Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[itisme]

split hair. = Vietnam era provides direct connection between inflation of the money supply and war finance.

LOL

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

wow debt is "revenue"?
T-bonds are not revenue they are debt. managed by? the bureau of..wait for it.....DEBT!!!

thats right the bureau of fucking DEBT!!!

You're not countering the argument, you're sustaining it. We paid for the war, we just financed it for a few decades. It's takes years for interest to mature so that in itself says the idea the fed is printing worthless money just glosses over aspects the messenger doesn't want to see nor convey. He's either obtuse or he's duping you.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

split hair. = Vietnam era provides direct connection between inflation of the money supply and war finance.

LOL

one problem - you can't point to the hyper inflation

Ron's a crafty little feller. He doesn't pull this half-happen shit on people who know how we generate money.

 

[whodare]

one problem - you can't point to the hyper inflation.

Maybe not hyper inflation but certainly a significant jump.

Funny looks like we had the highest rates of inflation right after the fed was created

 

[itisme]

Please note we have both used different sources proving the same point to you. Where is your evidence?

War increased domestic spending accelerated inflation, maybe not hperinflaton but then again......WHO IS THE ONE SPLITTING HAIRS HERE?

War induced Accelerated inflation / Hyperinflation.....Who is spliting hairs.

The Nixon Shock was a series of economic measures taken by U.S. President Richard Nixon in 1971 including unilaterally cancelling the direct convertibility of the United States dollar to gold that essentially ended the existing Bretton Woods system of international financial exchange
in the early 1970s, as the costs of the Vietnam War and increased domestic spending accelerated inflation,[1] the U.S. was running a balance-of-payments deficit and a trade deficit, the first in the 20th century. The year 1970 was the crucial turning point, because foreign arbitrage of the U.S. dollar caused governmental gold coverage of the paper dollar to decline from 55% to 22%. That, in the view of neoclassical economics and the Austrian School, represented the point where holders of the U.S. dollar lost faith in the U.S. government's ability to cut its budget and trade deficits.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Oh, I guess inflation is now hyperinflation. Nobody suggested interest rates are static.

A meteor might hit the earth but it isn't imminent. Ron Paul has to tweak imminent but all he has is words.

Double digit inflation was a product of two oil embargoes betwixt two recessions. These recessions weren't bad in their own right, they were exacerbated by the oil embargo and energy crisis. Long story short, we had the ability to manage interest rates when unforeseeable forces took place. Not sure Ron's Paul's plan involves anything other than suffering the consequences.

Don't forget, iverstors made a shit load of money in those times. My first guaranteed investment paid 20% compounded APR and I doubled my money in less than 5 years. Good thing about finance is lemons can become lemonade - you just can't squeeze too hard.

Just like QE today, Ron Paul doesn't present all the information. He rambles like we print money against thin air and give it away, never once mentioning the word "loans". Obviously those loans won't be paid back but only when you get that far in the conversation is that met. Up and to that moment, the fed gives it away.

IMO, some folks aren't considering or aren't aware of aspects involved in whatever they're worrying about. In the process, it appears some will reject reality and accept the wildest scenarios.

 

[whodare]

I get it now your old, the years of brainwashing are too hard to overcome.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... i.e. it's gonna blow up. You have to accept that as fact before Ron's no-detail slogans appear palatable. Leave a few details like compound interest maturation and interest bearing loans out of the picture and all the sudden we're dancing around the presses with reckless abandon. Nobody on this earth runs their monetary business like Ron Paul advocates. Remember, nothing less than a gold standard would end fractional reserve. Therefore, fractional reserve will not end. Even if Ron returns to a tax-free coin business, we're not ending fractional reserve. So the whole schpiel that Ron's plan would prevent financial doom is a non-starter. Too little gold.

 

[itisme]

evidentally there is not difference between

accelerated inflation = inflation These things are't equal.

We said maybe not HYPERINFLATION like Zimbabwe but not regular inflation. We understand there is a middle ground, do you?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I understand it's all over the place. When hyper inflation is threatened, less than is presented as evidence.

logic might suggest the doom scenario painted is over dramatization.

 

[itisme]

I understand it's all over the place.

Did we just agree? I told you there is a GOD

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Uh, watch God's horns, there. You're all over the place.

 

[itisme]

Uh, watch God's horns, there. You're all over the place

We said maybe not HYPERINFLATION like Zimbabwe but not regular inflation. We understand there is a middle ground, do you?

Yeah, I see how you could be lost.

Taking gas and food prices into account and not only what the Gov't deems inflation woud be wise.

Golds rising, Golds rising....only means the USD$ is falling, the USD$ is falling.

If you don't know that nor the current trend of the USD vs GOLD &/or SILVER prices....
They have an inverse relationship.
All that above input in valid data, not my rhetoric or spin.

