Rhodelization of Autos?

[ThePhiloStoned]

Does anyone know if you can induce female pollen in autoflower strains through rhodelization (a/k/a the Soma style of Fem-ing)? This is where you leave buds to overripen for several weeks past their mark and they throw nanners as a last ditch effort to produce seeds before dying.

Here's a description of the process by Soma:

Creating feminized cannabis seeds is an art. Just like art, there are a few different methods of application. I have written about some of my different methods of making seeds in previous HIGH TIMES articles. I have used gibberellic acid, pH stress, light stress, and fertilizer stress to force my female plants to make seeds. All of these methods are harsh on the plants, and some, like the gibberellic acid, are not organic. In my search for cleaner, more earth-friendly ways of working with the cannabis plant, I have found a new way to make feminized seeds. Feminized seeds occur as a result of stress, rather than genetics. All cannabis plants can and will make male flowers under stress. Certain strains like a higher pH, some a lower one. Some like a lot of food, some like much less. There is quite a lot of variety in marijuana genetics, and you can’t treat every plant the same way.

It takes many harvests before you really get to know a particular strain. Just like getting to know human friends, it takes time. I have grown the same strains for close to a decade, and am truly getting to know every nuance the different plants exhibit. I can recognize them from a distance. I must say that I get a lot of help from my friends, both in making seeds and in learning new and better ways of working with this sacred plant.

I named this new method "Rodelization," after a friend who helped me realize and make use of this way of creating female seeds. After growing crop after crop of the same plants in the same conditions, I noticed that if I flowered the plants 10-14 days longer than usual, they would develop male "bananas." A male banana is a very slight male flower on a female marijuana plant that is formed because of stress. Usually they do not let out any pollen early enough to make seeds, but they sometimes do. They are a built-in safety factor so that in case of severe conditions, the plant can make sure the species is furthered.

To me, a male banana is quite a beautiful thing. It has the potential of making all female seeds. Many growers out there have male-banana phobia. They see one and have heart palpitations, they want to cut down the entire crop, or at the very least take tweezers and pluck the little yellow emergency devices out. I call them "emergency devices" because they emerge at times of stress.

In the Rodelization method, the male banana is very valuable. After growing your female plants 10-14 days longer than usual, hang them up to dry, then carefully take them off the drying lines and inspect for bananas. Each and every banana should be removed, and placed in a small bag labeled very accurately. These sealed bags can be placed in the fridge for one or two months and still remain potent.

For the next phase, you need to have a separate crop that’s already 2 1/2 weeks into flowering. Take your sealed bags of pollen out of the fridge, and proceed to impregnate your new crop of females. To do this, you must first match the female plant and the pollen from the same strain in the previous crop. Shut all the fans in the growroom down. Then take a very fine paintbrush, dip it in the bag of pollen, and paint it on the female flower. Do this to each different strain you have growing together. I have done it with up to 10 different kinds in the same room with great success.

I use the lower flowers to make seeds, leaving the top colas seedless for smoking. This method takes time (two crops), but is completely organic, and lets you have great-quality smoke at the same time you make your female seeds. If you’re one of those growers who’s never grown seeds for fear of not having something good to smoke, you will love this method.

You can also use this pollen to make new female crosses by cross-pollinating. The older females with the male bananas can be brought into the room with the younger, unpollinated females after they are three weeks into flowering. Turn all of the circulation fans on high, and the little bits of pollen will proceed to make it around the room. Do this for several days. Six to seven weeks later, you will have ripe 100% feminized seeds; not nearly as many as a male plant would make, but enough to start over somewhere else with the same genetics.

As a farmer who has been forced to move his genetics far away from where they started, I know very well the value of seeds. My friend Adam from ThSeeds in Amsterdam has a motto that I love to borrow these days: Drop seeds not bombs.

What I'm unsure of is if this method will work on autoflower strains or if I would have to use chemical intervention to induce autofem pollen.

 

[CannaZen]

I believe that is hermaphrodite.

Like outdoors plants have different lifecycles and flowering times and so if any one of them began producing male flowers, they could show up more commonly in flowers earlier each time if were allowed to bred like that. Its just my belief. Colloidal silver, i've grown fem seeds and one plant were mutated, its lower node developed a couple male pollensacks preflower to try and sneak in fem male pollen to preflowers. I think the trait could happen earlier or more frequently/more pollen sacks. also one of the lower branches were muted sort of like polyploidy nearby the herm preflowers.

I've seen whole plants 98% male pollen sacks, no induced herm. just a stressed outdoor landrace stressed indoors. Discovered it were a female when i found a few pistils.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Please work to **eliminate** rhodelization genetics from your seed lines. Please, please, please, PLEASE, and thank you!

