Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[DiscoBiscuit]

Do you really consider agents of capitalism as the head of the snake? Read history, find out what happened when power tilted more towards corporations with barely the legal means to do anything about it. It's happening now but you might be paying more attention to sound bites than substance.

Absent the occasional global pariah, we wouldn't fight wars if we weren't settling trade disputes and or attempting to take shit that doesn't belong to us.

Politicians weren't planning to get rich with Iraq oil money. But they expected big oil to make sure they won all their elections.

Gloves don't handshake themselves. Don't be surprised when you've achieved your goal, the bad guy's still there and you've successfully neutered the only system that could do anything about it.

Remember when we busted up Standard Oil? We didn't just wake up one day and sign the bill. It took decades and multiple legal maneuvers before the federal government regained the power to bust em up.

 

[bentom187]

liberty and free markets !!!

[YOUTUBEIF]REjQJfU9c3I[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[bombadil.360]

^oh I think that point we described is impossible. we are just monkeys.

I definitely do not agree with a monarchy. There is no way one person can represent all and decided what should be done with the nations resources. Then you get into the whole family line thing going. Why is one person or family more fit to rule than another? A monarch has the choice to be good or to be a tyrant.

Elected officials are subject to the law of the people. They can be kicked out at any point if enough people are pissed off at them.

See, power is an illusion, and if the the masses believe the power lies with them than it does. Even now. If the people want to start a civil war and make a real stand they could. Citizens build the bombs and tanks in factories, if they want to stop manufacturing missiles for the U.S. military and start making them for rebels than they would. The majority of U.S. soldiers are not willing to fire on U.S. citizens anyways these days. It happened at Kent state and it is still considered a tragedy. No one is gonna defend congress or the executive branch. congress approval rating is 9 %. people prefer herpes over congress. lol

Hello Hash,

ok, we agree on one thing, that most people are monkeys and primitive-minded, right?

then, why are we supposed to represent their ideals when it comes down to govern for the better of the whole?

this is the classic argument against Democracy made by Ortega y Gasset.

basically, he says, since the majority of people are dumb, and democracy seeks to represent the majority of people, what we end up with is dumb rule.

also, how come everyone's vote counts the same?

that is, the vote of someone like Mubarak counts the same as the vote of someone like John Lennon.

on the other hand, in a monarchy, all of these idealizations of the "enlightenened proles" goes out the window, since it is not true to begin with.

of course, like you point out, monarchy also has its disadvantages, basically if you get a crazy motherfucker up there, it would wreck havoc; but still, taking down a shitty monarchy is more easy than taking down a shitty 'representative democracy', as the 'constitutional laws' give a specific procedure (impeachment) that is so riddled with obstacles and bureaucracy, that no one in the U.S has ever been impeached. people tried to impeach two, but it never took, they were found not-guilty thanks to constitutional manipulations.

anyway, we're far from the original topic as of now.

be good

peace!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... since the majority of people are dumb, and democracy seeks to represent the majority of people, what we end up with is dumb rule.

Principle is great unless it gets in the way of practical. Ortega wanted to restrict the right to vote yet didn't want anything to do with the tax burden.

IMO, a manufactured argument. Doesn't take a Joe Sidewalk IQ to recognize that Joe Sidewalk may not succeed w/o a few ingrained advantages like ethnic origin, wealth, education, etc. No coinkydinky here, exactly what Ortega justified - opportunity is reserved for the (self-imposed) privileged class.

Today, we call em snobs.

Folks who care about opportunity-for-all aren't attempting to ensure every Joe Sidewalk becomes a rocket scientist. We just know that supply side anything (other than an excuse to lower the top rate) is baloney.

also, how come everyone's vote counts the same?

Why should it be any different? Are you giving bankers and landowners the benefit of the doubt? That's the way America's founding father's saw it. Well, maybe not Ben Franklin but the rest saw themselves as nothing less than aristocrats who pretty much didn't want commoners to have the right to vote.

Wasn't long until these aristocrats realized they needed actual votes to gain elected office and they pretty much told Ortega where to go.

 

[BrnCow]

Texans on Time’s 100 most influential in the world: Ron Paul and Cecile Richards
It doesn’t look like Ron Paul is going to be the Republican presidential nominee this year. But he did win a pretty nice consolation prize today.

The Texas congressman (along with presumptive nominee Mitt Romney) made Time Magazine’s “The 100 Most Influential People in the World” list. Joining the GOP duo were business, sports and political figures including President Barack Obama, quarterback and Religious Right icon Tim Tebow and “raise-my-taxes” billionaire Warren Buffett.

