Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[SpasticGramps]

Ron doesn't anticipate a price standardization, he has some hybridized idea that IMO hasn't exactly been calculated. I get the impression a for-real gold standardization would take the 1930s $39 per ounce price and today's price and standardize somewhere between the high and low.

He saying allow metals to be used as legal tender in conjunction with the (audited) FED's FRN. The price would set by the free market. Like in the currency exchange market was before all of the central banks starting intervening on a weekly/daily basis. If they FED screws around and prints too much it will drive the price of legal tender gold up. It would keep them honest.

We'll really just see what happens after the next FED bubble bursts. They'll have exhausted all their tools at that point, particularly Crtl+P, and they cards will fall as they may. Then we'll see what we have to work with going forward.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

2 out of 5 members found this post helpful.

Verbatim reporting with zero commentary i.e. opinion, editorial...
Zero context errors because there's no added contextualization.

If the link was infowars there wouldn't be a problem. Thing is, infowars couldn't more accurately report the parts in direct quotation.

What exactly rates as unhelpful?

Ron Paul's message?

The fact that Ron Paul's the messenger?

The fact it was reported?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

He saying allow metals to be used as legal tender in conjunction with the (audited) FED's FRN. The price would set by the free market. Like in the currency exchange market was before all of the central banks starting intervening on a weekly/daily basis. If they FED screws around and prints too much it will drive the price of legal tender gold up. It would keep them honest.

We'll really just see what happens after the next FED bubble bursts. They'll have exhausted all their tools at that point, particularly Crtl+P, and they cards will fall as they may. Then we'll see what we have to work with going forward.

Allowing the market to determine the price of gold would subject our economy to price swings. Coupled with few monetary policies (which Ron advocates a return to) 18th, 19th and pre depression recessions were more frequent, more severe and longer than post depression era recessions.

FDR didn't know how much gold existed in the country so he rounded it up and paid cash exchange in order to stabilize the economy and assist ending bank runs. People want to hoard gold and that alone makes for few haves and lots of starving people as price volatility directly effects the overall economy.

Is this why gun lubbers recommend a basement full of ammunition? It's not that gub will take our guns as much as they'll round up our gold?

 

[Snout]

Allowing the market to determine the price of gold would subject our economy to price swings. Coupled with few monetary policies (which Ron advocates a return to) 18th, 19th and pre depression recessions were more frequent, more severe and longer than post depression era recessions.

That's not true at all. None were nearly as long and as bad as the great depression. And all were caused by government intervention anyway.
The main reason behind the booms and busts was basically the same thing. The government manipulation of the free market. The availability of low interest loans or loans that wouldn't be made under free market conditions. The risk was too high. The "free money" principle caused the mal investment.

FDR didn't know how much gold existed in the country so he rounded it up and paid cash exchange in order to stabilize the economy and assist ending bank runs. People want to hoard gold and that alone makes for few haves and lots of starving people as price volatility directly effects the overall economy.

When FDR screwed around with gold he chased it out of the country and out of the economy. Gold was under valued by FDR as he waved his wand and gave it a value. People will hoard gold ESPECIALLY when it is under valued. Greshams law.

people probably wouldn't hoard nowadays as much as we like to spend.

 

[SpasticGramps]

18th, 19th and pre depression recessions were more frequent, more severe and longer than post depression era recessions.

"More frequent" Debatable. "More Severe" True and False. Bad decisions were cleared out quickly and capital was reallocated to productive means for quicker recovery. "Longer" False. Recession were sharp and quick allowing for real recovery. Government intervention prolongs the misery and doesn't allow for capital to be reallocated quickly.

This housing debacle is just one example. We are going to string this out forever prolonging the misery. If housing prices had been allowed to crash to fair value the market would have cleared out allowing for recovery. Instead we are throwing hundreds of billions of dollars to attempt to prevent housing from going down anymore when it must find bottom before it starts to recover.

So not only is intervening prolonging the housing crash we are running up tons of debt which serves as a further drag on the economy in the long run.

