roots organics potting soil adding lime

[TrichCrazy5280]

Honestly i thing that plants crave both synthetic and organic food. I am curious to find out more about how permeable the line between TLO and synthetics is. I was previously under the impression that chemical fertilizers kill biological life especially in container pots, so it was pointless to inoculate your soils. I also in the past thought there was no need for biological soil activity if i am using instantly available forms of nutrients/food. Now i like the idea of the plant having some soil food and the means to digest it and instantly forms so it can get what it wants. Kinda like us eating food for nutrients but taking vitamins to supplement what we dont get but kinda visa versa. Besides all that just inoculating and maintaining your soils bacteria/fungi levels its a great preventive against pathogens. I just wonder if my salt based nutrients are creating medium environment my micro herds wont thrive in. Id hate to be wasting time and money on teas,etc if its a waste.

I want to start a thread asking peoples experiences with growing TLO in sealed co2 enriched environments. If you take an environment and push the co2 levels to unnatural heights can you expect TLO to keep up with that demand? I would be very curious to know more about that. I would bet you would have to supplement the plants with additional food but would a guano tea/molasses for example be enough for their appetite?

 

[theother]

Honestly i thing that plants crave both synthetic and organic food. I am curious to find out more about how permeable the line between TLO and synthetics is. I was previously under the impression that chemical fertilizers kill biological life especially in container pots, so it was pointless to inoculate your soils. I also in the past thought there was no need for biological soil activity if i am using instantly available forms of nutrients/food. Now i like the idea of the plant having some soil food and the means to digest it and instantly forms so it can get what it wants. Kinda like us eating food for nutrients but taking vitamins to supplement what we dont get but kinda visa versa. Besides all that just inoculating and maintaining your soils bacteria/fungi levels its a great preventive against pathogens. I just wonder if my salt based nutrients are creating medium environment my micro herds wont thrive in. Id hate to be wasting time and money on teas,etc if its a waste.

I want to start a thread asking peoples experiences with growing TLO in sealed co2 enriched environments. If you take an environment and push the co2 levels to unnatural heights can you expect TLO to keep up with that demand? I would be very curious to know more about that. I would bet you would have to supplement the plants with additional food but would a guano tea/molasses for example be enough for their appetite?

Based on my experiences over the years I think there is a big place for tlo based practices in any soilless/soil garden. I did have a better experience running coco semi sterile (sm90) and no teas or orgsnic food sources. It's just so fucking wet! No dry cycle skip the organics. Peat and obviously soil definitely benefit in my experience.

I have seen some interesting stuff lately. By keeping the microbes happy (no runoff) I had a better run than following synthetic rules and getting runoff every feed. The runoff plummeted the ph by washing out the charge. I found I had to feed much more often to nurse and the run with the out of whack ph. The synthetic nutes are definitely still available based on the ph of the nutrient solution. The difference was definitely that the microbes and soil amendments were not picking up the slack and doing there thing with the low ph.

Seems to me it's totally possible to completely meet both needs. I do not believe that the synthetics harm the micro herd appreciably. If you get salt buildup sure, but most of us are feeding reasonable quantities of clean nutes. Studies on soil biology and chem frets are gonna reflect a much lower grade of fert than we are using. Say what you want about the hydro industry and the snake oil boosters, but the frets themselves are top notch. I'm sure the tlo crowd would have some dissenting opinions and of course you are gonna be making a compromise, but on the whole id say it's a have your cake and eat it situation.

Can't comment on tlo in a sealed room, when I did tlo it was always air cooled. My experience with co2 makes me think it would be okay though. I don't really feel like an underfed plant is worse in co2. It seems kind of Ike they just won't do the super fast blow up you can get from the co2. IME if there is a limiting factor they just go slower. As opposed to nutes, which if fed above the needs of the plants just wreck shit. You should start that thread, I would love to hear what people have to say.

 

[TedNugget]

How do you like the roots organic soil? Which one do you use? Any critters in it?

I use their "Original Potting Soil". I love it.
You definitely need to add nutrients to it though. I don't have to add much of anything during veg, I start adding nutes as soon as I switch to bloom.

