roots organics potting soil adding lime

[theother]

Little background, 5 gallon smart pots, roots organic potting soil, water only veg in 2 gallons with bloom salts the last week before transplant, veg is 1k MH bloom is 1k hps, room is sealed and co2 enriched, temps are 80-82 at flip and slowly decreasing. Nutes are GH flora 3 part with floro + and calimagic

Have had problems in the past where PH of medium would drop to like 5.5, pour through test showed like 100-150 PPM (@.5) in the root zone so I don't believe it was accumulated salts causing the drop. I ran a lot of runoff (it worked look at the salt accumulation LOL) but I think I washed the charge right out fairly quickly.

I am going to reduce the runoff (maybe run them off once a week instead of every feed). I am also going to up the EC of the feeds, and am debating on switching to feed 1/2 feed feed instead of feed water. Im gonna let the plants tell me about that.

My question is, how much lime should I add per 5 gallon smart pot. I was considering using both lime and roots organics "elemental" https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/ROEL9 I am not positive that the elemental will help hold up the PH but I do believe it will.

I was thinking of starting small, maybe a TBS of lime and a TBS of elemental per 5 gallon.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

So this is what i do. Whatever soil you are using i suggest doing a run off PH test before planting. I have noticed that most all soils (ffof, vermisoil,e tc) all come out a little lower then would think for fresh soil. Most of the time its in the 5.5-6.0 range for me. That is with the factory charge of lime. And over time the ph can drop a little. What I do to keep the PH is the range im looking for is to add 1/2 cup of dolomite per 1.5 cubic foot of soil. As im sure you know for acidic soils you use 1 cup per cubic feet. But since most soil already have some, i opt to go with 1/2 strength. This has been keeping the Vermi soil that i use in the range i am looking for. Also you cant really over do lime, most it will do it get your medium to 7.0.

I do remember after i broke down 1 cup per cubic Ft, it was equivalent to about a TBS a gallon. Would have to do it again to make sure.

However since you are using chemical nutrients I highly suggest not cutting back on your runoff. Gotta make sure you are washing out potential buildups. Honestly I try to water my plants untilli see water begin to come out then bottom then i move to the next plant. Get the right amount of lime in your medium and you wont have to worry abnout washing it out. I just dont think they add that much lime to begin with. Plus a lot of other potential potted plants prefer a ph in that range of 5.5-6.0.

Gotta love Lime, keeps your ph in check and provides a slow release of calcium/mag. Honestly i have not ran into either of those deficiencies in a LONG time. And i dont use cal/mag anymore.

 

[theother]

So this is what i do. Whatever soil you are using i suggest doing a run off PH test before planting. I have noticed that most all soils (ffof, vermisoil,e tc) all come out a little lower then would think for fresh soil. Most of the time its in the 5.5-6.0 range for me. That is with the factory charge of lime. And over time the ph can drop a little. What I do to keep the PH is the range im looking for is to add 1/2 cup of dolomite per 1.5 cubic foot of soil. As im sure you know for acidic soils you use 1 cup per cubic feet. But since most soil already have some, i opt to go with 1/2 strength. This has been keeping the Vermi soil that i use in the range i am looking for. Also you cant really over do lime, most it will do it get your medium to 7.0.

I do remember after i broke down 1 cup per cubic Ft, it was equivalent to about a TBS a gallon. Would have to do it again to make sure.

However since you are using chemical nutrients I highly suggest not cutting back on your runoff. Gotta make sure you are washing out potential buildups. Honestly I try to water my plants untilli see water begin to come out then bottom then i move to the next plant. Get the right amount of lime in your medium and you wont have to worry abnout washing it out. I just dont think they add that much lime to begin with. Plus a lot of other potential potted plants prefer a ph in that range of 5.5-6.0.

Gotta love Lime, keeps your ph in check and provides a slow release of calcium/mag. Honestly i have not ran into either of those deficiencies in a LONG time. And i dont use cal/mag anymore.