Another example would be Iceland vs Greece. When Iceland collapsed they defaulted, told the bankers to fuck off, wiped the creditors out, threw the corrupt in jail, and are experiencing a nice recovery. Greece on the other hand has had hundreds of billions wasted on it to try and prevent default, counter productive austerity measures have destroyed the economy, and now they are on the verge of a full scale banking occupation with an escrow fund being set up such that all states revenues will go to it and creditors (banks) will be paid interest on their bad loans first before money can be used for state functions.

Intervention prolongs and exasperates the misery, but it's good for the politicians because they can run around and pretend like they are doing something and buy votes.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

That's not true at all. None were nearly as long and as bad as the great depression.

What's not true is what you interpreted from my post

Lets compare recessions to recessions. Depressions are another thing entirely.

Don't just count the number of recessions, measure how long they last and measure how long ago the previous recession ended. That way we can measure wire-to-wire each duration of recession-free periods. That's how we choose policies. None are perfect but we try to manage what proves best statistically.

Pre free-banking era experienced 9 recessions in 38 years. We endured a total of 18.5 of 38 years in recession.

Free-banking era wasn't any better. We experienced 23 recessions and one Great Depression. In less than a century, we clocked more than 42 years recession (before the Great Depression hit.)

And all were caused by government intervention anyway.
The main reason behind the booms and busts was basically the same thing. The government manipulation of the free market. The availability of low interest loans or loans that wouldn't be made under free market conditions. The risk was too high. The "free money" principle caused the mal investment.

You're not willing to measure, let alone apply. We have statistics that measure [doing nothing] as opposed to [doing something] and everything in between. At least in the historic sense, we know what policies work and what policies don't.

When FDR screwed around with gold he chased it out of the country and out of the economy. Gold was under valued by FDR as he waved his wand and gave it a value.

Price fluctuation had much to do with 32 recessions totaling more than 60 years of recession in less than 140 years of monetary policy (or lack of it). That's all before the Great Depression.

People will hoard gold ESPECIALLY when it is under valued. Greshams law.

That's one in the negative column for gold as a monetary standard.

people probably wouldn't hoard nowadays as much as we like to spend.

Back to my other post where I compared pre-depression recessions to post-depression recessions.

Post New Deal reforms, we've experienced recessions measured in months, not years. In roughly 67 years, we've experienced 12 recessions totaling less than 11 years in recession.

BTW, the Great Depression was a result of the free-banking era policies that catered to the top at the expense of everybody else.

 

[SacredBreh]

These guys "Know what is best for us".....??????????

These guys "Know what is best for us".....??????????

This video is hilarious.

Keynesian Economics vs. Austrian Economics

But I'm sure the Keynesians are right this time around. Everything is going to be fine. The central planners know exactly what they are doing. Bernanke said the other day there were no "obvious bubbles." Nevermind the exponential expansion of central bank balance sheets to paper over the last bubble. All is well.

Spastic that video says it all. What a scary comparison, we let the Keynesians go behind closed doors with our bank accounts. How could they have been so wrong unless it was willful?

Well of course they do. I feel safer. Don't you feel safer? I feel safer.


AAAAHHHH..... yeah, but gold coins with his image on them..... aaahhhhh...... mark up.... aaahhhhh gold ....... aaahhhhhhh

Peace--no really I mean PEACE!

As in no more war on drugs, terror (a concept), third world countries with oil, middle class, rights, freedom, Constitution, law, common sense, American citizens!

 

[medmaker420]

I saw this on another blog and loved it lol

Its Super Tuesday Potheads Vote For Ron Paul

I tried the obama thing myself and it didn't work but I know Ron Paul will 100% do what he says he will do. A one in a million politician which no one will give the time of day to.

 

[SacredBreh]

Other rediculous predictions by Ron Paul!

Other rediculous predictions by Ron Paul!

I would like anyone who doesn't believe Ron Paul's monetary policies and predictions of gloom and doom, please, post your response after watching this clip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INvKPYdTs3E&feature=related

Peace

 

[ShroomDr]

The ignorance in this world amazes. Here comes Libya version 2.0. Syria is now being targeted by the banking oligarch that controls our government. Their loyal minion Sen. John McCain is calling for air strikes on Syria. While we fight each other over bullshit the establishment is marching us towards their ultimate goal of WWIII.

