Rookie Aero Flo Grow Together

[aerokrafter]

Planting Day! - part 2


Clone Before:


Here is a pretty 2 headed clone. All of the clones are between 8 and 10 inches - gonna be a nice even canopy! I'm pruning all but the top 3 shoots on each head. I'm also removing any raggety leaves while keeping all other leaves. I refer to this as a 2 Head\3 Shoot prune. This is the standard setup I use for all plants in the system. Later strain knowledge modifies this, but it is rare.

Clone After:


I have some new netpots - they need a little mod to help make planting easier. I clip out one crossbar so that thicker roots can be threaded through.

Clipped Netpot:


Roots through:


Spiral Bottom:


By planting in this way you get a couple advantages:

- The long tap root lies in the nute solution ensuring the plant doesn't have to work too hard.

- The spiraled root in the bottom of the cup encourages aero roots to quickly grow a fringe around the entire perimeter of the netpot. This is where the turbo growth comes from in aero. We are working the roots from day 1!

-Cont-

 

[aerokrafter]

Planting Day! - part 3

Clone Planted:


Unit Freshly Planted:


Everyone is a little floppy from all the handling, but will look better by tommorow.

I'll do a mini update later. We will be checking the nutes and making sure all the clones look good. I will keep the extra clones in the cloner for another day, just in case. Starting with 24 and taking the best 18 to bloom is a proven strategy to ensure the best final results.

-------

-OG

Those clones look very healthy! Good show man. You will love using a cloner - you end up with healthier, more even clones in the end.


As always, your questions and comments are welcome.

-AK

 

[genetic freaked]

Great thread as always AK. I never post but lurk n I have only posted in ur threads. I would love to join the crew on this aero adventure but have always been too nervous to post pics. Because of this I will have to sit back and watch the others.
I must say what ur doing here is amazing! I remember back in the Og days BOG put out his methods and got me where I am today.
I wish I could have had something like this when I started aero but it was all trial and error.
I'll be over here watching a great thread.
I can't wait to see your 80 Zips be hit in the other thread and am amazed at the results of the last run
Hope the best for everyone and stay dafe

 

[TREE KING]

- mr. gt

I understand - glad to have ya kicking around here in any capacity. H2O2 will change the pH and ppm - you will need to reduce regular nutes. Zone and silica have worked well for me - more so in combating heat generated pythium than anything else. Putting a bad apple in the barrel is always risky! It's sometimes hard to set aside the wimpy or diseased plant, but darwin is still hard at work all the time.


At 14 days in the cloner:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=38999&pictureid=925485&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

Roots:

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=38999&pictureid=925486&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]


These need about another week to even out. Next step is topping and pruning. They will need another 10-14 days after that before they are ready to go to bloom.

One practice with the cloners that I use is to change them out rather than top them off. It's only 5 minutes and a quarters worth of nutes - well worth it!


-AK

so aerokrafter you said zone and silica works better than any other thing you've tried. im guessing you tried h202, im curious if you have how much per gal were you using and how often?

im new to aero i just bought an apollo 3 system and the first crop i ran the pump 24/7 and had some root rot. this second crop i was gonna try h202 but if you say zone definitely works better than il probably just skip to that. im afraid that maybe my roots werent getting enough oxygen and i should change the pump cycle also. what do you think? i heard alot of people say 1 min on 5 min off was too hard on the pump thats why i ran it 24/7

 

[aerokrafter]

-TK

I've used H2O2 and still keep some on hand. I use it for cleaning when I'm concerned about contamination(after a first normal cleaning with bleach). If I have a cloner that gets too hot and pythium shows up, 3 ml per gallon(base level I use) helps clean it up. I used it primarily as a reactive step, rather than as a part of my base recipes.

Zone and Silica as a preventative has greatly diminished pythium and allowed me to have warmer reses -(I've gone up to 85 degrees without rot). When I did have a problem earlier this summer(over 110 degrees in the bloom room for a day). The roots were cooked. I reduced the nutes and bumped the Zone. I got far more recovery than I expected.

I plan on never having to go through that nightmare again - massive AC upgrade over this winter. In any event, I can say that using quite small quantities of Zone and Silica as a preventative worked better for me than H2O2 did as reactive measure. The reason I never used H2O2 as a part of base nutes is that it's effect is quite short lived. Zone and Silica get reupped every 2 weeks at res changes. I bump them by 10 or 20 ml from 50ml (40 gal res) in higher temps.