If you want femmed autos, fem them with CS or STS.

 

[WelderDan]

Soma eventually admitted this was not a good way to produce fem seed. Use STS if you must have fems. Hermies tend to beget more hermies

 

[ThePhiloStoned]

Okay, I literally heard three interviews recently with breeders that use late-flower rhodelization only as their method of retrieving pollen...so I seriously doubt your fears are warranted...and how is this herm-ing if practically all genotypes will produce pollen in this manner...and how tf can you remove rhodelization from your genetics, from what I've read nearly all strains will react in this way...now I understand being weary of stress-induced rhodelization, the kind that occurs from light stress, nute dress, etc...but it seems a little silly to be scared of something that happens naturally across the species...especially since I've yet to see any actual evidence that the pollen is inferior to chemically-induced female pollen...I mean if you guys know of real evidence of this, please share.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Okay, I literally heard three interviews recently with breeders that use late-flower rhodelization only as their method of retrieving pollen...so I seriously doubt your fears are warranted...and how is this herm-ing if practically all genotypes will produce pollen in this manner...and how tf can you remove rhodelization from your genetics, from what I've read nearly all strains will react in this way...

Those are breeders with outdated information. It's difficult for me to believe this method is **still** being pushed around. *sigh* Yes, it's straight up hermie genetics and will produce additional hermie issues as you breed further. Please work to **eliminate** rhodelization genetics from your seed lines. Ty.

No, there are plenty of strains (minus those being bred by the ignorance of breeders you mention) which do not hermie. Not at any point in flower. Not even a month past harvest. Remove it by flowering out cuts of your intended mums. Should they pop nanners (at any point in the flowering period, including late and late-late harvest) they should be destroyed. Period.

You literally want females you have to **force** into being male by removing their ability to produce ethylene. (see silver reversing methods)

 

[WelderDan]

If late nanners are a last ditch effort by the plant to reproduce, to carry on the line, then how would producing only fem seeds be any advantage? The seeds would only be fem, and then the line would die off. Hermies beget more hermies for a reason.

Now if you want to give it a shot, knock yourself out. I have no idea if it will work on an auto, but since the auto gene is different from the herm gene, I see no reason it wouldn't, but there is a reason that Soma eventually abandoned this technique.

 

[CannaZen]

okay so i dont know who knows exactly where and why the trait evolved and is carried in plants, I dont know if it existed wild outdoors its nature. select pressures resulted in a dioecious plant species (having gender within separate individuals) Other species of cannabaceae dont herm to my knowledge, it pertains to sexual chemotype geniality infertility? complex gene sequence algorithms artificial environments, indoors or outdoor. autoflower and ethylene, from my experience and douglas.curtis. unsure about colloidal silver, uncertain as to what caused the polyploidal double branch mutation in vision seeds lowryder auto Fem seed.

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

Does anyone know if you can induce female pollen in autoflower strains through rhodelization (a/k/a the Soma style of Fem-ing)? This is where you leave buds to overripen for several weeks past their mark and they throw nanners as a last ditch effort to produce seeds before dying.

Here's a description of the process by Soma:


What I'm unsure of is if this method will work on autoflower strains or if I would have to use chemical intervention to induce autofem pollen.

I'm positive that you can induce late bananas in autos if they grow out long enough, but I never thought about doing anything with the pollen other than being kind of disappointed when I noticed it. Extra long night cycles towards the end of things might help induce the pollen production.

 

[clearheaded]

Yes many stay alive and will toss out nanners when well past there prime.

as others said its not the best way although can be effective IF proper testing is done. in todays BX1 and poly hybrid non tested "1 ofs" really can give one a higher risk of hermies and where the whole fem seed hermi idea came from. if the line is properly stress tested it can be done succesfully, but if think the plants that do it fastest and produce more pollen may be used to make the seeds, sorta selects for intersex. which most likely doesnt match up with the seed makers model in todays mass market.

STS is so cheap and easy great way to go.

didnt realize soma stopped doing it as seemed like yesterday was promoting it. But again likely didnt allow them to consistently produce enough pollen for commercial quantities. (as plants that produce the least amount the slowest ie less intersexness). OR just farmed out his seed production and the prducers didnt use "soma tek fem".

that all being said may be OK for auto as plants are so fast may not have the time to show intersex untill finished anyway?? and plant is well finished before it stops producing ethylene?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

The worst of two worlds...

Ruderalis intersex.

Keep your pollen far away from me.

 

[HillBillyAlien]

Rhodelization a auto would take way longer then using STS to make fem pollen/seeds

 

[I'mback]

I am not sure who is recommending this method over the rest but, from what I have read we should:

• STS;
• CS; or
• rhodelization.

Rhodelization is a pig and a poke <--- short strokes.

