Round Infinity

[BOMBAYCAT]

Damn that looks almost good enough to taste. I'm sure the bugs will like it.

 

[Avinash.miles]

Damn that looks almost good enough to taste. I'm sure the bugs will like it.

smells like spicy salad dressing
hopefully the bugs won't like it and it will kill / dispel them

 

[Vaporizzando192]

what a wonderful job u do Avinash, i am really impressed...and to improve myself i need to learn more about EMs...but one question first : if i use AACT and some Endomycorrhizae Ectomycorrhizae Trichoderma & Bacillus inoculated at germination do i need to use this EM-1 or 5 too??

i dont understand if are they different or not

thx

 

[Avinash.miles]

what a wonderful job u do Avinash, i am really impressed...and to improve myself i need to learn more about EMs...but one question first : if i use AACT and some Endomycorrhizae Ectomycorrhizae Trichoderma & Bacillus inoculated at germination do i need to use this EM-1 or 5 too??

i dont understand if are they different or not

thx

i would
the "em consortia" is diverse and unique and (iirc)does not fall under the categories of endo or ecto mycos - em brews do not need to be aerated, so they are not added to aact's usually, but it can be done because many of the em consortia are facultative - can live with or without O2 - for fermenting the anaerobic is best

imo there is no good reason NOT to be using EM's or making your own lacto culture serum to make fermented plant extracts (fpe's)

some weed growers are anti-trichoderma, but i think the stuff is gold when used right (not too much!)
thanks for the kind words

 

[Vaporizzando192]

i would
the "em consortia" is diverse and unique and (iirc)does not fall under the categories of endo or ecto mycos - em brews do not need to be aerated, so they are not added to aact's usually, but it can be done because many of the em consortia are facultative - can live with or without O2 - for fermenting the anaerobic is best

imo there is no good reason NOT to be using EM's or making your own lacto culture serum to make fermented plant extracts (fpe's)

some weed growers are anti-trichoderma, but i think the stuff is gold when used right (not too much!)
thanks for the kind words

u are an extraordinary caregiver Literally...thanks for ur response.
It is a little bit clearer now for me about EM, so they are different than others endos and ectos bcz coming from ANAEROBIC world...ok... it start to make a sense to me...with them u can do FPE and the protection stuff with chilies&garlic...that sound really interesting to me!

i have to go in deep with this topic

what is going on trichodermas ?? i did not know that...why anti?

 

[Avinash.miles]

tricho can aggressively dominate soils if it really gets going, can outcompete other beneficials - we are going for diversity in the soil...

 

[Seaf0ur]

u are an extraordinary caregiver Literally...thanks for ur response.
It is a little bit clearer now for me about EM, so they are different than others endos and ectos bcz coming from ANAEROBIC world...ok... it start to make a sense to me...with them u can do FPE and the protection stuff with chilies&garlic...that sound really interesting to me!

i have to go in deep with this topic

what is going on trichodermas ?? i did not know that...why anti?

There is more life in a spoonful of good soil than all the fish in the ocean. The interactions are complex and balance is a key.

Hes referring to me. I dont like tricho.

I will preface by saying that tricho is beneficial.


however

Endo is a fungus that is much MORE effective at being beneficial...

Now, endo requires roots to survive on.

Tricho can survive in the absence of living roots and thus propagates faster than endo.

Tricho can also survive by eating other fungi (like endo)

In my opinion, you're wasting the endo, as the tricho will eat it.
If you're using a product with tricho in it, it is likely that, over time, you will have nothing but tricho anyways.

Also look at spore counts... your endo/ecto/arbuscular/ericoid mycorrhizal are infinitesimal in amounts of spore per gram compared to tricho which will dominate the mix from moment one.

That said, I recycle my soil and do a limited-till situation where my new roots grow straight through the old, spore filled, ones...

I only use pro-mix pur which is 100% Glomus intraradices endomycorrhizae

If I did not recycle in this way, I would likely find a bucket of just 100% tricho, and not try to fool myself with a jar listing other fungi....

If you toss soil often, its likely the primary benefit you see is the faster tricho... it all depends on recycling soil.


To those interested, the difference between the pro-mix pur G & P is that the G is on perlite as a granule, and the P is in bentonite as a clay powder
I prefer the clay as I hate perlite in favor of rice hulls and buckwheat hulls... but thats another story.

I also hate guanos... in fact... I dont care for most things.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...l=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=pro-mix+pur

 

[LostTribe]

recent rosin press on the short circuit/(futurama obscure character) hand press from best value;
View Image
not bad - lots of second squishes yielding pretty good

View Image
^ "EM5" fermented plant extract using em1/lacto vinegar and everclear with garlic ginger and hot hot peppers from the garden
for anti-pest applications

Yummmmmm! I would eat the shit out of that!