Ralph Nader, the former third-party presidential candidate, was chosen to write a tribute to Paul. He praised Paul for his “sincere and earnest” nature, along with his ardent defense of civil liberties. Here’s the full tribute:
Why does Congressman Ron Paul draw such large and enthusiastic audiences even though he has no chance of winning the Republican nomination? Because people like a politician without marbles in his mouth. Paul does not censor himself. He comes across as sincere, earnest and independent of his party’s fat cats. In the debates, only he called out the American Empire’s meddling in the business of countless nations around the world. He assails the Pentagon’s bloated budgets and has worked with liberal Democrat Barney Frank to shrink the military-industrial complex. He wants to end our boomeranging wars. Paul, 76, draws a distinction between libertarian conservatives and those corporatist conservatives entrenching a corporate state in which Big Business merges with Big Government. That’s why he is against bailouts. His defense of privacy and civil liberties and his opposition to the war on drugs endear him to people beyond his libertarian base. They even include some progressives who cannot abide his views against health, safety and economic regulations or his denunciation of the Federal Reserve’s fiat money and social-welfare programs like Medicare.

Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood and daughter of the late Texas Gov. Ann Richards, was another notable Texan on the list (even though she lives in New York now). Her tribute was written by recent celeb Sandra Fluke, who became famous when Rush Limbaugh called her a slut. Fluke wrote:

Planned Parenthood’s Cecile Richards, 54, is a role model for all of us as she leads women in pursuit of unfettered access to health care and reproductive freedom. She is also my advocate and that of every woman in America, as I learned firsthand when I was publicly disparaged for speaking out on an issue she has been working on every day for years. Our most basic health care needs — needs that impact our families and our larger economy — are still being questioned. As we look to inspire the next generation of women to join this fight, we’re fortunate to have Cecile as our mentor. There is no better advocate.

Time wrote that the list included leaders around the world who “inspire us, entertain us, challenge us and change our world.” The list, Time continued, reflects “the infinite possibilities of influence and the power of influence to change the world.”

Pics on website:

http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012/04/texans-on-times-100-most-influential-in-the-world-ron-paul-and-cecile-richards/

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Hello Hash,

ok, we agree on one thing, that most people are monkeys and primitive-minded, right?

then, why are we supposed to represent their ideals when it comes down to govern for the better of the whole?

this is the classic argument against Democracy made by Ortega y Gasset.

basically, he says, since the majority of people are dumb, and democracy seeks to represent the majority of people, what we end up with is dumb rule.

also, how come everyone's vote counts the same?

that is, the vote of someone like Mubarak counts the same as the vote of someone like John Lennon.

on the other hand, in a monarchy, all of these idealizations of the "enlightenened proles" goes out the window, since it is not true to begin with.

of course, like you point out, monarchy also has its disadvantages, basically if you get a crazy motherfucker up there, it would wreck havoc; but still, taking down a shitty monarchy is more easy than taking down a shitty 'representative democracy', as the 'constitutional laws' give a specific procedure (impeachment) that is so riddled with obstacles and bureaucracy, that no one in the U.S has ever been impeached. people tried to impeach two, but it never took, they were found not-guilty thanks to constitutional manipulations.

anyway, we're far from the original topic as of now.

be good

peace!

Monarchy leads to inbreeding for pure family lines which is the reason there is the down syndrome gene dumbing down the population in the first place.

I would rather have some dumb people in charge for 4 years then have to go though the process of the french revolution every time an inbred spoiled tyrant gets into power at age 14 and can't comprehend national wealth, and then I have to turn him/her into Marie Antoinette. Believe me, I recognize my monkeyness and I will chop heads off heads off and revel in the blood if it comes to being ruled by a handful of royal tyrants. would much rather just wait for everyone to get pissed off enough to vote, and not have to kill anyone.

Everyone's vote should count the same, but ti does not count the same. We have the very outdated electoral college system. half of people's votes do not count towards anything. all people are created equal. When people get to start assigning vote value then you get to start saying things like poor black people cant vote.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Remember when we busted up Standard Oil? We didn't just wake up one day and sign the bill. It took decades and multiple legal maneuvers before the federal government regained the power to bust em up.

howdy buddy. how ya been?

Ron Paul is against regulation but not against capitalism. he recognized that monopolies prevent capitalism and must be broken up.

 

[bentom187]

the failed war on drugs:[YOUTUBEIF]tCoiDPdrze4[/YOUTUBEIF]

STOP CISPA petition: http://www.change.org/petitions/the...-to-stop-congress-from-passing-the-cispa-bill

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

howdy buddy. how ya been?

Ron Paul is against regulation but not against capitalism. he recognized that monopolies prevent capitalism and must be broken up.

Monopoly busting is regulation.

 

[dagnabit]

Monopoly busting is regulation.

Absolutim is weak.
Being pro deregulation does not mean one is against all regulation. More often than not it refers to regulation that serves interests other than those of the people. The CRA or our punitive tax structure come to mind.

Dont reduce yourself to the mental midgetry of absolutism...