Hope this helps

-AK

 

[TREE KING]

-TK

I've used H2O2 and still keep some on hand. I use it for cleaning when I'm concerned about contamination(after a first normal cleaning with bleach). If I have a cloner that gets too hot and pythium shows up, 3 ml per gallon(base level I use) helps clean it up. I used it primarily as a reactive step, rather than as a part of my base recipes.

Zone and Silica as a preventative has greatly diminished pythium and allowed me to have warmer reses -(I've gone up to 85 degrees without rot). When I did have a problem earlier this summer(over 110 degrees in the bloom room for a day). The roots were cooked. I reduced the nutes and bumped the Zone. I got far more recovery than I expected.

I plan on never having to go through that nightmare again - massive AC upgrade over this winter. In any event, I can say that using quite small quantities of Zone and Silica as a preventative worked better for me than H2O2 did as reactive measure. The reason I never used H2O2 as a part of base nutes is that it's effect is quite short lived. Zone and Silica get reupped every 2 weeks at res changes. I bump them by 10 or 20 ml from 50ml (40 gal res) in higher temps.

Hope this helps

-AK

o shit you dont even have to add the zone every 4-5 days? i thought thats what the directions say? if it works for you every 2 weeks than imagine how ill it would work every 4 days thats good to know. i used to not like adding bleach cause you have to add it every day like h202 but i like how the cloramine lasts for days in the res thats why im exited to try the zone out

i dont think you said in this thread but what cycle do you keep your pump at 1 min on 4 min off? does your pump ever heat the water up? i had that problem last crop

 

[Dark Helmet]

don`t quote me on this but i think seeing his other threads said the pump is on constantly

 

[Dark Helmet]

.

.

Reader Mailbag

Amongst the questions in pm's that I get, there were questions raised that I thought would be worth sharing here.

Why don't you use a cycle timer like other aero systems?

A cycle timer is generally used in aero systems to increase the virtual air flow to the roots by having "dry time", when the pump is turned off. By modulating the nutrient mist into pulses instead of a continious delivery, the plants can grow even faster.

There are three reasons why I don't use them:

The aeroflo is not totally aero - the root mass in the bottom of the root chambers turns it into a hybrid aero/DWC system. Those roots that stay in solution all the time don't like to be dried out.

When the pump goes off, the excess solution in the root chambers backs up into the reservoir, making a mess on the floor.

The pumps in these machines don't last very long being turned on and off all the time. In fact I have yet to see a Bluestone make it for more than a year and half, just in continious mode. If a pump fails, you have about 12 hours before serious damage is done to the plants. Another good reason to have a backup on the shelf. The generic replacement pumps last longer, but you need to have "fun with fittings" to make them work.


-AK

this is what i could find at the moment.

 

[TREE KING]

don`t quote me on this but i think seeing his other threads said the pump is on constantly

thanks for trying to help. i just wanna be sure so il wait for his post. that would be good to hear knowing you can keep the pump on 24/7 and still get enough oxygen

 

[TREE KING]

thanks dark helmet i missed your second post

aerokrafter since you run your pump constantly is there ever a situation where the roots dont get enough oxygen like when the temp reaches above a certain level? im just trying to figure out if i should ever worry about this on top of worrying about pythium. im guessing its not a problem because the waters constantly moving right?

 

[aerokrafter]

I don't use a cycle timer for the reasons stated above. All submersable pumps add heat. The cycle timer makes a difference in high pressure aeroponics - quite a different animal than "splashoponic" systems like the aeroflo. HPA aims at creating and maintaining more aero roots.

In splashoponic designs, the action of the water streams hitting the root chamber walls and the surface of nutes on the chamber floor creates the disolved O2 in solution. This is surprisingly effective. HPA uses high pressure mister heads. Mister heads are better at maintaining a high DO, but have their own set of problems.

Leaving an AeroFlo on all the time results in the most DO for that kind of system. HPA has a slightly different strategy and a cycle timer plays a role.

Aero, no matter what kind, is less sensitive to heat than DWC, because of the active injection of DO. Your intuition is correct - the constant movement is key for spashoponic designs.

-AK

 

[Scottish Research]

Nice. You guy's are being given the key's to success. Right here.

Thanks for showing us your trellis set-up. Real easy and effective. I like it.

I did not think to mix warm to light ratios like that in my T5. Thanks for the advice.

R.Fortune

 

[TREE KING]

I don't use a cycle timer for the reasons stated above. All submersable pumps add heat. The cycle timer makes a difference in high pressure aeroponics - quite a different animal than "splashoponic" systems like the aeroflo. HPA aims at creating and maintaining more aero roots.