 

[Avinash.miles]

c4, u aint the ONLY one who suggests against using tricho in ganja soil..... but yes, i take your advice to heart most times for sure

ihad heard the thing about trich being aggressive before - but so far i perceive the benefits to outweigh the risks

 

[Avinash.miles]

link to the em5 recipe i used:
http://www.teraganix.com/EM5-Receipe-s/260.htm

 

[Ganoderma]

When you guys say tricho, do you mean trichoderma? tricho being short for trichoderma?

 

[Avinash.miles]

yes, ganoderma, thanks for that clarification

 

[Ganoderma]

in fact... I dont care for most things.

How about a couple bowls, would you care for that ?

 

[Ganoderma]

tricho can aggressively dominate soils if it really gets going, can outcompete other beneficials - we are going for diversity in the soil...

Trich-o-treat

 

[Avinash.miles]

Trich-o-treat

for real;
i find it especially helpful with preventing damping off of seedlings
i just put a pinch of tricho dust on top of the germination media (usually expaning peat jiffy pellet or rockwool cube)

 

[Vaporizzando192]

There is more life in a spoonful of good soil than all the fish in the ocean. The interactions are complex and balance is a key.

Hes referring to me. I dont like tricho.

I will preface by saying that tricho is beneficial.


however

Endo is a fungus that is much MORE effective at being beneficial...

Now, endo requires roots to survive on.

Tricho can survive in the absence of living roots and thus propagates faster than endo.

Tricho can also survive by eating other fungi (like endo)

In my opinion, you're wasting the endo, as the tricho will eat it.
If you're using a product with tricho in it, it is likely that, over time, you will have nothing but tricho anyways.

Also look at spore counts... your endo/ecto/arbuscular/ericoid mycorrhizal are infinitesimal in amounts of spore per gram compared to tricho which will dominate the mix from moment one.

That said, I recycle my soil and do a limited-till situation where my new roots grow straight through the old, spore filled, ones...

I only use pro-mix pur which is 100% Glomus intraradices endomycorrhizae

If I did not recycle in this way, I would likely find a bucket of just 100% tricho, and not try to fool myself with a jar listing other fungi....

If you toss soil often, its likely the primary benefit you see is the faster tricho... it all depends on recycling soil.


To those interested, the difference between the pro-mix pur G & P is that the G is on perlite as a granule, and the P is in bentonite as a clay powder
I prefer the clay as I hate perlite in favor of rice hulls and buckwheat hulls... but thats another story.

I also hate guanos... in fact... I dont care for most things.

View Image

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...l=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=pro-mix+pur

sorry to answer u in late but i need time to understand and think about things

first of all it is a big pleasure to write or read directly to or from you....many times i was inspired by ur words here...but for sure am not the only one.

i appreciate once again ur words after reading u carefully

let me detailed to make a clear point to me (if Avinash does not mind about my word-invasion in his thread)

here what contain the product i bought :

Endomycorrhizae
Glomus clarum
G. intraradices
G. mosseae
G. deserticola
G. monosporus
G. brasilianum
G. aggregatum
Gigaspora margareta
(1.2×10^4 spores/kg)

Ectomycorrhizae
Rhizopogon amylpogon
R. fulvigleba
R. rubescans
R. villosuli
Laccarria laccata
Pisolithus tinctorius
Scleroderma spp
(5.0×10^7 spores/kg)

Bacillus
Bacillus subtilis
B. amyloliquefaciens
B. licheniformis
(each at 1.2×10^9 cfu/kg)
B. brevis
B. cirulans
B. coagulans
B. firmus
B. halodenitrificans
B. laterosporus
B. megaterium
B. mycoides
B. pasteuri
B. polymyxa
(each at 7×10^8 cfu/kg)

Trichoderma
Trichoderma hamatum
T. harzianum
T. koningii
T. longibrachiatum
T. reesei
(each at 1.3×10^8 cfu/kg)

regarding the numbers (u warmly suggest me to mind) i dont understand if Tricos are in majority or not...unfortunately they are all mixed in the product so i cannot use them separately...what u think about this ratio ?

about Endos, as u wrote, they require roots to survive and Tricos can survive without roots but can eat Endos and others fungi...so following this reasoning is it better to use them ONLY when there are developed roots ?? or if i use them in germination time am I wasting Mycos? (bcz they need roots)...when is better to use?

more : HOW to use them properly ? just mix with the soil or add to my AACT in the beginning of the process??

i did not get properly the meaning of ur words about recycled soil and fungi (am not mothertongue)

and unfortunately i cannot buy in my country the Pro-Mix u linked

thx u sooo much

p.s. bad things about Guano? can u go a bit in deep?...just to understand a little more this complex interactions trying to point the key-balance

 