I'm gonna do it this time for sure in the final containers. I guess I will up the amounts a bit based on your 1 cup per 1-1.5 cubic feet. Maybe 2 tbs of lime and one tbs of elemental per 5 gallon smart pot (they get transplanted out of 2 gallon nursery pots (probably a true 1.5). Curious to see how much of a difference it makes.

For the runoff I think part of the problem is smart pots. To really feel like you are getting runoff you gotta water the shit out of them. I have a wand hooked up to a 1500 gph sump pump that I water with. I basically hit each pot for like a second at a time then work back and forth across the rows. To really get what I feel was runoff I was giving each plant 6 or 7 bursts, it was taking about 50-55 gallons of water to do 36 5 gallon smart pots. I am now more like 30-35 gallons through them. The runoff is not as extreme, but the over 1 gallon per plant thing seemed to do more harm then good. It worked though fwiw, I had defs instead of buildups, but honestly it seemed to wash most of the soil amendments right out of the media. If I was gonna keep that up I think I would definitely feed highe and run half strength feeds instead of clear water.

I'm still gonna feed higher this time, last time I started at like 1.2 and ultimately that fucked me. I ended up with defs at flip (you saw those pics) and a great flower set that looked like it had huge potential but then, lost steam big time around week 3. In my opinion this is the worst thing in certain ways, luckily for me they put on weight and kept the grease up but it's so much easier when stack is huge.

Think I'm gonna start at 1.6-1.8 this time and work my way up to 2.0 going to go feed water and hope everything stays good. The reason I switched to complete soil is I threw some complete soil plants into a soilless run and they blew everything else away, they chugged along so consistently it was unreal.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

I'm gonna do it this time for sure in the final containers. I guess I will up the amounts a bit based on your 1 cup per 1-1.5 cubic feet. Maybe 2 tbs of lime and one tbs of elemental per 5 gallon smart pot (they get transplanted out of 2 gallon nursery pots (probably a true 1.5). Curious to see how much of a difference it makes.

For the runoff I think part of the problem is smart pots. To really feel like you are getting runoff you gotta water the shit out of them. I have a wand hooked up to a 1500 gph sump pump that I water with. I basically hit each pot for like a second at a time then work back and forth across the rows. To really get what I feel was runoff I was giving each plant 6 or 7 bursts, it was taking about 50-55 gallons of water to do 36 5 gallon smart pots. I am now more like 30-35 gallons through them. The runoff is not as extreme, but the over 1 gallon per plant thing seemed to do more harm then good. It worked though fwiw, I had defs instead of buildups, but honestly it seemed to wash most of the soil amendments right out of the media. If I was gonna keep that up I think I would definitely feed highe and run half strength feeds instead of clear water.

I'm still gonna feed higher this time, last time I started at like 1.2 and ultimately that fucked me. I ended up with defs at flip (you saw those pics) and a great flower set that looked like it had huge potential but then, lost steam big time around week 3. In my opinion this is the worst thing in certain ways, luckily for me they put on weight and kept the grease up but it's so much easier when stack is huge.

Think I'm gonna start at 1.6-1.8 this time and work my way up to 2.0 going to go feed water and hope everything stays good. The reason I switched to complete soil is I threw some complete soil plants into a soilless run and they blew everything else away, they chugged along so consistently it was unreal.

Just FYI the 1 cup per cubic breaks down to 2 tablespoons per gallon not 1. I just did the math. Also that ratio is just the common ratio. Its in all the books i have.

I totally agree with you on the smart pots. I have used those at work before and i did also feel like i had to soak the shit out them to ensure no dry pockets in the soil. I did like them and we never had rounded up roots like do in the pots or bags. But the whole cleaning a couple hundred root pots once a month got old REAL QUICK. I still crack up about the time i went to local laundry mat with trashbags full of soil pots, SMH. lol

I also agree with your upping of the nutrients, this is something i had to also adjust to when we began using co2. ITs crazy how much more they use. When one rises all the others rise too. More co2 means more water, nutrients, light, even humidity from what im currently researching. If I do ever feel the need to flush the media i use a 1/4 strength or 1/2 strength. If i was to give to many plain water flushes the plants really show it fast.