Syria is one of the few middle eastern countries without substantial oil reserves.

I highly doubt we intervene.

Russia continues to sell them arms, and without oil, they might as well be darfur.

Dr paul nailed it on fema...
Worthless orginization
Heckuva job brownie.

Without FEMA and federal intervention, Detroit, New Orleans, and the Gulf Coast would be desolate wastelands. Florida after Andrew in 1992..

Some things 'sound nice', even when they are not practical in a 21th century society.

I would like anyone who doesn't believe Ron Paul's monetary policies and predictions of gloom and doom, please, post your response after watching this clip!

The dollar has no competitor. Its closest 'competitor' is in shambles.

Ron Paul still believes the dollar is tied to gold. he thinks the discrepancy between the two is 'a bubble'.

But, THE WORLD decided after Nixon Shock, Dollars are better than gold. (IE. Nixon says "we are all Keynesian" this equals, 'if you dont trade your 'reserves' dollars for gold, you are keynesian'.)

The WORLD could have traded every dollar they had for gold (and RON would be ecstatic), but THE WORLD did not.

THE WORLD bought in. They didnt have to.

THE WORLD is just as fucked because now they sit on Dollars, not Gold.

(CHINA is FUCKED because they own so many DOLLARS.)

Ron Paul is convinced gold is going to be the reserve currency again, the only way this happens is if he gets a bunch of people to agree with him (what ive previously refereed to as 'preaching for doom').

The only people who gain from a 'new reserve currency' are the holders of whatever it will be. Sea shells, soft metals, or paper printed by some other organization. I say this only happens if you BEG for it.

-

 

[GP73LPC]

along the Super Tuesday topic; does Ron Paul have a chance to win a state tonight...?

or is it mittens all the way?

 

[SpasticGramps]

Spastic that video says it all. What a scary comparison, we let the Keynesians go behind closed doors with our bank accounts. How could they have been so wrong unless it was willful?

That video is something else right? What's worse is the corporatist MSM media continues to parade around the same Wall Street shills, who got it all wrong, "as experts" day in and day out to explain what is going on post '08 Panic. They have the same Keynesian analysts preaching hide your head in the sand eternal optimism. Why? Because Wall Street and our consumer based economy is built on the false premise that tomorrow will always be better than today so you should always buy buy buy and spend spend spend because everything is always going to keep going up up and up.

Austrians are not welcome, are labeled fear mongers, and ridiculed because we point out the uncomfortable flaws of the Keynesian paradigm. These ugly truths promote critical thinking instead of market amnesia which is critical to keep the masses money in the rigged casino.

Most of the elites believe in what they are doing IMO. Keynesianism is the pillar on which modern economic theory is built. It's taught at all the Ivy League universities whose graduates are paraded around as central planning masters of the universe who know everything. Their word is taken as gospel. They operate with impunity and have a demi-god status.

Their linear economic models and historical viewpoints make up, what I call, the Wall Street Religion. Today is really a different version of what Keyen's was all about. It's really Neo-Keyensianism. Institutionalized Wall Street propaganda the infects all MSM and institutions of higher learning.

I have a hard time believing that Bernanke is that dumb though or that he doesn't know central banks balance sheets are now a bubble. He has to lie to keep the con going. Either way it's not good.

Here is my favorite Austrian. Kyle Bass who manages Hayman Capital and has made millions placing small asymmetric bets on the collapse of the housing bubble and now the sovereign debt bubble. The lady interviewing him is a Keyensian, of course. Notice how when he breaks down her argument using logic and mathematics to expose the ugly truth her only recourse is to get pissed off and blame him for causing the crashes. Shroom Doctor calls it "preaching for doom" lol. Sorry sometimes reality sucks.

Her denial is so deep that she absolutely cannot reconcile the fact that he and other prudent investors were/are placing bets on mathematically determined flaws of the Keynesian paradigm using widely accepted investment vehicles. Every crisis has some scapegoat for them. Some evil boogeyman to blame. It can never be that the economic theory is unsound thus making it's failings predictable. The question then just becomes one of timing. And that's why even after a major crisis everything is forgotten and the same eternal optimism is preached by the Wall Street shamans, until the next crisis "unexpectedly" comes that "no one could have seen coming."