[Avinash.miles]

about Endos, as u wrote, they require roots to survive and Tricos can survive without roots but can eat Endos and others fungi...so following this reasoning is it better to use them ONLY when there are developed roots ?? or if i use them in germination time am I wasting Mycos? (bcz they need roots)...when is better to use? i use tricho early on and less as time goes on

more : HOW to use them properly ? just mix with the soil or add to my AACT in the beginning of the process?? yes both

i did not get properly the meaning of ur words about recycled soil and fungi (am not mothertongue)

and unfortunately i cannot buy in my country the Pro-Mix u linked

thx u sooo much

p.s. bad things about Guano? can u go a bit in deep?...just to understand a little more this complex interactions trying to point the key-balance

people don't like guano because its unsustainably harvested and sometimes isn't even guano....
and more im sure, can't remember, if i use the stuff it's at low low levels, kind of like if/when i use bone meal/blood meal (which both work GREAT but are industrial byproducts of meat industry which is particularly gnarly in america)

 

[Seaf0ur]

sorry to answer u in late but i need time to understand and think about things

first of all it is a big pleasure to write or read directly to or from you....many times i was inspired by ur words here...but for sure am not the only one.

i appreciate once again ur words after reading u carefully

let me detailed to make a clear point to me (if Avinash does not mind about my word-invasion in his thread)

here what contain the product i bought :

Endomycorrhizae
Glomus clarum
G. intraradices
G. mosseae
G. deserticola
G. monosporus
G. brasilianum
G. aggregatum
Gigaspora margareta
(1.2×10^4 spores/kg)

Ectomycorrhizae
Rhizopogon amylpogon
R. fulvigleba
R. rubescans
R. villosuli
Laccarria laccata
Pisolithus tinctorius
Scleroderma spp
(5.0×10^7 spores/kg)

Bacillus
Bacillus subtilis
B. amyloliquefaciens
B. licheniformis
(each at 1.2×10^9 cfu/kg)
B. brevis
B. cirulans
B. coagulans
B. firmus
B. halodenitrificans
B. laterosporus
B. megaterium
B. mycoides
B. pasteuri
B. polymyxa
(each at 7×10^8 cfu/kg)

Trichoderma
Trichoderma hamatum
T. harzianum
T. koningii
T. longibrachiatum
T. reesei
(each at 1.3×10^8 cfu/kg)

regarding the numbers (u warmly suggest me to mind) i dont understand if Tricos are in majority or not...unfortunately they are all mixed in the product so i cannot use them separately...what u think about this ratio ?

about Endos, as u wrote, they require roots to survive and Tricos can survive without roots but can eat Endos and others fungi...so following this reasoning is it better to use them ONLY when there are developed roots ?? or if i use them in germination time am I wasting Mycos? (bcz they need roots)...when is better to use?

more : HOW to use them properly ? just mix with the soil or add to my AACT in the beginning of the process??

i did not get properly the meaning of ur words about recycled soil and fungi (am not mothertongue)

and unfortunately i cannot buy in my country the Pro-Mix u linked

thx u sooo much

p.s. bad things about Guano? can u go a bit in deep?...just to understand a little more this complex interactions trying to point the key-balance

I recycle my soil indefinitely.... for years.
When I moved, I needed a bigger truck just for trash cans of soil.
I chop the stems and leave the rootballs alone, only digging the smallest hole possible to transplant into.
My fungi stay alive and the new roots have spores to grow into all over the old roots... its a system that strengthens itself over time.

If I used a different method, where I threw away rootballs for some reason, I might even prefer tricho because it does act faster... so take that into consideration.

I make my own inoculations using cooked rice in a wooden box with a cloth top buried just under the surface of a grassy patch to "catch" beneficial microorganisms and fungi naturally directly from the soil, but I do almost everything in the old ways.
(always grassland, forest has different microbes)

As far as using it, irrespective of what the containers say, dont bother trying to "water in" mycos... its nearly entirely wasteful.

Instead, dust the roots directly at transplant time for maximum benefit. A dusting on a emerging taproot of an opening seed is also recommended.

*note* Glomus intraradices is also known as Rhizophagus irregularis

On guanos... the harvesting is terrible for the cave ecosystem, any elemental benefits can be found elsewhere and cheaper at that, there are potential pathogenic concerns and much like everything else these days, it circles the world on container ships before it gets to you.

I prefer to take what is around me, compost or ferment that and use the elements I already have here instead of shipping everything around when I can avoid it.

If I had many caves of birds or bats nearby, I might go collect some, but the industry made from guano processing is harmful to the ecosystem.

Also... on what Miles said, that bone and blood meal is the leftovers of McDonalds cows congealed dried and ground into powder...

I use fish meal and fish bone meal... I'd rather have a lil excess mercury coming from the ocean compared to all the steroids and antibiotics and other shit that gets pumped into the cheap meat...

 

[Avinash.miles]

everything is cut, rained early yesterday morning, and we saw it coming so i cut them late the nite before
scissor season

 

[who dat is]

We got just a little bit of rain yesterday afternoon/early evening. I still have a GG4 and the Black Lime Reserve out there. Just shook them around a good bit and pulled some of the most obvious dead or dying fan leaves off.

I bet you have your work cut out for you