Sorry thought of one other question, can you explain why the ph of nutrient solutions need be higher than hydro. That is something that has always nagged at me, they are the same salts, seems they would have the same range. The best explanation I have gotten is it's a compromise between soil biology comfort (near neutral) and the availability of the elements.
-
As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.
roots organics potting soil adding lime
- Thread starter theother
- Start date
Nectar for the gods Zeus Juice has kelp, Fulvic acid and Humic acid. They use bio-ag's fulvic & humid acids. Very good product!
Nectar For The Gods also makes a liquid lime called Olympus Up. It remains in the soil and acts as a pH buffer. works great to prevent pH drift as things leach out of your medium (from watering and organic decomposition etc).
Oh, I also wanted to add that I too got some crazy f'n fungus gnats from that VermiFire soil. It was by far the worst infestation of fungus gnats I've ever had... But I do like the soil. I still use mostly Roots Organic though. I add about 1/2 cup of dolomite lime per bag of soil.
Thanks for the input man, I am gonna have to start checking out this nectar of the gods stuff, it keeps coming up. I have seen it for years but never used anything from them.
Checked a couple roots organics bags with a leach test and everything was under 6. WTF, you would think it would be in their best interest to charge it up a little more! Is there some reason you guys can think of that they leave them that low?
The more I think about it the more it may have effected me. I am very curious what the same garden will look like with the soil PH in check.
So do you guys check each bag before and after adjustment to confirm it is correct or is it more of a just dump it and go thing.
Yeah I'd suggest using that Olympus Up if you want/need to adjust the soil pH in your potted plants now. Just water it in with your feelings/waterings. Unless you already have your own method of adjusting the pH then just go with that lol.
As far as the roots, I don't really check individual bags anymore. I kind of just have my method I follow and pH hasn't been an issue so I haven't had a need to really check it. I usually just add the same amount of dolomite lime to any soil brand/mix I get...
As far as the roots, I don't really check individual bags anymore. I kind of just have my method I follow and pH hasn't been an issue so I haven't had a need to really check it. I usually just add the same amount of dolomite lime to any soil brand/mix I get...
Honestly man I really didn't have a method to fix it during the run. Should have dealt with it, but didn't. I think that is one of the things that made soil seem kind of hit and miss to me. Hopefully a good buffering of dolomite combined with good good synthetic nute ratios and reasonable organic leach teas should be good, I am staying away from act for now. I used to be real serious about acts and had great results but an imperfect tea is worse than no tea at all, and currently I just don't seem to be putting the time and energy into the teas like I should. Really I was just using a pre packaged tea (bag of compost plus starter pouch) then dumbing in an unmeasured amount of molasses and a few glugs of buds well (liquid either bloom or grow guano) and bubbling it. I wasn't cleaning air stones as often as necessary or keeping things as clean as I should have.
I also think I am going to work a bit of calimagic into the schedule. Not a ton, but a dose maybe once a week until week 5 or 6. The calcium carbonate should help buffer whatever is washed out of the dirt buffer wise. I'm open to opinions on that though, really I have seen cal and mag defs at different times, but I honestly believe them to be ph related more than a true def' so maybe something like Olympus up would be a wiser choice.
I use both calcium carbonate (with magnesium) and the Olympus up. The NFTG line calls for a pH (of your feed/water) of 6.2-6.8 so I use the Olympus up to adjust the pH of the water before I feed, when i am running their line and use it in my waterings when using other nutrients too since certain nutrient break downs in the soil can lower pH over time. its probably nit totally necessary since i add in the dolomite to the soil but i do it anyway.
And I use calcium carbonate because I prefer it over calcium nitrate.
It's probably not necessary to use both but I'd much rather use the Olympus up than those chemical pH adjusters. I don't need any calcium additives when running the nectar stuff. It's loaded with all different types of calcium (I just use Epsom salt for magnesium when running their line).
I also was just given a bottle of "equilibrium" by Humboldt nutrients for my cal/mag. It has 12% calcium carbonate and 2% (available) magnesium plus other trace minerals etc. Those are nice high numbers. Seems like a good product so far...
And I use calcium carbonate because I prefer it over calcium nitrate.
It's probably not necessary to use both but I'd much rather use the Olympus up than those chemical pH adjusters. I don't need any calcium additives when running the nectar stuff. It's loaded with all different types of calcium (I just use Epsom salt for magnesium when running their line).
I also was just given a bottle of "equilibrium" by Humboldt nutrients for my cal/mag. It has 12% calcium carbonate and 2% (available) magnesium plus other trace minerals etc. Those are nice high numbers. Seems like a good product so far...
