Roe v Wade overturned.

[Captain Red Eye]

in a court of law? no. pretty obvious, actually.

"maximum freedom" will (always) have limits due to their otherwise encroaching on OTHER peoples rights/freedoms." your right to swing your fists randomly end at the point of anyone elses nose, but not until then.

i understand it to be that which does not deny any other persons rights/freedoms. a womans right to an abortion does NOT preclude your right to consider it a sin/crime. it SHOULD , however, not elevate your right to think that to the point of stripping HER right to the procedure. HER right does not stop you from YOUR rights, unlike the opposite being true. keep trying...

I was using your term "maximum freedom" for the sake of continuity in the discussion. You can have the words back if you like. I like the term maximum liberty, which I think frames it better.

I'm not for violating others consent if they're not trying to violate mine. Not for stripping anyone of rights.
I'm for respecting choices using peaceful means.

I'm glad we agree that slaves had rights before government courts of law recognized it. Rights are not granted by other people they are inherent to all humans.

 

[armedoldhippy]

as usual, we agree on more than the surface conversation would indicate. words (and definitions) vary and matter. you are referring to human rights granted to all by our maker (s) , but frequently denied by other power-hungry people. "no, sorry. i deny that you have the right to do that because it does not align with MY persional beliefs/religion even though i am not affected other than by my disagreement."

 

[Captain Red Eye]

ugh man, ugh

the non tribal type.

what "systems" do the left "embrace" that you're taking issue with?

I would first need a better grasp of what you mean by left ?

I'll attempt a response though.

I'm not for forcibly funded government schools not because I hate kids, but because forcing people to fund my ideas if they don't want to is wrong. If it's wrong for me to do it, it isn't right for you or anyone else to do it either.

Also you didn't mention what kind of creature you are.

 

[armedoldhippy]

I'm not for forcibly funded government schools not because I hate kids, but because forcing people to fund my ideas if they don't want to is wrong.

you believe everyone should be able to opt out of their taxes going for ANYTHING they personally don't like, right? no roads, no hospitals, health care, public school systems for the entire population? am i on target here?

 

[Captain Red Eye]

Just because I pay my taxes doesn't mean that I agree with exactly how they are spent.



It is not prudent to answer questions that have ulterior intention.



You are allergic to taxes.

Thank you for sort of saying, you don't willingly pay for bad things. It's important to recognize that when discussing peaceful means.

 

[Captain Red Eye]

no roads, no hospitals, health care, public school systems for the entire population? am i on target here?

Nope. you're not on target. Put your gun down before you hurt yourself.
Another time I may get in that. I don't want to derail this thread anymore than I have.

Back to bickering about abortion please.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Nope. you're not on target.

convince me. you haven't yet come close.

Back to bickering about abortion please.

we WERE, you just didn't understand it. you want to pick and choose from a menu of what you think your tax dollars should be used for. that aint gonna cut it regardless of your fervent desire.

 

[Captain Red Eye]

convince me. you haven't yet come close.

we WERE, you just didn't understand it. you want to pick and choose from a menu of what you think your tax dollars should be used for. that aint gonna cut it regardless of your fervent desire.

What is your position on a person who has a religious belief that abortions are wrong being made to pay for them?

Is it okay to force a person that may have survived an abortion, is now an adult and struggles with abortion related health issues, to pay for someone's abortion?

(That oughta keep him busy )

 

[nepalnt21]

pay for someone's abortion?

why is this even up for debate?

the mommy killers already made it illegal to use your yard earned tax dollars on those super common leisure abortions

 

[moose eater]

What is your position on a person who has a religious belief that abortions are wrong being made to pay for them?

Is it okay to force a person that may have survived an abortion, is now an adult and struggles with abortion related health issues, to pay for someone's abortion?

(That oughta keep him busy )

There's a separation between church (someone's voluntarily chosen idea of holiness) and State. And the State says "Pay up" to everyone (except for billionaires and the Oligarchs who fund the campaign coffers), no matter what delusions they choose to honor in dogma and imaginary friends.

 

[Captain Red Eye]

why is this even up for debate?

the mommy killers already made it illegal to use your yard earned tax dollars on those super common leisure abortions

I was under the impression that Planned Parenthoods funding is about 30 something percent from government grants etc.