And no, I haven't had any problems with any type of critters.
I did get fungus gnats from that "VermiFire" brand soil, but that's from a totally different company... I have never had a problem with any type of critters from the Roots Organic soil. But it also helps that the hydro shop takes good care of their soils. They are never ever left outside or things like that. They store their bags of soil properly. Any bag of soil from any manufacturer can get critters if the store leaves the bags sitting outside for any period of time...

 

[theother]

I use their "Original Potting Soil". I love it.
You definitely need to add nutrients to it though. I don't have to add much of anything during veg, I start adding nutes as soon as I switch to bloom.

And no, I haven't had any problems with any type of critters.
I did get fungus gnats from that "VermiFire" brand soil, but that's from a totally different company... I have never had a problem with any type of critters from the Roots Organic soil. But it also helps that the hydro shop takes good care of their soils. They are never ever left outside or things like that. They store their bags of soil properly. Any bag of soil from any manufacturer can get critters if the store leaves the bags sitting outside for any period of time...

Holy fuck! That vermifire is making my life hell! About 1/4 of the veg is in it. Definitely is a heavier mic than roots original. Honestly aurora ftw! That roots is just flat out a good soil to work with. The veg dries at different rates between the two and because of the fungus gnats in the vermi I am way careful of overwatering. Kind of a double fuck me situation because the BTI i toppdressed everything with isn't that effective in the vermifire since it never needs water. Kind of thinking the vermi plants might not make it to the final transplant. They would do fine once up sized to the final container with roots but I am suspect of the root development in it. Will know when I pull them out in a bit.

 

[TedNugget]

Theother - as far as my beneficials, I use a number of different things. I usually always mix a little of that Alaskan Humus right into my soil (p,us usually a bit of earthworm castings too). Then I usually brew a tea at least once or twice per cycle using the EWC and Alaskan humus.
I have a big can of mycorrhizae by Plant Success (the granular stuff). It's real cheap and Plant Success is the same company that makes the "Orca" and "Great White" products. The granular form is just way cheaper...
I also use that Microbe Brew from Fox Farms as well as a free bottle of Voodoo Juice from advanced nutrients and I also have some Zho from botanicare that I got for free. I like free. Free is good! lol

Out of those that i listed above, the Plant Success Granual stuff seems to work as well as any of the others do and it is the cheapest option for soil. Its so easy to use too, just yake the can and sprinkle it into your soil when mixing or transplanting. I really like Plant Success's "Orca" product for hydro & aeroponics.

I am planning on trying that "Mike O'Rizey" from that Plant Revolution. Looks like a good product. Also, check out the site Kelp4Less. They sell a nice mycorrhizae mix for a good price, p,us lots of other good dry/powdered organic nutrients for soil. You could mix up one hell of a super soil from that site...

How does that Mycos and Azos stuff work? I've wanted to try those but decided not to because I wanted a variety of micro life and those only contained 1 form each. But I've also heard that using only 1 form of the mycorrhizae can actually be more beneficial than using a variety. I guess I will have to do a side by side to see for myself huh?

What do you guys recommend for your micro life? Which product has produced the best results for you?

 

[theother]

Theother - as far as my beneficials, I use a number of different things. I usually always mix a little of that Alaskan Humus right into my soil (p,us usually a bit of earthworm castings too). Then I usually brew a tea at least once or twice per cycle using the EWC and Alaskan humus.
I have a big can of mycorrhizae by Plant Success (the granular stuff). It's real cheap and Plant Success is the same company that makes the "Orca" and "Great White" products. The granular form is just way cheaper...
I also use that Microbe Brew from Fox Farms as well as a free bottle of Voodoo Juice from advanced nutrients and I also have some Zho from botanicare that I got for free. I like free. Free is good! lol

Out of those that i listed above, the Plant Success Granual stuff seems to work as well as any of the others do and it is the cheapest option for soil. Its so easy to use too, just yake the can and sprinkle it into your soil when mixing or transplanting. I really like Plant Success's "Orca" product for hydro & aeroponics.