Interesting stuff! Notg is a hard line to get a feel for! I am definitely getting the feeling that it is geared for soil and is derived almost completely from calcium instead of potassium like all the other lines. Everything your saying makes sense, all the calcium will keep the media from having any chance of slipping down.
I may end up completely on the calcium band wagon eventually, for now I'm absolutely gonna lime all soil with 2 tbs per gallon of dolomite, and I am going to use calcium carbonate based cal mag. Gonna stick with the potassium derived synthetics for now, but if someone came out with a simple 3 part that was calcium derived I think I would be all over it.
I really do like the idea of a little of this and a little of that. By rotating things you have more margin for error, less chance of buildups. When everything comes from mono potassium phosphate you can definitely murder the ph of your media. Maybe a good compr for me would be normal synthetic 3 part, Olympus up, and normal potassium ph up combined, and keep the calcium carbonate cal mag in the mix. I'm a little bummed that the calimagic is a 5-1 cal to mag ratio, but I suspect it's because the calcium carbonate isn't as available as whatever potassium based cal source they use in the botanicare stuff (which is like 3-1 or 2.5-1
TrichCrazy5280
Member
Its amazing how much more nutrients plants can utilize in a good environment with co2, it was tough for me to accept as well.
Honestly i cant give you an exact reason. What i always thought was that in hydro you are growing in a neutral medium so lowering the ph of the solution will not effect the mediums ph like in soil. Soil(peat) tends to be an acidic medium itself.
NFTG has some good products for sure. Its real deal organics. Bloom Kaos is the shit.
yup 1/2 cup here too. Which Roots organics soil do you use? I havenet used them in a years. You like it and not finding and critters in it?
I have wondered the same thing about that. No i dont check it at all like that much anymore. I just add the dolomite like Ted at a 1/2cup per bag everytime. Works like a charm.
Yes Nectar is definatly for soil growers. You should see if you can get their soils they make anywhere near you. I have used it and its bomb. I just have to drive super far to get it though.
TrichCrazy5280
Member
The kind is mineral based with kelp. Its a really simple complete fertilizer for large applications where consistency and cleanliness are important. If you have an adequate environment you can just follow the bottle and your good to go. Plus its pretty damn affordable.
TrichCrazy5280
Member
How do you like the roots organic soil? Which one do you use? Any critters in it?
TrichCrazy5280
Member
After reminding myself of the nectar soil i just went ahead and ordered up 30 bags of their #4. They make it in small batches and has some nice goodies in it. Stoked
Gonna have to call around on the notg soil, might be able to get it at a big greenhouse store I drive by once in awhile. Think I'm gonna be pretty happy with the roots orgsnics potting soil with 1/2 cup of dolomite per bag. Is that where most of you guys are at with it? Also considering adding some elemental and maybe a tsp or two of this http://www.planetnatural.com/product/uprising-bloom/ mixed in as well. The potting soil is pretty strong as is, but coming out of 2's they should be able to take it. Figure getting a bit more in the root zone from the beginning cns only help as long as I don't miss the mark.
TrichCrazy5280
Member
Ya sounds like you got a perfect plan with the half cup. The soil in my opinion is not that huge of a variable. Only reason i decided too use it over vermisoil is possible fungus gnats. I switch up soils sometimes.
I am not very familiar with that uprising bloom, i would go on the low end of suggested rate if you do chose too. I personally like to keep the soil nutrients around the levels they come just because i am more relying on my bottles for the the food. I did use vermifire in the pat but i noticed it was pretty hot(4-5x's the amendments as the vermisoil) and caused a little burn after planting(even when they were already established plants).
I have used mixes like that in the past(rainbow mix) and they are cool but honestly IMO a lot of that nutrient wont be readily available for the plant to absorb unless its been activated in your soil. It will however be a nice food source for your micro herd if you inoculate your medium. It if it were me I would try and just change one thing about the soil mix then try that. But thats just me.
The reason i asked about the tubing is because every once and awhile the AC will go down at the warehouse(being replaced soon) and when it gets warm in the room you can smell a plasticy smell that i thought was coming from the black irrigation tubing. Hopefully that is not bad for the plants.
Well, time to go put in my two weeks notice at work. After 3 years their a new position has opened up and decied over the weekend to accept the new position even though it entails ANOTHER complete redesign of a warehouse grow space. Wish me luck!
Ya man, that smell could absolutely be the tubing. Off gassing is a nightmare! Honestly though if it was happening you would see it in the plants. I removed EVERYTHING that I thought could cause it from all areas. I still use the soft 3/4 tube for hand watering but it is stored in a mechanical room. I am real wary of pretty much anything plastic. I use a lot of wood and galvanized steel in my room builds. Also I run large amounts of air through fresh carbon recirc all the time. I no longer trust PVC or any ldpe at all.