 

[JockBudman]

Why bother with cs sts or rhodelization? You can still, for the moment at least, get regular auto seeds from a few seed sellers. Simply get fems if need be, of the mums you want to use, get regs of lowryder 2 or another auto strain then cross them. Breed a few generations and select for your tastes and after a few years or seasons you'd have a nice stock of fairly consistent auto plants.

Personally I find it much easier to sex a male and bin it than hunt for nannas or pods. And the window of sexing to pollen flying is pretty wide with pure males - I've even had a hard time getting the fuckers to open up in time to breed with a good female. Pollen sacs on the other hand have often been missed by me before it's way too late and my latest grow is seeded up by a fem bean that turned. Never seen hermies on a regular plant - and I stress the absolute fuck out of my grows through sheer incompetence.

Just a suggestion. It's actually my plan for when I have land and a chance to grow in a greenhouse.

 

[TychoMonolyth]

I believe that is hermaphrodite.

...

Not really.

But if you only let the plant go an extra few weeks, then ya. It's a hermie. You have to let it go way past harvest. Like death on the doorstep close. Then you collect the pollen for the next year. Worse case? You have a tough plant that can endure the hardships of bad weather and being abandoned.

I've done it. Not on purpose, but I did it twice. I always plant *way more than I need. This year I have about 500 to harvest. My strategy is to grab the bulk colas first, then go back if my time and the season permits. Then I pic the next round. I repeat until it's gone or the snow flies.

Last year I went out *after the first snow because I was bored and wanted to say thank you to my plants (lol) while picking the odd popcorn bud. This is what I found.

This is Rodelization in action and a direct result of letting a plant go through senescence.

 

[I'mback]

Why bother with cs sts or rhodelization? You can still, for the moment at least, get regular auto seeds from a few seed sellers. Simply get fems if need be, of the mums you want to use, get regs of lowryder 2 or another auto strain then cross them. Breed a few generations and select for your tastes and after a few years or seasons you'd have a nice stock of fairly consistent auto plants.

Personally I find it much easier to sex a male and bin it than hunt for nannas or pods. And the window of sexing to pollen flying is pretty wide with pure males - I've even had a hard time getting the fuckers to open up in time to breed with a good female. Pollen sacs on the other hand have often been missed by me before it's way too late and my latest grow is seeded up by a fem bean that turned. Never seen hermies on a regular plant - and I stress the absolute fuck out of my grows through sheer incompetence.

Just a suggestion. It's actually my plan for when I have land and a chance to grow in a greenhouse.

... perhaps off topic here a little, what is wrong with feminizing seeds from a female plant for the future? Not everyone want's to breed, and autos aren't what they are cut out to be IMHO. Furthermore... from what I have been reading, I rather have my own "homemade seeds" vice what is coming down the pipe.

 

[JockBudman]

... perhaps off topic here a little, what is wrong with feminizing seeds from a female plant for the future? Not everyone want's to breed, and autos aren't what they are cut out to be IMHO. Furthermore... from what I have been reading, I rather have my own "homemade seeds" vice what is coming down the pipe.

Nothing wrong with female seeds if that's what you're into, I don't care much for the flame war over regs Vs fems, I just personally prefer regs.
I'm a simple man who likes to make things as simple and natural as possible for himself. We could go into debates about genetics but I wouldn't want to clutter up someone else's thread or get into a row with someone who's posts I have admired when lurking. Ultimately someone else's choice to do fems doesn't impact on me so I have no quarrel with it
Seedbanks dropping reg lines on the other hand.... Grrr

I'm totally with you on the homemade seeds thing as it's exactly what I do with my regs - even with a small collection I've got enough genetics right now to make more crosses and f2s than I'll ever be able to grow and I suspect we both have the same ideas about "what's coming down the pipe"

About the only argument I could have with you is to point out that feminising is still breeding - you're not guaranteed a copy of the mum, even when bred with herself. As far as I've read anyway.

 

[I'mback]

It would be totally different if we didn't have the stupid "plant count", for which I have found a legal solution

 

[JockBudman]

It would be totally different if we didn't have the stupid "plant count", for which I have found a legal solution

Well sadly I'm in a part of the world where the plant count is zero and any more means jail so I figure, in for a penny, in for a pound

 

[ThePhiloStoned]

Yes many stay alive and will toss out nanners when well past there prime.

as others said its not the best way although can be effective IF proper testing is done...that all being said may be OK for auto as plants are so fast may not have the time to show intersex untill finished anyway?? and plant is well finished before it stops producing ethylene?

Those were my thoughts...this isn't for breeding purposes, given that they're autos I'm not trying to make new strains, just make my own seedstock of auto fems without having to pay the retail cost of said seeds.