John D Rokefeller-"Competion is sin" They legislate away competion.

Can you say, I want Gov't Health care & a Centralized a banking system for the Elite.

 

[ShroomDr]

Anyone want to refute that Louis XVI and Nicholas II concentrated wealth bough their country anarchy and themselves executions?

This is a Ron Paul thread and current events that attach make since, I think your reaching.

Im 'reaching' back less than 100 years with the Czar.

Ron Paul's central tenant of his campaign is financial reform, something those two desperate needed.

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

-George Santayana
Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, page 284

Ron Paul offers financial reform like the Czar did in 1905. Its not going to fix problems, its only going to make them worse.
-

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

We said maybe not HYPERINFLATION like Zimbabwe but not regular inflation. We understand there is a middle ground, do you?

Yeah, I see how you could be lost.

Yeah, like you lose the whole investment aspect from your at-best, half picture. If you're used to living paycheck to paycheck with zero investment, I could see where you might gain zero investment information and how to capitalize on it.

Right now you want gold to stuff in your mattress. There's just not enough of it. This ain't theory, there's not enough gold.

Taking gas and food prices into account and not only what the Gov't deems inflation woud be wise.

Golds rising, Golds rising....only means the USD$ is falling, the USD$ is falling.

And you have to convince yourself the trend won't change. Wall Street investors thought housing prices wouldn't tank

Rising gold prices don't suggest the dollar is falling against other denominations. Earth to itisme - there isn't enough gold to float your rubber duck in the bathtub.

If you don't know that nor the current trend of the USD vs GOLD &/or SILVER prices....
They have an inverse relationship.
All that above input in valid data, not my rhetoric or spin.

John D Rokefeller-"Competion is sin" They legislate away competion.

Can you say, I want Gov't Health care & a Centralized a banking system for the Elite.

I can say you have a few soundbites.

 

[itisme]

Some of the biggest men in the United States,are afraid of something.

In his 1913 book The New Freedom, President Woodrow Wilson stated:

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men´s views confided
to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the
field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know
that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so
interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak
above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

 

[whodare]

Oh, I guess inflation is now hyperinflation. Nobody suggested interest rates are static.

Funny you brought up hyperinflation I only said they funded Vietnam through inflation and you were directed to three sources to back it up.

Double digit inflation was a product of two oil embargoes betwixt two recessions. These recessions weren't bad in their own right, they were exacerbated by the oil embargo and energy crisis. Long story short, we had the ability to manage interest rates when unforeseeable forces took place. Not sure Ron's Paul's plan involves anything other than suffering the consequences.

Maybe it goes back further...

Like the 1920s and 1990s, the decade of the 1960s was a period of remarkable prosperity in the U.S. as measured by such statistics as GNP and the unemployment rate. While the 1950s included several periods of stagnation and recession, the following decade was a period of nearly unblemished prosperity. The economy grew at a brisk pace and employment and wages grew at good rates. America was able to fight the Cold War, the Vietnam War, the war against poverty, and win the space race, simultaneously. The only noticeable negative effect was a mild uptick in price inflation.
Credit for the expansion was given to two primary factors. The first factor was scientific management of the economy by the "new economists", Keynesians, who were brought to Washington to help fine-tune the economy with fiscal and monetary policy. The second factor was the new technology that was introduced into the economy, particularly computer technology, consumer electronics, and technological advances related to space exploration.
Academic economist Arthur Okun was a prominent member of President Johnson’s Council of Economic Advisors. Right before the crash he described the economic expansion as "unparalleled, unprecedented, and uninterrupted." Okun believed that the economy was on a new "dramatic departure" from the past.
More importantly, revolutionary changes occurred in money and banking. The U.S. Treasury stopped issuing silver coins in 1964 and Gresham's Law insured that Americans were soon using nothing but clad coins that only looked like the old silver coins. Silver certificate notes were recalled in 1968 and replaced by Federal Reserve notes. In August of 1971, Nixon initiated a "new economic policy" that closed the international gold window. The U.S. had printed too much money during the 1960s and had caused a "run" on the dollar by foreign central banks who sought to cash in their dollar holdings for gold. Despite his promises to the contrary, Nixon also instituted comprehensive wage and price controls in an attempt to block the rising price inflation before his reelection campaign. The Bretton Woods system, where currencies had fixed values in terms of gold, inevitably collapsed. Thus the last links between gold and U.S. money were broken and a completely fiat money was established.
The bubble of the 1960s and subsequent collapse have been well chronicled by John Brooks in his book, The Go-Go Years. The "go-go 60s" refers to the market for technology stocks during the 1960s when the "Nifty Fifty" emerged as a list of "one decision" stocks that could be bought and held forever. This list of stocks included Coca-Cola and IBM as well as troubled companies of today, such as Xerox and Polaroid. Like the investment trusts of the 1920s, mutual funds were touted as the fastest path to riches for the common man. As the bubble expanded, investment gurus such as Gerald Tsai used aggressive investment techniques to generate huge increases in the value of their mutual fund shares, while others made millions building the conglomerate corporations that spanned many industries and nations. Brooks well captured the euphoria that emanated from this new-era stock market: "As mutual-fund asset values went up, new money poured in. Tsai and others like him seemed to have invented a money-making machine for anyone with a few hundred or several thousands of dollars to invest."[1]