I am planning on trying that "Mike O'Rizey" from that Plant Revolution. Looks like a good product. Also, check out the site Kelp4Less. They sell a nice mycorrhizae mix for a good price, p,us lots of other good dry/powdered organic nutrients for soil. You could mix up one hell of a super soil from that site...

How does that Mycos and Azos stuff work? I've wanted to try those but decided not to because I wanted a variety of micro life and those only contained 1 form each. But I've also heard that using only 1 form of the mycorrhizae can actually be more beneficial than using a variety. I guess I will have to do a side by side to see for myself huh?

What do you guys recommend for your micro life? Which product has produced the best results for you?

Far as teas go I feel I have had the best success with simple (humus, carbs, liquid or leached guano). I have tried some of the ready made teas and feel I end up with lockouts from them. For mychroriza I have used great white for years but am considering changing that. It's expensive stuff. I will look at the plant success. Someone was telling me about white widow, talking about the particular strains present in it being beneficial in flowering. I got respect for the guy saying it so think I will give it a go.

I'm sort of back and forth on adding organics into a soil that will be fed synthetics. Gonna not add anything but dolomite this time and see if that allows me to get runoff and keep the ph up. If that is successful I will start playing around with amending at transplant. I can tell by watching the plants when the micro herd is working. It was clear that when the ph plummeted the micro herd suffered substantially. Didn't really hurt the availability of much of the synthetic though. Really it looked like a lot of my soilless gardens have looked.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Based on my experiences over the years I think there is a big place for tlo based practices in any soilless/soil garden. I did have a better experience running coco semi sterile (sm90) and no teas or orgsnic food sources. It's just so fucking wet! No dry cycle skip the organics. Peat and obviously soil definitely benefit in my experience.

I have seen some interesting stuff lately. By keeping the microbes happy (no runoff) I had a better run than following synthetic rules and getting runoff every feed. The runoff plummeted the ph by washing out the charge. I found I had to feed much more often to nurse and the run with the out of whack ph. The synthetic nutes are definitely still available based on the ph of the nutrient solution. The difference was definitely that the microbes and soil amendments were not picking up the slack and doing there thing with the low ph.

Seems to me it's totally possible to completely meet both needs. I do not believe that the synthetics harm the micro herd appreciably. If you get salt buildup sure, but most of us are feeding reasonable quantities of clean nutes. Studies on soil biology and chem frets are gonna reflect a much lower grade of fert than we are using. Say what you want about the hydro industry and the snake oil boosters, but the frets themselves are top notch. I'm sure the tlo crowd would have some dissenting opinions and of course you are gonna be making a compromise, but on the whole id say it's a have your cake and eat it situation.

Can't comment on tlo in a sealed room, when I did tlo it was always air cooled. My experience with co2 makes me think it would be okay though. I don't really feel like an underfed plant is worse in co2. It seems kind of Ike they just won't do the super fast blow up you can get from the co2. IME if there is a limiting factor they just go slower. As opposed to nutes, which if fed above the needs of the plants just wreck shit. You should start that thread, I would love to hear what people have to say.

Dont get my wrong, organics is really where my heart is but unfortunately the industry and people i worked for were all looking for the the highest yields in soil which lead me to my current techniques. Trying to keep overhead low was one of the my main factors. I love TLO and i have hands down grown the best tasting herb i have ever smoked that way. I want to get back to making teas, i agree with Somas old secret recipe for making the best tasting herb, BAT GUANO!!

I agree about the coco thing, I tried the slacker moisture in the past wanting to try coco but did not want to be watering every day, wanted it be similar to my soil runs. Bad idea. The people i see around here that have the best results in coco use VERY aerated mixes and top drip feed 2-3 times a day. That is not my style of growing. But ya that shit can really hold some water.

I am interested more about your theory of washing out the charge, nutrients, microbes from your soil by getting runoff? Is this a new style that people are using? I was always under the impression you want to water thoroughly to push out the old while refreshing with new nutrients. I amend enough dolomite into my soil that i would never be concerned about washing it out of the soil. I also thought you wanted to water till runoff so you ensure you are getting oxygen to the roots at the bottom of the pot because when we water is the only time they get to breath. I am curious.