If that's accurate it's quite likely if you follow the money, there are at least some people that have objections to being forced to pay for abortions, no? From their perspective they don't want to kill expectant mothers or what's inside the expectant mother.

Also you used the term "mommy killers", is that an admission that the people seeking an abortion are expectant mothers and the thing inside them is a developing baby? I mean can a person be a mommy, if there's no baby somewhere in the situation ? I'm old and get confused on the lingo people use these days. Enlighten me?

 

[Captain Red Eye]

There's a separation between church (someone's voluntarily chosen idea of holiness) and State. And the State says "Pay up" to everyone (except for billionaires and the Oligarchs who fund the campaign coffers), no matter what delusions they choose to honor in dogma and imaginary friends.

Yes, there is an alleged separation between church and state. Except the State reserves to itself the power to determine what is and isn't a "real religious belief" or not. That's convenient to maintaining power while creating an illusion of "religious freedom".

Agreed, the State says "pay up" or else. It's behind everything they do. Good point. They use the same business model as thugs, except they cloak it in an air of legitimacy with certain rituals designed to instill belief. If you don't believe, they can always fall back on their guns. Pay up bitches and fund some shit you might not like and never asked for. "We keep you safe from other people that rob you, only we can do that".

Do you think people that express a sincere belief that murder is wrong should be forced to pay for government or private funded killings if they believe abortion is murder?

Where do you draw the line on what you'd feel comfortable forcing another person to pay for, if it violates their conscience or religious belief?

 

[nepalnt21]

Planned Parenthoods funding is about 30 something percent from government grants etc.

not for the abortions, which do not constitute the majority of the care they provide, afaik.

 

[nepalnt21]

Also you used the term "mommy killers", is that an admission that the people seeking an abortion are expectant mothers and the thing inside them is a developing baby?

lemme put it this way... did savita want her baby?

 

[Captain Red Eye]

not for the abortions, which do not constitute the majority of the care they provide, afaik.

Are you saying that zero government grant money is used to fund planned parenthood?

Do you know if some of the people that perform abortions have their salary, benefits, tools, office heat, parking lot plowed, telephone lines, office supplies, advertising etc. paid by using government grants?

 

[nepalnt21]

to fund planned parenthood

to fund planned parenthood.... abortions

 

[nepalnt21]

Do you know if some of the people that perform abortions have their salary, benefits, tools, office heat, parking lot plowed, telephone lines, office supplies, advertising etc. paid by using government grants?

it's against my religion to pay for elon musk's perverted foray's into low earth orbit, but here we are... you're really stretching with this one.

 

[Captain Red Eye]

lemme put it this way... did savita want her baby?

So if an unborn baby is unwanted. that is what determines if ending its existence is okay?

If a pregnant mom on her way to have an abortion (baby is unwanted) is gunned down and what's inside the murdered mom also dies, only one person was murdered?

If a pregnant mom on her way to buy a crib is murdered (baby was wanted) and what's inside her dies, then two murders occurred?

That's some interesting word meaning gymnastics. Should potential murderers seeking to avoid add'l, charges only murder women on the way to Planned Parenthood to have an abortion? "Sure I gunned some lady down when she wouldn't give me her pocketbook, but I'm no baby killer" !

 

[nepalnt21]

that is what determines if ending its existence is okay?

dude, no... i was answering you're question. YOU seem to be the one getting hung up on red herrings, i'm just responding.

 

[Captain Red Eye]

it's against my religion to pay for elon musk's perverted foray's into low earth orbit, but here we are... you're really stretching

I'm not making you pay for Elon Musks forays against your will. Is somebody else?

It's against my religion and conscience to force people to fund Elon Musk if they prefer not to and don't have a bona-fide individual agreement with him. Forcing people to pay for things they don't want and didn't ask for would be wrong if I did it to you or you did it to me.

How does it become okay, if somebody forces either of us to fund Elon Musk if we never agreed to?

It's against my religion to force you to pay for an abortion for somebody else if you don't want to.

Would you be like Elon Musk and not give a shit where the money comes from, if it's regarding funding abortions?