc., so the power was turned off in my house, bad times... Anyway, that played a big role on my plants. I stopped growing for a second and kept the BH around in veg under florescents. Well, obviously, I got back to growing, clone the hell out the 3 mothers I had, aquired the purple kush and flowered. Bubba haze dropped pollen on everything in the room.


I have resently, in the last couple of weeks re-aquired the original non-herming cut that I gave to one of my friends...

 

[Uncle Remus]

I also having been thinking of making some S1's of my wicked C99 mom...But instead of stressing, I was looking the Colladial Silver (whatever) route...Now I am pretty much a complete and total newbie in regards to genetics and crossing so I hope this might have some valid points

After reading this post, and reading some of the reamrks about selfing and s1's, then selfing s2's, s3's, ect and the problems with pheno variations I kinda thought of a different approach to this

Instead of selfing EACH generation into itself, why not self your mom and collect as much excess pollen as possible...Grow out the S1's and instead of selfing that generation, pollinate it with the first batch of pollen...Since yoiu are pollinating with your original (mom's) batch of pollen into your S1's (not the S1's femmed pollen), wouldn't that help to keep as much of the mother plants original traits intact?

Now simply go down the line with each new generation and pollinate using your original pollen...Seems like this woud keep variations to a minimum??? Seems like a more stable method then (back)selfing each new gen of S's into each other and opening the window to even more pheno variation

Am I explaining this right or do I need to redo this when I'm a little more sober

 

[Aerokush101]

Well I be damn Uncle Remus, that's a great idear! How did you come up with that one? Actually, that sounds excellent, all you have to do now is... do it. You have a plan, work it.

 

[suzycremecheese]

Instead of selfing EACH generation into itself, why not self your mom and collect as much excess pollen as possible...Grow out the S1's and instead of selfing that generation, pollinate it with the first batch of pollen...Since yoiu are pollinating with your original (mom's) batch of pollen into your S1's (not the S1's femmed pollen), wouldn't that help to keep as much of the mother plants original traits intact?

Now simply go down the line with each new generation and pollinate using your original pollen...Seems like this woud keep variations to a minimum??? Seems like a more stable method then (back)selfing each new gen of S's into each other and opening the window to even more pheno variation

Am I explaining this right or do I need to redo this when I'm a little more sober

That's exactly what I was thinking uncle remus... and I think it is pretty close to what I said back in post #26

A better option for achieving total homozygosity, assuming it is possible, would be...
-make the S1
-back cross one of the S1 offspring to the reversed mother.
-repeat this as long as you feel like you're getting somewhere.

I think I was saying this in reference to making a homozygous plant now that I think about it... Good idea UR.

I think the only difference between the two goals would be the selection imposed by the breeder. If you keep selecting plants that are going homozygous and crossing them back to the reversed mom then you'll be moving towards homozygosity... probably unsuccessfully... whereas if you keep selecting plants that look like the mother you will going in the direction you desire.

I would suggest focusing on as few traits as possible during the selection process.

Do you think Frank ever could have imagined a "suzy cremecheese" talking to an "uncle remus" over the "internet" about this topic in the year 2008? I mean I know he was a genius and had a great imagination but do you think he could ever have imagined this? long live FZ...

 

[peps1]

Hello guys and girls (better not call anyone "bro")

Finding this really interesting, but a lot of the theory/conjecture/facts here are based around hybrid clone only S1s'.

But..............what if we are talking about taking a homozygous land-race S1 which was selfed to make S2, will the progeny and their progeny be different from most representatives of the land-race?

 

[suzycremecheese]

homozygous land-race S1

I think the terms "homozygous" and "land race" conflict with each other a bit. I believe the typical land race has variation in it. That's why they've survived as long as they have.

 

[basilfarmer]

og kush is an s1 of chem 91

that gave me a whole new respect for selfing, but i still don't care for selfing in general

it's not clones in seeds, as many have already said, what is though are artificial seeds... ....clones in seeds, and can be stored long term

which would solve the 'losing vigor issue' of clones, since they would only be popped to grow more tissue for a new phase of articials before the seeds expire.... ie, they would still be very 'young' plants with vigor 70 years later

would also solve mailing & keeping alive issues

Chimera has done the most work into this technology as it applies to cannabis

its been in the 'normal' plant industry for years and is not that impossible, but i know of nobody doing it, the day DIY apparatus is available will be a good day indeed, but as far as seedbanks carrying clonebeads, it won't happen for legal reasons, this is much more illegal than seeds

 

[englishrick]

id vote if i could......

good to see you basil

i also have a intrest in S1 or selfing projects only because of OgKush being an S1......and also ECSD is a product of a "selfing" project......

 

[basilfarmer]

hey Rick hope all is well on your side of the pond!

this vote 2008 signature is starting to annoy me even

don't worry folks its gone in 2 days

 

[Leonidas]

Shit bro 6 months for one plant , That banner is fine by me . Zoo