I could have sworn i read in "teaming for microbes" that chemical fertilizers have effects on soil biology. I could def be mistaken though, ill bust it back out and see what i can find. Sometimes the tall tales and the articles I read sometimes seem to blend together and i need constant refreshers to make sure in not full of it

From experience i think that plants that are under high levels or co2 and temps absolutely use more nutrients. I saw it first hand and had to up feeds to keep plants from going deficient but "the kind" is not as strong as i first thought and is formulated to get best results from using it pretty much every watering. If you look at Canna products they have two feeding suggestions. non co2 and accelerated growing spaces. I think all nutrient companies should provide this type of information. In my opinion an underfed plant in co2 is going to show more extreme deficiencies much faster then a non enriched room. This is just from experience.

I use their "Original Potting Soil". I love it.
You definitely need to add nutrients to it though. I don't have to add much of anything during veg, I start adding nutes as soon as I switch to bloom.

And no, I haven't had any problems with any type of critters.
I did get fungus gnats from that "VermiFire" brand soil, but that's from a totally different company... I have never had a problem with any type of critters from the Roots Organic soil. But it also helps that the hydro shop takes good care of their soils. They are never ever left outside or things like that. They store their bags of soil properly. Any bag of soil from any manufacturer can get critters if the store leaves the bags sitting outside for any period of time...

I agree, for the price we pay per bag of soil it should be stored properly. Another great benefit of using this Nectar soil is they DO store it inside and its fresh. Around here in Denver most places buy in huge bulk and they sit outside for got knows how long. Thanks for the update, maybe ill go back and check it out again in the future.

Holy fuck! That vermifire is making my life hell! About 1/4 of the veg is in it. Definitely is a heavier mic than roots original. Honestly aurora ftw! That roots is just flat out a good soil to work with. The veg dries at different rates between the two and because of the fungus gnats in the vermi I am way careful of overwatering. Kind of a double fuck me situation because the BTI i toppdressed everything with isn't that effective in the vermifire since it never needs water. Kind of thinking the vermi plants might not make it to the final transplant. They would do fine once up sized to the final container with roots but I am suspect of the root development in it. Will know when I pull them out in a bit.

I know the feeling man, that shit is strong too, that is why i used the vermisoil over the fire and i amend it with more #3 perlite. Its still lighter and more aerated then FFOF though. I think that Fire would be a good choice for filling up beds on large containers for outdoor plants though. I have 5 bags of the fire still that i have been using for houseplants and guess what those house plants have? Fungus gnats!!

Theother - as far as my beneficials, I use a number of different things. I usually always mix a little of that Alaskan Humus right into my soil (p,us usually a bit of earthworm castings too). Then I usually brew a tea at least once or twice per cycle using the EWC and Alaskan humus.
I have a big can of mycorrhizae by Plant Success (the granular stuff). It's real cheap and Plant Success is the same company that makes the "Orca" and "Great White" products. The granular form is just way cheaper...
I also use that Microbe Brew from Fox Farms as well as a free bottle of Voodoo Juice from advanced nutrients and I also have some Zho from botanicare that I got for free. I like free. Free is good! lol

Out of those that i listed above, the Plant Success Granual stuff seems to work as well as any of the others do and it is the cheapest option for soil. Its so easy to use too, just yake the can and sprinkle it into your soil when mixing or transplanting. I really like Plant Success's "Orca" product for hydro & aeroponics.

I am planning on trying that "Mike O'Rizey" from that Plant Revolution. Looks like a good product. Also, check out the site Kelp4Less. They sell a nice mycorrhizae mix for a good price, p,us lots of other good dry/powdered organic nutrients for soil. You could mix up one hell of a super soil from that site...

How does that Mycos and Azos stuff work? I've wanted to try those but decided not to because I wanted a variety of micro life and those only contained 1 form each. But I've also heard that using only 1 form of the mycorrhizae can actually be more beneficial than using a variety. I guess I will have to do a side by side to see for myself huh?