I agree on the soil, the more I watch the more content I am that I will get the soil love that I need by buffering the soil and running smaller plants in the same size container. I got some of the greasy soil love this time but not as much as last time due to the straight gigantic size of the plants in 5's. They got damn near root bound mid way through after transition to 5's 10 days before flip. It was pretty unreal how well they rooted out those smart pots. I think if I was gonna keep doing it that way I would go up to 7's or even 10's. A lot of the lack of soil love more than likely came from the plummeting media ph though. No doubt micro heard does not enjoy 5.5 ph. Dolomite ftw, the runoff was just too much for the charge they had in there.
Really thinking I'm gonna leave that extra food out of the root zone the more I think about it.
Are you running any acts? If so what is your recipe? I have been using these for a couple years but am not satisfied with them anymore http://www.ehydro.net/?action=product&id=8493&cid=377 seems like I ended up with a lockout every time I would feed them. Maybe I'll just start again with the Alaskan humus, was using that years ago. Seems like those extreme teas would end up getting the media smelling funky, kind of like something had developed in the bag and kicked off an aneorobic dominant thing, lame. Probably my fault though, wasn't as diligent as I should have been at cleaning air stones and all that.
Also what myko are you guys using? I have done great white for years but someone recently was telling me why something like white widow (I think that is the one) would be moe beneficzl due to the bloom dominant nature of the species in there? I was on my way out the door at the time but am open to a change there.
Also thinking of mixing my nutes like 6-8 hours early and letting them bubble, I have been mixing at time of use for a minute because of the floro+. I think it will be fine though doubt funk will develop that quick. I feel Ike the extra do will be beneficial and also might get a clearer picture of ph also. Will be curious if the ph drifts far after sitting, would love to get some of the ph out out of the mix.
TrichCrazy5280
Member
When you say ACT are referring to a tea? I am not familiar with that acronym
But yes i have a lot of experience making teas, i have temporally stopped because with my room issues i did not want to put in the extra effort and $ when i knew i had much bigger problems.
If you want to learn about teas i would highly suggest buying the book "teaming for microbes" it goes into good detail on how to use and make teas the best way. IMO its better off not doing it unless you do it right because you dont want to introduce a anaerobic product into your medium and never should smell bad. Should smell really clean and good.
I use extreme gardening Mykos and Azos before planting.
WE were making fungal teas by kick starting our compost(teaming with microbes) for fungal teas for mid flower. that was fun
Act's are just aerated compost teas. Elaine Ingham is awesome! I have a friend that was super into it and would take her classes. I've gotten into it pretty heavy before and actually have disolved oxygen meter available to me. where I think I went wrong the last couple years was switching to the tea packets. Honestly as into it as we were when doing tlo, the concept itself was super simple. I kind of want to go back to 10 gallons and a diy vortex with fresh humus or Ewc, I think those packs where funking on me. The big difference between then and now is I was doing somany more then tat I went through the material faster, now it seems to sit in a mechanical room forever doing one a couple times a run. Saw that gen hydro has small bags of the ancient forest humus, hopefully some local stores carry them.
The problem I had with the bags was really unique, the tea itself would foam and smell perfect, but after application I would get that crazy funk smell when entering the room. Only happened like the morning after it was applied at lights on and went away as soon as things dried. Soil is pretty easy because it's an aerobic environment, but funk is funk, really slowed me down on the teas. The same tea applied to multi feed coco was a fucking nightmare! Had to h202 everything, then was gone. In fact I would say multi feed drip coco does. It support teas IME.
In general do you make any effort to keep carbs in the root zone? This is something I did with tlo, but between funky teas and synthetics working well I haven't fed much in the way of carbs besides the flor+
TrichCrazy5280
Member
I add Sugaree after flower set now for carbs. I like that stuff a lot. Its super clean and is OMRI
I used to use molasses a lot before but kinda got over dealing with it. Im not TLO. I use checmical fertilizers so im trying to keep it as simple as possible.
I used to use molasses a lot before but kinda got over dealing with it. Im not TLO. I use checmical fertilizers so im trying to keep it as simple as possible.
Totally agree that it's a balancing act. Really with how I've felt about my root zone carbs just didn't make sense. Not much way to help biology when the ph is 5.5
I will check out sugaree. I think I'm just gonna have to see how things look with the dolomite in the root zone. It's just been clear all has not been good, nothing bad, but not good.