What do you mean by complete soil? Just not soiless? With amendments?

 

[theother]

Just FYI the 1 cup per cubic breaks down to 2 tablespoons per gallon not 1. I just did the math. Also that ratio is just the common ratio. Its in all the books i have.

I totally agree with you on the smart pots. I have used those at work before and i did also feel like i had to soak the shit out them to ensure no dry pockets in the soil. I did like them and we never had rounded up roots like do in the pots or bags. But the whole cleaning a couple hundred root pots once a month got old REAL QUICK. I still crack up about the time i went to local laundry mat with trashbags full of soil pots, SMH. lol

I also agree with your upping of the nutrients, this is something i had to also adjust to when we began using co2. ITs crazy how much more they use. When one rises all the others rise too. More co2 means more water, nutrients, light, even humidity from what im currently researching. If I do ever feel the need to flush the media i use a 1/4 strength or 1/2 strength. If i was to give to many plain water flushes the plants really show it fast.

What do you mean by complete soil? Just not soiless? With amendments?

Thanks for the updated info. I'm still thinking about doing 2tbs lime one elementsl per 5. I will do the leach test before and after, think I want to get them around 6.5-6.6 so they have somewhere to go. I gotta check a fresh bag of roots and see what it comes in at, I was assuming they where right at 6.4 but if it turns out they are in the 6-5.5 range I will have to add more. I assumed mine had slipped super far but they may have just been off out of the bag. I want to use the elementsl but am still nervous as I did lock out a run a long long time ago top dressing azomite on water only orgsnic plants. I suspect there was more at play three though.

Are you in soil or coco? I never had so much trouble with under feeding and defs until I did so much runoff with such a low ec. Fed the same ec to a batch without runoff awhile back and they blew up. LIve and learn I guess, gonna be curious how shit comes out with once a week runoff, hoping that's the sweet spot.

Yep complete soil is just amended either coco or peat or a combination of both. Got veg plants in both roots and vermifire. So far I am still partial to the roots, but time will tell. Vermifire tsinted me because it came with a new kind of fungus gnat. Fuckers are huge! Like have a root aphid freak out big, but I shave caught and inspected several now and it is no doubt just a larger fungus gnat. It's that time of year too so not totally on the vermifire, but they came in on that shit. The soilless I was referring to is just a sterile peat either promix up or sunshine #4.

I am back and forth on complete soil versus soilless. I! On the second run of complete soil and I think my initial idea is holding up. The complete soil is just more forgiving. When I missed the mark in soilless shit cns get real bad, but with complete so it seems like I get higher density and more grease in the same situation". Obviously the goal is to not fuck up, but let's be honest it happens.

Do you have a decent understanding of the relationship between ph (lime in the soil) and calcium, and how that effects everything else's? I get that calcium is crucial in many of the cellular process of flowering plants, but what I don't get is how the correct ph by way of lime creates calcium and nutrient availability. The ph of the medium makes sense to me, certain rsnge for different elements, but is the lime breaking down and becoming an available form of calcium? Is it broken down just from the reaction with water?

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Thanks for the updated info. I'm still thinking about doing 2tbs lime one elementsl per 5. I will do the leach test before and after, think I want to get them around 6.5-6.6 so they have somewhere to go. I gotta check a fresh bag of roots and see what it comes in at, I was assuming they where right at 6.4 but if it turns out they are in the 6-5.5 range I will have to add more. I assumed mine had slipped super far but they may have just been off out of the bag. I want to use the elementsl but am still nervous as I did lock out a run a long long time ago top dressing azomite on water only orgsnic plants. I suspect there was more at play three though.

Are you in soil or coco? I never had so much trouble with under feeding and defs until I did so much runoff with such a low ec. Fed the same ec to a batch without runoff awhile back and they blew up. LIve and learn I guess, gonna be curious how shit comes out with once a week runoff, hoping that's the sweet spot.