Civilian unemployment increased from well below 4% to just over 6% by the end of 1970. The rate then retreated to 5% in 1973 only to skyrocket to 9% by mid-1975—the highest rate since the Great Depression. The unemployment rate remained above the normal level of 5% for the next two decades, including ten double-digit months during 1982-83.
The experiments of the new economists also resulted in higher price inflation, as would be expected from the "stimulating" fiscal and monetary policy of the 1960s. From the beginning of 1946 to the beginning of 1965 the consumer price index increased by 71.4%, but then increased 20% by the end of the decade. From 1965—when the experiment began in earnest—to the end of 1980 the CPI increased by 176.6%. The experiment had tripled the rate of inflation experienced by consumers.
The stock market as measured by the Dow Jones index decreased 25% between 1969 and 1971 and then lost another 20% by mid-1975. However, the real losses in the stock market were larger and longer lasting than an ordinary chart of the Dow might suggest. If the value of stocks is adjusted by price inflation as measured by the Consumer Price Index, a clearer and more disturbing picture emerges. The inflation-adjusted or real purchasing power measure of the Dow indicates that it lost nearly 80% of its peak value. This indicates that the economic pain of the 1970s and early 1980s may have more closely resembled that of the Great Depression of the 1930s than previously thought.
The decade that began with recession and the abandoning of the gold monetary system saw the emergence of stagflation (stagnation + inflation) and ended with the coining of the "misery index" (inflation rate + unemployment rate) by presidential candidate Ronald Reagan. While not recognized in the statistical senses as a decade of depression, and certainly not as a great depression, the decade was nonetheless a period of economic gloom and despair that was compounded by Watergate and defeat in Vietnam.[1]

Just like QE today, Ron Paul doesn't present all the information. He rambles like we print money against thin air and give it away, never once mentioning the word "loans". Obviously those loans won't be paid back but only when you get that far in the conversation is that met. Up and to that moment, the fed gives it away.

If as you say the "loans" won't be paid back what wrong about saying they "gave it away"

IMO, some folks aren't considering or aren't aware of aspects involved in whatever they're worrying about. In the process, it appears some will reject reality and accept the wildest scenarios.

I think it's fair to say none of us here know or fully understand the markets, its mechanisms, and the forces that act on them.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Funny you brought up hyperinflation I only said they funded Vietnam through inflation and you were directed to three sources to back it up.

Funny, Ron Paul's piped hyperinflation since the 70s. It's like I say, Paul's message that the sky is falling meets, "Oh yeah?" and now I'm the one piping hyper inflation.

You didn't bring up hyperinflation, your comment started and stopped on the fed printing money. You infer there is no offset mechanism to prevent the very scenario you infer will happen.

Ron Paul's describing a Joe Sidewalk leader of a 3rd world country who doesn't know or doesn't care that printing money has to coincide with backing. And we all know backing doesn't have to be a piece of metal that in our case represents about 1 dollar in every 4500.

If as you say the "loans" won't be paid back what wrong about saying they "gave it away"

QE is loans - w/ interest. You can pretend it won;t be paid back but that don't make it reality.

I think it's fair to say none of us here know or fully understand the markets, its mechanisms, and the forces that act on them.

And I'm not trying to get you to sell your Chevy for a T-Model.

You don't know Ron Paul!

Well, what about practical application?

You don't know your own montary system!

I'm pointing out a few things you're apparently not interested enough to mention.

None of us understand what we're talking about!

... getting warmer.

 

[draztik]

DB are you saying there's not enough gold for a gold standard?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Some of the biggest men in the United States,are afraid of something.

The national bank's charter didn't supersede the private bank's interests. One of the problems of the national bank was it was otherwise a private entity that served it's interests, then the country's.

Revisionist history takes multiple forms. One of the more popular methods is telling only the part of the story that backs whatever you want to reflect. Ron Paul talks about major media ignoring him. I considered being ignored by most economists as evidence whatever discussion might take place would absent a few monetary mechanisms that Paul doesn't understand.

IMO, Ron Paul needs to moderate his preclusion that doom is inevitable.