What do you guys recommend for your micro life? Which product has produced the best results for you?

honestly i am have never found a inoculate that has just blown me away. I have heard stories of people locally using this product and having mycelium growing on there smart pots. I have never had an opportunity show me that kind of results. I agree with what you said about single strains of the Mykos and Azos. I use those when i transplant and dust the root ball. Later on in the plants life about every 2-4 weeks ill use the great white in the water to try and bring a more diverse population. I think the best source for bacteria/fungi are from teas IMO. Have you guys ever kick started your compost by adding kelp, oatmeal etc to a container and letting it grow before making a tea? We did that in the past and i loved it because you get an actual view of the fungal strains that look like santas beard. You know without a doubt there is some activity going on. I also liked to do a combo of EWC and alaskan humus. I am not partial to one innoculant but i have just heard of local made product called RECHARGE that is made locally. It sounds cool and i like using local products so i might check that out.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Far as teas go I feel I have had the best success with simple (humus, carbs, liquid or leached guano). I have tried some of the ready made teas and feel I end up with lockouts from them. For mychroriza I have used great white for years but am considering changing that. It's expensive stuff. I will look at the plant success. Someone was telling me about white widow, talking about the particular strains present in it being beneficial in flowering. I got respect for the guy saying it so think I will give it a go.

I'm sort of back and forth on adding organics into a soil that will be fed synthetics. Gonna not add anything but dolomite this time and see if that allows me to get runoff and keep the ph up. If that is successful I will start playing around with amending at transplant. I can tell by watching the plants when the micro herd is working. It was clear that when the ph plummeted the micro herd suffered substantially. Didn't really hurt the availability of much of the synthetic though. Really it looked like a lot of my soilless gardens have looked.

I prefer to buy a soil that has been mixed with food and compost and has been "activated" already. If i was to go back to mixing my own soils like in the past i would make at least 6-12 months worth and have it stored so its pasteurized and the amendments are now available for the plant to absorb. I felt like mixing my own soils was great but most of the amendments i was spending money on would be beneficial but not readily available in the time frame that is needed. I could be wrong though.

So you are saying when your PH dropped you believed it to have effect on your beneficials? What made you think it was that and not that you had a slight lock out? Your synthetics are available in the water at the correct PH but if your soil ph is low is does not matter and wont be able to be absorbed. The soils ph overrides the water ph correct?

 

[dudebpeaceful]

I've had Roots Organic test as low as 5.1. I would test the soil first and adjust with dolomite lime. To test take mix 1 part soil to 2 parts RO water, wait an hour and test. I grow in 3 gallon pots and when you subtract the soil in the prior container I'm adding about 2.2 gallons. To this I've added 1 TBL dolomite (if soil test shows 5.5 - 6 range) and my ph on pour throughs is consistently in the 6.4 range. @ around $15 per 1.5 cubic feet you would expect the soil to be the proper ph range but that is usually never the case.

 

[dudebpeaceful]

These were 9 per, in 5's and I think I was giving them 1.25-1.3 gallons a piece. Too much runoff I think. It was just hard for me to judge how much runoff I was getting in the smart pots. Gonna knock it back to like under a gallon per and call it good. There is definitely a point of diminishing return with runoff. I had just never run soil that way and i was afraid I wasn't getting enough out. It was also kind of sketch getting the 3rd day out of them, sometimes fine, but other times they would feel too dry.

A good runoff ratio is about 20% of water going in coming out.

 

[theother]

Dont get my wrong, organics is really where my heart is but unfortunately the industry and people i worked for were all looking for the the highest yields in soil which lead me to my current techniques. Trying to keep overhead low was one of the my main factors. I love TLO and i have hands down grown the best tasting herb i have ever smoked that way. I want to get back to making teas, i agree with Somas old secret recipe for making the best tasting herb, BAT GUANO!!