Yep complete soil is just amended either coco or peat or a combination of both. Got veg plants in both roots and vermifire. So far I am still partial to the roots, but time will tell. Vermifire tsinted me because it came with a new kind of fungus gnat. Fuckers are huge! Like have a root aphid freak out big, but I shave caught and inspected several now and it is no doubt just a larger fungus gnat. It's that time of year too so not totally on the vermifire, but they came in on that shit. The soilless I was referring to is just a sterile peat either promix up or sunshine #4.

I am back and forth on complete soil versus soilless. I! On the second run of complete soil and I think my initial idea is holding up. The complete soil is just more forgiving. When I missed the mark in soilless shit cns get real bad, but with complete so it seems like I get higher density and more grease in the same situation". Obviously the goal is to not fuck up, but let's be honest it happens.

Do you have a decent understanding of the relationship between ph (lime in the soil) and calcium, and how that effects everything else's? I get that calcium is crucial in many of the cellular process of flowering plants, but what I don't get is how the correct ph by way of lime creates calcium and nutrient availability. The ph of the medium makes sense to me, certain rsnge for different elements, but is the lime breaking down and becoming an available form of calcium? Is it broken down just from the reaction with water?

SO you are thinking about using 2 tablespoons of dolomite to 5 gallons of soil? If thats the case its simply not enough. I have had rounds that i did not amend my soil with extra dolomite and week one of flower my ph was in the lower 5 range. I want ahead and dumped a cup per 7 gallon pot(the correct ratio) on top of the soil and cultivated it in. Watering it into the soil. IT worked great and saw no adverse effects. Since then i have never forgot to add the lime before hand. I have not heard of "the elements", is it glacial dust or something? I have used azomite as an amendment in past years and i vaguely remember that we used a small amounts. Dont be nervous about the dolomite, make sure to get the powdered kind not the pellets.

I am currently using vermisoil, i have used the fire but prefer the less amended version personally. This is a peat/coco blend but im sure you know that. I amend extra perlite and dolomite, thats it. I have used soiless with great luck and soil. I prefer the soil for flavor and there is an extra source of food for the plants and any biological activity(bactera and fungi) going on in there.

Lime IS calcium and magnesium. The reason the lime is allowing for other additional nutrient uptake is because the PH is the right range like you said. all these nutrients work together in this balance. If you are calcium deficient then the plants absorb less potassium etc. The correct PH is the starting point of these relationships working together correctly. Dolomite does dissolve into an absorbable form but it takes a long time, probably around the time you are harvesting your plants.

It does dissolve in water. The PH up i use(nectar for the gods olympus up) is lime dissolved in water. Works bad ass and i am getting a lil calcium boost. I have taken equal amounts of dolomite and water and mixed them together, the ph of the water started at like 6.0 and afer the mix it was 7. Basically i could make my own ph up but i just dont feel like fucking with it.

What i cannot tell you is excatly why this form of calcium raises acidic soils. Not why sulfur lowers the PH of alkaline soils. But it works

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

And yes I have noticed that vermisoil has had fungus gnats in it also. I never know if it comes that way or its from the local suppliers storing there soils outside. Is annoying but never really gets that bad. FFOF a couple years ago was infested with root aphids and stopped using it since then. I have heard they got it under control though.

 

[theother]

SO you are thinking about using 2 tablespoons of dolomite to 5 gallons of soil? If thats the case its simply not enough. I have had rounds that i did not amend my soil with extra dolomite and week one of flower my ph was in the lower 5 range. I want ahead and dumped a cup per 7 gallon pot(the correct ratio) on top of the soil and cultivated it in. Watering it into the soil. IT worked great and saw no adverse effects. Since then i have never forgot to add the lime before hand. I have not heard of "the elements", is it glacial dust or something? I have used azomite as an amendment in past years and i vaguely remember that we used a small amounts. Dont be nervous about the dolomite, make sure to get the powdered kind not the pellets.