In splashoponic designs, the action of the water streams hitting the root chamber walls and the surface of nutes on the chamber floor creates the disolved O2 in solution. This is surprisingly effective. HPA uses high pressure mister heads. Mister heads are better at maintaining a high DO, but have their own set of problems.

Leaving an AeroFlo on all the time results in the most DO for that kind of system. HPA has a slightly different strategy and a cycle timer plays a role.

Aero, no matter what kind, is less sensitive to heat than DWC, because of the active injection of DO. Your intuition is correct - the constant movement is key for spashoponic designs.

-AK

aerokrafter i just wanna make sure i know what type of system im working with since its not an aeroflo. this is the system i have could you tell me if you consider it splashoponics or whatever. just wanna make sure that i should be keeping the pump running 24/7 like you
http://www.greenandclean.ca/hydropo...ic-systems/apollo-add-on-33-sites-add-on.html
another link
http://www.4hydroponics.com/hydroponics/aeroponics2.asp?ItemNo=apollo3

and heres the pump it uses
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...9433&catEntryId=100039433#product_description

i appreciate the help ak

 

[aerokrafter]

-TK

The Apollo system appears to be a partial step up to HPA. It looks like they have attempted to upgrade a flo with some interesting design approaches. At 40 psi, it is still depending on splash action rather than mister heads and I would consider it "splashoponics". So yes, I would leave the pump on 24/7.

-AK

 

[TREE KING]

-TK

The Apollo system appears to be a partial step up to HPA. It looks like they have attempted to upgrade a flo with some interesting design approaches. At 40 psi, it is still depending on splash action rather than mister heads and I would consider it "splashoponics". So yes, I would leave the pump on 24/7.

-AK

thanks alot for helping me out aerokrafter im glad i bumped into you here. cant wait to see how the zone works out

 

[aerokrafter]

Day 1 Bloom Update


Unit:



Data:



Everyone has made the transition to bloom alive and well. You will notice that the readings have changed from when we planted. This is normal. The clones bring a small amount of nutes with them from the cloner. In addition we measured after only 1 hour of circulation. It takes 4 hours for the system to completely stabilize.

This brings me to my daily regimen. At lights on I top off all units with RO, taking time to check the spray lines, and spend some time looking closely at the plants. If the unit is due for a foliar spray, I turn off its light and spray and inspect leaves.

I wait 4 hours to then do rounds on the units, measuring and prescribing the needs of each.


*****Action Item*****


I go into detail about bloom nutes and how to figure out what to feed the plants when in this post: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=232072&page=4


Please take a couple minutes to read this before starting your bloom run. I want to answer as many questions as possible about this BEFORE you have plants in bloom.


My Recommended Bloom Nute Recipe for First Time Runs:

In 40 Gallon Res with RO water

110 ml DM Gold A
110 ml DM Gold B
50 ml Zone
50 ml Silica
70 ml pH down

This starts you out on the low side (410 - 430 ppm) - its easier to add a small amount of A & B than have to drain and fill and fix it again. Different strains like different diets. We will start on the low side and work up to find their limit.


As always, your comments and questions are welcome.

-AK

 

[oldergrower]

Rapidly dropping nutes

Rapidly dropping nutes

AK, I upped my veg nutes to 520 ppm yesterday due to heavy nute dragging in veg for this strain. Today at 505 ppm so not so hard a pull.

Everything still looking good.

 

[bogfan]

I decided to go ahead and move the clones to the aeroflo early and finish vegging there. got to about 450 ppm with 62 ppm from the tap. The roots werent the bright white color I like so I circled the roots in the bottom and topped the cups with hydroton, although I forgot to clip the netpots and pull some roots out the bottom.
After 2 days I finally started to see some new aero roots in some of the pots but a few of the pots had this nice tan yellow snot looking stuff in the bottom of the pot. I doubled the zone in the recipe and added H2o2 and it sooms to have gotten rid of it but the plants dont look bright green like when I transplanted them. Some of the more yellow ones also have some brown spots on the older leaves.
I didnt get any pics of the snot looking stuff. I was too busy trying to get rid of it fast. First time I have seen that in aero. Looks like it worked.
Although I am still vegging, i used your bloom nute recipe....I thought they would only veg for a few more days. Looks like I am gonna be a little behind.
I will try to make up for my lack of posting so far by giving you pics of my ailing plants and all my grow equip.
Good luck to all!
Thanks again for making such an effort to help, Aerokrafter.

 

[bogfan]

pics of plants with issues

 

[bogfan]

This is what I am dealing with