I agree about the coco thing, I tried the slacker moisture in the past wanting to try coco but did not want to be watering every day, wanted it be similar to my soil runs. Bad idea. The people i see around here that have the best results in coco use VERY aerated mixes and top drip feed 2-3 times a day. That is not my style of growing. But ya that shit can really hold some water.

I am interested more about your theory of washing out the charge, nutrients, microbes from your soil by getting runoff? Is this a new style that people are using? I was always under the impression you want to water thoroughly to push out the old while refreshing with new nutrients. I amend enough dolomite into my soil that i would never be concerned about washing it out of the soil. I also thought you wanted to water till runoff so you ensure you are getting oxygen to the roots at the bottom of the pot because when we water is the only time they get to breath. I am curious.

I could have sworn i read in "teaming for microbes" that chemical fertilizers have effects on soil biology. I could def be mistaken though, ill bust it back out and see what i can find. Sometimes the tall tales and the articles I read sometimes seem to blend together and i need constant refreshers to make sure in not full of it

From experience i think that plants that are under high levels or co2 and temps absolutely use more nutrients. I saw it first hand and had to up feeds to keep plants from going deficient but "the kind" is not as strong as i first thought and is formulated to get best results from using it pretty much every watering. If you look at Canna products they have two feeding suggestions. non co2 and accelerated growing spaces. I think all nutrient companies should provide this type of information. In my opinion an underfed plant in co2 is going to show more extreme deficiencies much faster then a non enriched room. This is just from experience.



I agree, for the price we pay per bag of soil it should be stored properly. Another great benefit of using this Nectar soil is they DO store it inside and its fresh. Around here in Denver most places buy in huge bulk and they sit outside for got knows how long. Thanks for the update, maybe ill go back and check it out again in the future.



I know the feeling man, that shit is strong too, that is why i used the vermisoil over the fire and i amend it with more #3 perlite. Its still lighter and more aerated then FFOF though. I think that Fire would be a good choice for filling up beds on large containers for outdoor plants though. I have 5 bags of the fire still that i have been using for houseplants and guess what those house plants have? Fungus gnats!!



honestly i am have never found a inoculate that has just blown me away. I have heard stories of people locally using this product and having mycelium growing on there smart pots. I have never had an opportunity show me that kind of results. I agree with what you said about single strains of the Mykos and Azos. I use those when i transplant and dust the root ball. Later on in the plants life about every 2-4 weeks ill use the great white in the water to try and bring a more diverse population. I think the best source for bacteria/fungi are from teas IMO. Have you guys ever kick started your compost by adding kelp, oatmeal etc to a container and letting it grow before making a tea? We did that in the past and i loved it because you get an actual view of the fungal strains that look like santas beard. You know without a doubt there is some activity going on. I also liked to do a combo of EWC and alaskan humus. I am not partial to one innoculant but i have just heard of local made product called RECHARGE that is made locally. It sounds cool and i like using local products so i might check that out.

As far as washing out the charge I was referring to the dolomite. Maybe it's possible it leaked oute of the humates or whatever as well. The input from others in this thread leads me to think maybe I just got a batch with a low charge this time. I feel this will be corrected with the addition of more dolomite' and pretty much makes it not worth worrying about. It will be interesting if I can keep the "soil" look to the plants while still getting runoff.

I honestly expect I will be able to. In hindsight I believe I just started with too low of a ph in the medium and the actual downfall of the runoff was too weak of an ec. Seems the ec that worked with no runoff is much lower than an optimum ec with runoff.

Actually your take on enriched co2 levels and hunger could also be a contributing factor as well. I am going to start feeding 2 ec and see where that gets me. I did some leach tests of the media after they slowed way the fuck down in week 3 and found that I had between .3-.2 ec in the root zone. Definitely not enough in my opinion. Definitely worth remembering though that a leach test is gonna show much different numbers than just checking your runoff. It is a reasonable assumption that my runoff numbers would have looked like 1.4 ec and the runoff ph would have looked much different than the leach ph test did. IMO I like the leach tests for seein what is actually going on in the media.