I am currently using vermisoil, i have used the fire but prefer the less amended version personally. This is a peat/coco blend but im sure you know that. I amend extra perlite and dolomite, thats it. I have used soiless with great luck and soil. I prefer the soil for flavor and there is an extra source of food for the plants and any biological activity(bactera and fungi) going on in there.

Lime IS calcium and magnesium. The reason the lime is allowing for other additional nutrient uptake is because the PH is the right range like you said. all these nutrients work together in this balance. If you are calcium deficient then the plants absorb less potassium etc. The correct PH is the starting point of these relationships working together correctly. Dolomite does dissolve into an absorbable form but it takes a long time, probably around the time you are harvesting your plants.

It does dissolve in water. The PH up i use(nectar for the gods olympus up) is lime dissolved in water. Works bad ass and i am getting a lil calcium boost. I have taken equal amounts of dolomite and water and mixed them together, the ph of the water started at like 6.0 and afer the mix it was 7. Basically i could make my own ph up but i just dont feel like fucking with it.

What i cannot tell you is excatly why this form of calcium raises acidic soils. Not why sulfur lowers the PH of alkaline soils. But it works

So basically the lime PH's the soil and the correct PH of the media is what people talk about calcium? Seems a strange way to sum up phing of the media but it makes sense. So basically if they don't lime its low, and they are cal def, when they lime no longer cal def and right between mag and cal? I guess that just shows how important cal is, considering that is what I have always heard referenced when soil buffering with lime is talked about. Appreciate the insight. Do you consider 6.4 to be a good point to PH to?

Ya man, creepy crawlies make me nuts, so far pretty happy with the roots, maybe gonna be more happy after i lime it.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

So basically the lime PH's the soil and the correct PH of the media is what people talk about calcium? Seems a strange way to sum up phing of the media but it makes sense. So basically if they don't lime its low, and they are cal def, when they lime no longer cal def and right between mag and cal? I guess that just shows how important cal is, considering that is what I have always heard referenced when soil buffering with lime is talked about. Appreciate the insight. Do you consider 6.4 to be a good point to PH to?

Ya man, creepy crawlies make me nuts, so far pretty happy with the roots, maybe gonna be more happy after i lime it.

I would think that most people dont use dolomite for the calcium/mag but more for the PH buffering abilites. Its kinda of added bonus imo. Dolomite is not the most readily absorable form of calcium and magnesium.

6.4 is a great number. I ph my water/nutrients at 6.0 for veg and 6.5 for bloom. But the soil PH will maintain the same. THe water ph allows for maximum uptake of desired nurtients.

 

[theother]

SO you are thinking about using 2 tablespoons of dolomite to 5 gallons of soil? If thats the case its simply not enough. I have had rounds that i did not amend my soil with extra dolomite and week one of flower my ph was in the lower 5 range. I want ahead and dumped a cup per 7 gallon pot(the correct ratio) on top of the soil and cultivated it in. Watering it into the soil. IT worked great and saw no adverse effects. Since then i have never forgot to add the lime before hand. I have not heard of "the elements", is it glacial dust or something? I have used azomite as an amendment in past years and i vaguely remember that we used a small amounts. Dont be nervous about the dolomite, make sure to get the powdered kind not the pellets.

I am currently using vermisoil, i have used the fire but prefer the less amended version personally. This is a peat/coco blend but im sure you know that. I amend extra perlite and dolomite, thats it. I have used soiless with great luck and soil. I prefer the soil for flavor and there is an extra source of food for the plants and any biological activity(bactera and fungi) going on in there.

Lime IS calcium and magnesium. The reason the lime is allowing for other additional nutrient uptake is because the PH is the right range like you said. all these nutrients work together in this balance. If you are calcium deficient then the plants absorb less potassium etc. The correct PH is the starting point of these relationships working together correctly. Dolomite does dissolve into an absorbable form but it takes a long time, probably around the time you are harvesting your plants.