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Monopoly busting is regulation.

but it is intended in the constitution.

 

[T_B_M]

Sometimes I think the best thing that can happen is for the whole thing to crash down so we can start over. The system is so corrupt right now it needs to just fail hard. By not allowing the crappy banks to just fail, we prolonged the inevitable. As soon as the stock market dips, we get Quantitative Easing.

Where does that money go? Surely not to the people for job creating. The Stock market is sure doing well though. Notice the dates the FED issued QE1 and QE2. By not allowing the market to just crash and level out, we will crash that much harder in the future.

Printing money to keep the market afloat is going to end up with lots of retired people very upset at their lost money. Some investment firms are playing games with retirement funds, that's for sure. Meanwhile CEOs are exercising lots of options at these inflated prices sticking other investors with the losses. Its brilliant actually.

 

[bombadil.360]

Disco, you're right in a way... imo, Ortega y Gasset's appreciation, or even insight, into democracy, is pretty spot-on. now, the ways he proposed to "fix" it, are not.

by this I mean, the actuality that Mubarak's vote should not be counted as the same as John Lennon's vote, does not follow that in order to "fix" the issue, we should restrict Mubarak from voting. imo, what follows, is that voting is inherently flawed and that a new option must be sought.

also, in regards to Equality, the actual meaning of it is that all humans deserve to enjoy the same equal human rights; not that everyone is equal or equally gifted.

Hash, a monarchy can be had without so-called royal blood-lines. but my argument about monarchy is just to show how it has happened many times when a good monarch has ruled way better than our modern governments.

but still, democracy or monarchy, in the end, would still be the same modus operandi of our current paradigm; and like it has been said before, what we need is a new paradigm.

which one? I have no clue. what I do know for sure, is that the current ones are useless.

peace

 

[bentom187]

i figured since we are on the topic i'd post these videos from judge Napolitano.

2008

[YOUTUBEIF]RQLVlkGvz4o[/YOUTUBEIF]

[YOUTUBEIF]MWS51iRX--c[/YOUTUBEIF]

[YOUTUBEIF]UBkQJR9YYIY[/YOUTUBEIF]

[YOUTUBEIF]ajEilMhhR-I[/YOUTUBEIF]

follow up q&a in 2009

[YOUTUBEIF]hz5EuiMTpLU[/YOUTUBEIF]

[YOUTUBEIF]aQ4e_IsUYxc[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

but it is intended in the constitution.

good point

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Absolutim is weak.
Being pro deregulation does not mean one is against all regulation. More often than not it refers to regulation that serves interests other than those of the people. The CRA or our punitive tax structure come to mind.

Dont reduce yourself to the mental midgetry of absolutism...

Lol. Never made the tree vs forest argument, I made the tree-is-wood argument.

I could say nice try but I'd be kidding.

 

[icon]

 

[dagnabit]

Lol. Never made the tree vs forest argument, I made the tree-is-wood argument.

I could say nice try but I'd be kidding.

Forests arent wood?

Criticize talk of deregulation by suggesting allowed monopoly or criticize mj legalization by suggesting crack addiction.
Both are absurd absoltist hyperbole.

Plastic forest of wooden trees indeed

 

[bentom187]

http://www.examiner.com/article/ron...-new-york-town-hall-meeting-1?cid=db_articles

Ron Paul attracts 4,400-plus voters to Ithaca, New York town hall meeting




2012 Republican Presidential candidate Ron Paul drew a remarkable 4,400-plus supporters and undecided voters to his town hall meeting in Ithaca, New York ahead of the Empire State’s Tuesday, April 24th Republican primary.

Ron Paul’s town hall meeting occurred at 7:00 p.m. ET at Cornell University’s Lynah Rink, located at 536 Campus Road in Ithaca, NY 14853. At the event Dr. Paul discussed his platform of constitutionally-limited government, restoring economic and civil liberties, and elements of his path-breaking ‘Plan to Restore America,’ an economic blueprint designed to reign in federal government spending, growth, and interference in the economy.

Ron Paul’s Ithaca town hall meeting at Cornell University was organized by ‘Youth for Ron Paul’ (YFP). YFP, an initiative of the Ron Paul 2012 Presidential campaign, launched in September 2011, and since its inception, students nationwide have organized 607 chapters and recruited more than 76,000 people. To learn more about ‘Youth for Ron Paul,’ including how to sign-up and establish a local chapter, visit the YFP website by clicking here. http://youthforpaul.com/

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Forests arent wood?

Never broached that aspect, Einstein. You can broach it but you can't rightfully rebuke until somebody makes the argument. Don't be the George Zimmerman of debate.

Criticize talk of deregulation by suggesting allowed monopoly or criticize mj legalization by suggesting crack addiction.
Both are absurd absoltist hyperbole.

Plastic forest of wooden trees indeed

your interpreter's whacked.