As far as synthetics effecting organics, I am definitely no expert, that is a good place to start. But my opinion is at when we here Elaine Ingham talking about the effects of chem frets on soil biology she is referring to major AG practices. It is my suspicion that major ag is running much less clean (assume cheap sodium based ferts at high un phed concentrations). Again I am no expert, but I just can not imagine a guy growing 75k acres of lettuce using fancy potassium derived nutrients phed to exact specs. Again this whole viewpoint could be wrong. I am definitely re thinking the Ec's I feed in my own garden, and going higher. If this will have a negative effect on biology I do not know. I sincerely doubt it though. The other thing you have to consider is we are container gardening with one time use soils. Most of the anti synthetic pro biology talk is referring. to long term field management and it makes a lot of sense there. You can't really achieve runoff in the ground, ferts are going to build up and they are going to be sodium based and eventually whole fields will basically salt ball.

Like anything else I'm sure it's a comprise. Having done tlo for a lomg time I definitely do not see a difference in product between a good run of tlo and a good run of soil fed synthetics. I do notice a difference in hydro though. I also noticed a difference in coco on some cuts. I think it was probably do to it not being a good run though. Really if a good run tastes the same you have to ask yourself, what's the easiest way to get a good run.

 

[Team Microbe]

Little background, 5 gallon smart pots, roots organic potting soil, water only veg in 2 gallons with bloom salts the last week before transplant, veg is 1k MH bloom is 1k hps, room is sealed and co2 enriched, temps are 80-82 at flip and slowly decreasing. Nutes are GH flora 3 part with floro + and calimagic

Have had problems in the past where PH of medium would drop to like 5.5, pour through test showed like 100-150 PPM (@.5) in the root zone so I don't believe it was accumulated salts causing the drop. I ran a lot of runoff (it worked look at the salt accumulation LOL) but I think I washed the charge right out fairly quickly.

I am going to reduce the runoff (maybe run them off once a week instead of every feed). I am also going to up the EC of the feeds, and am debating on switching to feed 1/2 feed feed instead of feed water. Im gonna let the plants tell me about that.

My question is, how much lime should I add per 5 gallon smart pot. I was considering using both lime and roots organics "elemental" https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/ROEL9 I am not positive that the elemental will help hold up the PH but I do believe it will.

I was thinking of starting small, maybe a TBS of lime and a TBS of elemental per 5 gallon.

1/2 cup per cubic foot (7.5 gallons) so like 1/4 cup I'd say of lime per 5 gallons.


Not sure why you're mixing soil with a hydroponic mind set, but more power to you. In organic soil you don't worry about pH, PPM's, or any of that nature. Plants are allowed to reach full potential when all macro/micro nutrients & minerals are available in the soil, because their nutrient needs literally change by the hour - there's no way to know when to feed bloom nutes or when not to so we're taking a complete stab in the dark when we try to play God in agriculture. If you read the book Teaming with Microbes you'll get a better understanding of what I mean here, and suddenly gardening becomes fun because things are finally simplified when we see how the entire biological system works as a whole.

 

[theother]

1/2 cup per cubic foot (7.5 gallons) so like 1/4 cup I'd say of lime per 5 gallons.


Not sure why you're mixing soil with a hydroponic mind set, but more power to you. In organic soil you don't worry about pH, PPM's, or any of that nature. Plants are allowed to reach full potential when all macro/micro nutrients & minerals are available in the soil, because their nutrient needs literally change by the hour - there's no way to know when to feed bloom nutes or when not to so we're taking a complete stab in the dark when we try to play God in agriculture. If you read the book Teaming with Microbes you'll get a better understanding of what I mean here, and suddenly gardening becomes fun because things are finally simplified when we see how the entire biological system works as a whole.

I did tlo for years and found it really rewarding! At some point I switched to coco so I wouldn't have t move so much media, but have now found my way back to dirt so that is kind of not a benefit anymore. Fwiw I'm not unhappy at all with the quality of the salt grown nugs. I think my main goal with dirt and salts is to try and get the benefits of both. I will have to try tlo again now that I am running sealed. I believe some of the problems that I attributed to the tlo where actually air cooled environment issues to be honest.