It does dissolve in water. The PH up i use(nectar for the gods olympus up) is lime dissolved in water. Works bad ass and i am getting a lil calcium boost. I have taken equal amounts of dolomite and water and mixed them together, the ph of the water started at like 6.0 and afer the mix it was 7. Basically i could make my own ph up but i just dont feel like fucking with it.

What i cannot tell you is excatly why this form of calcium raises acidic soils. Not why sulfur lowers the PH of alkaline soils. But it works

So what would be good to shoot for in a 5 gallon smart pot that is getting a 2 gallon nursery transplanted into it (maybe 3.5 gallons of soil needing to be amended also considering that I want to add one this of elementsl which I am thinking is just lime and glacial rock dust so maybe it's stupid. Guess I should consider tilling some lime into the veg plants but it just barely seems worth it, going strong so far.

I would think that most people dont use dolomite for the calcium/mag but more for the PH buffering abilites. Its kinda of added bonus imo. Dolomite is not the most readily absorable form of calcium and magnesium.

6.4 is a great number. I ph my water/nutrients at 6.0 for veg and 6.5 for bloom. But the soil PH will maintain the same. THe water ph allows for maximum uptake of desired nurtients.

For some reason every time I heard dolomitic lime come up it was usually outdoor guys talking about calcium, somehow I just made the connection in my head I guess.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

I'm gonna do it this time for sure in the final containers. I guess I will up the amounts a bit based on your 1 cup per 1-1.5 cubic feet. Maybe 2 tbs of lime and one tbs of elemental per 5 gallon smart pot (they get transplanted out of 2 gallon nursery pots (probably a true 1.5). Curious to see how much of a difference it makes.

For the runoff I think part of the problem is smart pots. To really feel like you are getting runoff you gotta water the shit out of them. I have a wand hooked up to a 1500 gph sump pump that I water with. I basically hit each pot for like a second at a time then work back and forth across the rows. To really get what I feel was runoff I was giving each plant 6 or 7 bursts, it was taking about 50-55 gallons of water to do 36 5 gallon smart pots. I am now more like 30-35 gallons through them. The runoff is not as extreme, but the over 1 gallon per plant thing seemed to do more harm then good. It worked though fwiw, I had defs instead of buildups, but honestly it seemed to wash most of the soil amendments right out of the media. If I was gonna keep that up I think I would definitely feed highe and run half strength feeds instead of clear water.

I'm still gonna feed higher this time, last time I started at like 1.2 and ultimately that fucked me. I ended up with defs at flip (you saw those pics) and a great flower set that looked like it had huge potential but then, lost steam big time around week 3. In my opinion this is the worst thing in certain ways, luckily for me they put on weight and kept the grease up but it's so much easier when stack is huge.

Think I'm gonna start at 1.6-1.8 this time and work my way up to 2.0 going to go feed water and hope everything stays good. The reason I switched to complete soil is I threw some complete soil plants into a soilless run and they blew everything else away, they chugged along so consistently it was unreal.

SO you are going to alternate water between feedings?

This is what i do personally with best results, without this schedule i would have def. plants very quickly.

Late veg into early flower(transition)- 1.6-2.0 every watering. 3 times a week.

Mid bloom until flush- 2.4 range every feeding

 

[theother]

SO you are going to alternate water between feedings?

This is what i do personally with best results, without this schedule i would have def. plants very quickly.

Late veg into early flower(transition)- 1.6-2.0 every watering. 3 times a week.

Mid bloom until flush- 2.4 range every feeding

Your schedule may be the direction I end up heading. I was planning on at least trying clear watering's for awhile but maybe ill skip it. Maybe I will just say fuck it and go like you are.

How much water are you giving each time?

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

So what would be good to shoot for in a 5 gallon smart pot that is getting a 2 gallon nursery transplanted into it (maybe 3.5 gallons of soil needing to be amended also considering that I want to add one this of elementsl which I am thinking is just lime and glacial rock dust so maybe it's stupid. Guess I should consider tilling some lime into the veg plants but it just barely seems worth it, going strong so far.