Hardtalk: Kyle Bass

 

[dagnabit]

Having lived through fredrick,Aaron,Ivan,opal,andrew and katrina I can say with some reliability the gulf coast would not be a desolate wasteland without fema.
Without fema there would be a lot less blue roofs..
Locals call them "fema shingles"
We call 'm blue yards

 

[whodare]

anyone who think fema does more for disaster survivors than private citizens and companies probably hasn't lived through a natural disaster...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I find opposing views much more enlightening than token anonymous rep.

Some of these folks lost everything they had. Church will donate some clothes, temporary shelter (if they're lucky) and a few bucks to buy food for a very short time. Without FEMA many of these folks wouldn't have the opportunity to reestablish their lives and contribute to society. Why folks treat low interest loans like giveaways I'll never understand.

Ron Paul is no stranger to applying for federal disaster assistance.

 

[dagnabit]

Obfuscation...
Its not about churches. Its about allowing the states ti handle it.
How does it make good sense to take money so the state can request it back when disaster strikes?
If it were never taken in the first place there would be less delay and admin cost.
While our guard troops shlike be here to help in these disasters they are busy killing brown people.
Fema flood zone insurance is a joke!!!
Have you ever tried to read a fema flood zone map?
Fema offered me their "help" after the storm. No thanks.
Those loans are just as bad as student loans.
Debt is no way to help anyone.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I would like anyone who doesn't believe Ron Paul's monetary policies and predictions of gloom and doom, please, post your response after watching this clip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INvKPYdTs3E&feature=related

Peace

Awesome video. Exactly what I was talking about in my above lengthy post.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

ron is doing ok

 

[ShroomDr]

anyone who think fema does more for disaster survivors than private citizens and companies probably hasn't lived through a natural disaster...

I hung FEMA tarps after Katrina and Rita.

People were stopping us at gas stations trying to get FEMA tarps. NO ONE ELSE HAD TARPS.

(they only print FEMA on one side of the tarp!)

REAL LIFE, people living through a nat disaster, wanting FEMA's help.


================

ANYONE KNOW RONS CHANCES IN Alaska OR Idaho?


-

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Obfuscation...
Its not about churches. Its about allowing the states ti handle it.

States don't have the money budgeted for what in many cases happens only once a century. FEMA has paid approximately $51 billion toward Katrina damages and churches have contributed about $3 billion. There's an estimated $20+ billion shortfall that churches can't afford.

So what you consider obfuscation is merely disagreement. You won't accept even baseline standards of fact so you're at liberty to diss whatever you want.

How does it make good sense to take money so the state can request it back when disaster strikes?

Check into how insurance works. Lots of people pay far less than the cost of total disaster. Fortunately, lots of people don't have to experience total disaster to get a return.

Establish an argument before you make one. You don't even know what your own state pays toward emergency management, let alone compared to what it receives. Much less 49 other states. We all hope you'll never experience natural disaster that breaks you back. But if it happens, we'll all bend in hopes you don't break.

If it were never taken in the first place there would be less delay and admin cost.

You're totally ideologically based with no understanding of how this works. We don't have a proportionate number of disasters to spread around the country. Disaster relief revenues are proportional to their respective states. You pull delay and admin costs but you don't have those costs, let alone comparison costs to support your argument.

While our guard troops shlike be here to help in these disasters they are busy killing brown people.
Fema flood zone insurance is a joke!!!
Have you ever tried to read a fema flood zone map?
Fema offered me their "help" after the storm. No thanks.
Those loans are just as bad as student loans.
Debt is no way to help anyone.

You're free to float your own boat.


You're not alone. I happen to disagree with lots of shit but I live with 310 million people and the majority of that 310 million has far more sway in policy directions than I do. I can take solace in the fact that some things actually go my way.

I can bitch about all the stuff that doesn't go my way. Doesn't necessarily make your difference of opinion an obfuscation.