 

[Team Microbe]

Nice brother, welcome back!

 

[theother]

A good runoff ratio is about 20% of water going in coming out.

Do you see much sagging as a result of getting the runoff? I never do in mid to late flower, but in veg I can see pretty clearly the difference between no runoff and full runoff, seems they sag for quite a bit longer afterwords.

I think runoff is necessary with synthetics, I just wonder if I should try runoff like once a week?

 

[NDNJohn]

Great info folks...thanks for sharing.

Respect
NDN

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Do you see much sagging as a result of getting the runoff? I never do in mid to late flower, but in veg I can see pretty clearly the difference between no runoff and full runoff, seems they sag for quite a bit longer afterwords.

I think runoff is necessary with synthetics, I just wonder if I should try runoff like once a week?

The only time i really see much sagging is when i let the plants get a little to dry in between watering. I am sure it seems silly to mention this but i cant tell you how many times i see peoples plants drier then what they should be, especially in veg. Dont let the soil completely dry out in between waterings, just the first inch or so should be dry.

I also notice my veg plants sag a lot at the end of the day and through the night but they stand back up when the lights come back on, but thats different i know.

Just fyi after i transpant into the final pot i do not fully saturate the soil, i use a little bit more water then i was using in the previous pot. I dont want to soak all the soil, i want to roots to grow into the drier soil and ill increase the amount of water as the plant ages and establishes a bigger root mass.

 

[theother]

The only time i really see much sagging is when i let the plants get a little to dry in between watering. I am sure it seems silly to mention this but i cant tell you how many times i see peoples plants drier then what they should be, especially in veg. Dont let the soil completely dry out in between waterings, just the first inch or so should be dry.

I also notice my veg plants sag a lot at the end of the day and through the night but they stand back up when the lights come back on, but thats different i know.

Just fyi after i transpant into the final pot i do not fully saturate the soil, i use a little bit more water then i was using in the previous pot. I dont want to soak all the soil, i want to roots to grow into the drier soil and ill increase the amount of water as the plant ages and establishes a bigger root mass.

Same for me, I see a lot of soil eg plants without much root growth at the top of the pot from basically under watering. That's what serp rates the men from the boys lol, seems like it's an art to transplant to a larger container size. I prefer to go from cups to completely full 2's and it's a bit of a headache. Much better than a million transplants though, life is short.

I still do see an effect from complete saturation to the point of runoff. They definitely sag longer than a plant that got sipped. At least in my garden it's always gonna be a balancing act. And fwiw I don't ever see it in mid to late flower. I suspect it may have something to do with root mass, but I see it in completely rooted out 2's before transplant so that doesn't totally make sense.

I've always suspected that plants in veg are just more sensitive to sag because they are photosynthesizing so much longer. I don't notice the morning and evening sag past like week 3 or flower. I'm guessing the same reason that goes away is the same reason I don't see the heavy water sag either.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Same for me, I see a lot of soil eg plants without much root growth at the top of the pot from basically under watering. That's what serp rates the men from the boys lol, seems like it's an art to transplant to a larger container size. I prefer to go from cups to completely full 2's and it's a bit of a headache. Much better than a million transplants though, life is short.

I still do see an effect from complete saturation to the point of runoff. They definitely sag longer than a plant that got sipped. At least in my garden it's always gonna be a balancing act. And fwiw I don't ever see it in mid to late flower. I suspect it may have something to do with root mass, but I see it in completely rooted out 2's before transplant so that doesn't totally make sense.

I've always suspected that plants in veg are just more sensitive to sag because they are photosynthesizing so much longer. I don't notice the morning and evening sag past like week 3 or flower. I'm guessing the same reason that goes away is the same reason I don't see the heavy water sag either.

You are correct, transplanting on time is so important. I like to plant my clones directly into one gallons personally and then onto their final pot. I used to step pot more but honestly never saw a huge benefit worth the extra time and money.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Also plants will sometimes begin to wilt if the mediums salt level is higher then the plants salt level.