For some reason every time I heard dolomitic lime come up it was usually outdoor guys talking about calcium, somehow I just made the connection in my head I guess.

for 3.5 gallons of soil that would be 105 ml or 7 tablespoons. Just get in the habbit of mixing it in first. I wouldn't worry about the veg plants and adding it to them unless your runoff is already low.

I would either choose dolomite or the elements. NO need to make things confusing when they are both doing the same things.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Your schedule may be the direction I end up heading. I was planning on at least trying clear watering's for awhile but maybe ill skip it. Maybe I will just say fuck it and go like you are.

How much water are you giving each time?

Before going with this method keep this in mind. I grow 4 plants per light in either 7-10 gallon pots. From what i remember you are growing 32-36 plants with 4 lights? So you have twice as many plants as me. Bigger plants feed much more then medium sized plants.

When my plants are established in there 7 gallon pots they get about 1-1.5 gallons of water per plant.

When in ten gallon pots i am pushing almost 2 gallons of water through the soil. I get lots of run off!!

 

[theother]

Before going with this method keep this in mind. I grow 4 plants per light in either 7-10 gallon pots. From what i remember you are growing 32-36 plants with 4 lights? So you have twice as many plants as me. Bigger plants feed much more then medium sized plants.

When my plants are established in there 7 gallon pots they get about 1-1.5 gallons of water per plant.

When in ten gallon pots i am pushing almost 2 gallons of water through the soil. I get lots of run off!!

These were 9 per, in 5's and I think I was giving them 1.25-1.3 gallons a piece. Too much runoff I think. It was just hard for me to judge how much runoff I was getting in the smart pots. Gonna knock it back to like under a gallon per and call it good. There is definitely a point of diminishing return with runoff. I had just never run soil that way and i was afraid I wasn't getting enough out. It was also kind of sketch getting the 3rd day out of them, sometimes fine, but other times they would feel too dry.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

These were 9 per, in 5's and I think I was giving them 1.25-1.3 gallons a piece. Too much runoff I think. It was just hard for me to judge how much runoff I was getting in the smart pots. Gonna knock it back to like under a gallon per and call it good. There is definitely a point of diminishing return with runoff. I had just never run soil that way and i was afraid I wasn't getting enough out. It was also kind of sketch getting the 3rd day out of them, sometimes fine, but other times they would feel too dry.

I honestly dont think it matters. you want 20% runoff, more is only a waste i guess. BUt i agree that you DO want to flush out the excess salts. You are never going to get def. from watering too thoroughly. Its not a good practice to underwater to eliminate excess runoff for the idea that you are washing away necessary nutrients. This is why i always feed either diluted nutrients or full strength. Water acutally does not flush bound up nutrients from the soil that well unless you run twice the containers volume of water through.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

Maybe just go with your gut. heavier feedings and water in between. OR an nice combo IMO would be a heavy feed then instead of water use a combination of enzymes and humic acids.

I think you are on the right track for number of plants per light you are growing.

 

[theother]

I honestly dont think it matters. you want 20% runoff, more is only a waste i guess. BUt i agree that you DO want to flush out the excess salts. You are never going to get def. from watering too thoroughly. Its not a good practice to underwater to eliminate excess runoff for the idea that you are washing away necessary nutrients. This is why i always feed either diluted nutrients or full strength. Water acutally does not flush bound up nutrients from the soil that well unless you run twice the containers volume of water through.

It's interesting how I showed defs this run with the same ec that as the one before that didn't. Lots of variables though.

Maybe just go with your gut. heavier feedings and water in between. OR an nice combo IMO would be a heavy feed then instead of water use a combination of enzymes and humic acids.

I think you are on the right track for number of plants per light you are growing.

9 seems to be the sweet spot for now, have done me less and this seems to fit the veg schedule best.

I got best up by enzymes last time, I tried "big time" enzyme, shit was too strong. I could actually see it eat away the smaller roots at the top of the rootball. I'll grab some pics of it, it really was strange. What enzyme do you use? I didn't hate cannazyme but hadn't really considered getting it back in the mix.

For fulvic/Humic I use floro+ and have used ful-power and fulvex also. So far I am pretty happy with the floro+ I use at 1ml per and start it in veg, cut it out around 6 on a 9 weeker.

What base are you feeding I can't remember if you said already.

 

[TrichCrazy5280]

It's interesting how I showed defs this run with the same ec that as the one before that didn't. Lots of variables though.

9 seems to be the sweet spot for now, have done me less and this seems to fit the veg schedule best.

I got best up by enzymes last time, I tried "big time" enzyme, shit was too strong. I could actually see it eat away the smaller roots at the top of the rootball. I'll grab some pics of it, it really was strange. What enzyme do you use? I didn't hate cannazyme but hadn't really considered getting it back in the mix.

For fulvic/Humic I use floro+ and have used ful-power and fulvex also. So far I am pretty happy with the floro+ I use at 1ml per and start it in veg, cut it out around 6 on a 9 weeker.

What base are you feeding I can't remember if you said already.

Finding the number of plants that fits your veg size and time is key. I veg my plants for 2 months prior to flowering. At 32 plants for 8 lights my veg is PACKED prior to flower. I could not fit anymore in my veg. I have also done 9 a light. I like 4. Especially when you start growing hundreds of plants you cut your soil costs in half.

Wow an enzyme that strong, that is crazy. I like hygrozyme personally or cannazyme. FOr humics i like humega or nectar for the gods makes a humic acid/kelp blend that is nice. I have considered using ful-power becuase its a bit cleaner and less stinky.

I am now using botanicares the Kind 3 part as my base. I have used pure blend pro for a long time but when i started running co2 and got accelerated growth it would not keep up with the plants needs. I did not want to have to start running 30-40 mls a gallon to keep up. Again cost being a factor.

Keep it pretty simple with the additives.

 

[theother]

Finding the number of plants that fits your veg size and time is key. I veg my plants for 2 months prior to flowering. At 32 plants for 8 lights my veg is PACKED prior to flower. I could not fit anymore in my veg. I have also done 9 a light. I like 4. Especially when you start growing hundreds of plants you cut your soil costs in half.

Wow an enzyme that strong, that is crazy. I like hygrozyme personally or cannazyme. FOr humics i like humega or nectar for the gods makes a humic acid/kelp blend that is nice. I have considered using ful-power becuase its a bit cleaner and less stinky.

I am now using botanicares the Kind 3 part as my base. I have used pure blend pro for a long time but when i started running co2 and got accelerated growth it would not keep up with the plants needs. I did not want to have to start running 30-40 mls a gallon to keep up. Again cost being a factor.

Keep it pretty simple with the additives.

Never used kind,but I remember when it came out a couple years ago, looks interesting is it the same kind of salts and organic components like pbp? I always found pbp underwhelming, I have friends who run it but not so much myself.

I was doing a act every other week and loading it up with bud swell (liquid guano) before I watered it in. Stopped this time because it seemed like the tea was causing a lockout. Maybe I will work it in again but do the teas differently or just do the liquid guanos. Looks like roots has a line of them now too, the liquids make it nice and simple.

The nectar of the gods kelp Humic combo sounds interesting the best of my understanding hat is approximately what floro + is just somehow way more concentrated? Honestly been pleased with it so far.

I think the thing I need to do with my base mostly is just find an ec me and the plants are comfortable with. I have been happy with gh flora 3 part but I need to find a pk booster I can work with or just get more of the bloom in there.

It's interesting you mentioned phos in the other thread, I had fought a mag def early (probably from media ph being too low) and had just assumed the late def was a continuation of that, but a friend pointed out that by leaving out kool bloom my ratios where off. I was resistant at first for a few reasons but the more I look at them I can see a phos def that's worse in anything directly under a bulb with lots of tops, seems the phos just wasn't enough for them I guess. I have no idea why it would work other times but not this one.