nahhhh they are both female
MASS x OGKA ::::::::is a revercing the OGKA and hitting the MSS mother
MASS x OGKA ::::::::is a revercing the OGKA and hitting the MSS mother
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Reversed Backcrossing:)
- Thread starter englishrick
- Start date
>> This is just another snippet from the vast amounts of uter nonsense Rick has posted in this thread. There are so many flawed arguments it would take me a couple of days to go through the whole thread and explain why each of these arguments are erroneous, and at 40 some pages I'm just NOT going to do that.
But riddle me this Rick:
How could an organic tomato farmer produce seeds without selfing?
Some species are selfers, some species are outcrossers. Both selfers and outcrosser require specific breeding schemes that allow improvement of the species in question.
Tomato (lycopersicon esculentum) is a perfect example of a self-crossing plant. Only emasculation of the flowers permits a significant degree of outcrossing / hybridization with non-related cultivars. Tomato plants can self for 20+ generations with no significant loss of vigour.
Try selfing Cannabis for 5 generations using single seed decent and see how far you get in terms of improvement, while maintaining vigour. It won't be far. Thus, selfing is a tool, not a breeding scheme.
1:1 breeding schemes are not conducive to improvement; by definition create bottlencks and narrow the breeding pool to a incredibly damaging degree.
Backcrossing a 1:1 line by choosing single plants to mate to one of the parents FURTHER reduces the genetic variability of the progeny.
Sure it increases homozygosity, but that is not a necessarily a good thing when you consider that it narrows the variability of the traits NOT under selection.
Breeders should slowly move POPULATIONS towards stability of specific traits of interest (as outlined by the CHOSEN BREEDING GOAL), and all the while PRESERVING genetic variability at the loci NOT UNDER SELECTION.
If a seed-maker / HACK doesn't understand the difference of selfing species and outcrossing species, they have NO BUSINESS using techniques that reduce the genetic variability with the gene pool. You are fucking with the amount of variability within the gene pool which limits the potentially available resources that future breeders (who may actually know what they are doing) have at their disposal. You are eliminating alleles that can't be brought back! Once they are gone, they are gone.
Selfing increases homozygosity %50 at every generation. Tomato, an inbreeding / selfing species has had it's genome shaped over thousands of years by repeated selfing and has thus PURGED deleterious or non-viable alleles, the genome is fairly homozygous (nay, incredibly homozygous compared to Cannabis). The selfing process doesn't narrow the gene-pool as it does with Cannabis - an obligate OUTCROSSER.
Outcrossers like humans and Cannabis have genomes that are riddled with deleterious and non-viable (homozygous lethal) alleles. The concept of human brothers creating progeny with their sisters is frowned upon in every culture (except certain Royal families)- and not out of some idealistic moral code, but from evaluation of the progeny of such crosses that have taken place in the past. Siblings certainly created offspring as humans were expanding their population and spreading the world and had greatly reduced fitness and greatly increased incidence of genetic diseases. Observations of the progeny from incestuous crosses created the cultural taboo... the moral objection to the practice.
The same situation holds true for Cannabis. I find myself having to re-build populations out of what has been passed down to me from the past 30-40years of uneducated and uninformed selections and 1:1 matings.
Think of it this way. You are going to colonize MARS. What are you going to do... take ONLY your brother and sister and their respective spouses... and from this miniscule representation of the total human genome go and try to develop a new population through multiplication of the genetics you brought with you? Or are you going to bring as many and as diverse a breeding pool as possible to ensure the future genetic health of your population?
Breeding cannabis is akin to selecting individuals for the development of a Mars colony, EACH TIME YOU CREATE A GENERATION . Breeders MUST consider theses same implications every time they select individuals for their inclusion in or exlusion from a breeding population.
If you plan to engage in a genetically narrowing mating scheme like selfing or backcrossing Cannabis, you should be aware of the consequences and limitations of the breeding scheme and have plans in place to rectify these consequences at future generations.
If you don't understand these concepts, you should be growing ELITE individuals that you may have access to. Leave the breeding to people that aren't going to put the genetic integrity (or what is left of it) of the species in jeopardy by engaging in and promoting the use of breeding schemes that they don't understand, all the while claiming that science backs up their speculations and assumptions, which they have clearly not researched.
Talk of genome topology, QTLs (Qualitative Trait Loci) and such by someone that CLEARLY doesn't even understand the difference between selfing/inbreeding species and outcrossing species is plainly ludicrous... at least to someone that does understand. Rick you have no clue of the work involved in determining QTLs... by your own admission just recently discoverred how to mix STS! Talk about putting the cart before the horse.
Espousing techniques you have not attempted, and have certainly not properly researched does no favours to the species we are trying to protect. We are the guardians of the genome, and with that comes a large responsibility. Please show our species some respect by learning before you become a teacher, so that your students can promote responsible breeding techniques and not further the damage to a genome already under threat.
I'm sorry I don't have time to elaborate further right now, but I hope that you will give this post some more consideration than you did my previous one.
Respectfully,
-Chimera
chimera - thanks for coming back and further explaining your concerns.
i look forward to reading your post again when i've woken up properly!
cloning is ok,,,,,,but ive been mothing clones since 01,,,,its hard an i want to progress
i love Chimera man,,,,,hes 1 of my Heroes
does a female cannabis plant from seed contain all the chromasomes a male plant from seed would? no
i like my girls to be all girl so i expect my males to be all male and have the full range of genetic info so i dont agree with it, results may occur that show it to be a good idea to use self pollen, but its so against my ethics on breeding and genetics.
chimera has an eye for phenos and breeds accordingly, like a responsible breeder
i like my girls to be all girl so i expect my males to be all male and have the full range of genetic info so i dont agree with it, results may occur that show it to be a good idea to use self pollen, but its so against my ethics on breeding and genetics.
chimera has an eye for phenos and breeds accordingly, like a responsible breeder
MSS x OGKA:::::: as i call it "Reverced outcross"
MSS [f] x OGKA[f]........both are females
this is the same way ECSD was made apparently
MSS [f] x OGKA[f]........both are females
this is the same way ECSD was made apparently
i know it raises problems with ethics,,,,,,,this is my problem
id like to experiment in BioHazard conditiond rather than flush the whole idea down the toilet,,,,,,,,
Reverced outcrosses are showing wickid plants lately
id like to experiment in BioHazard conditiond rather than flush the whole idea down the toilet,,,,,,,,
Reverced outcrosses are showing wickid plants lately
i even found a male in Rez`s SSH x OGKA,,,,how crazy is that?
its defo SSH x OGKA too,,,,i can smell the OGKA blatantly
true male too,,,no way a hermi,,,vigorous as fuk
i think its wrong even if its right
its laziness and convenience that is acheivable through other means. genetics is a bit like fate - you can run but you cant hide
if you go too far down the rabbit hole, how do we get back ????
its laziness and convenience that is acheivable through other means. genetics is a bit like fate - you can run but you cant hide
if you go too far down the rabbit hole, how do we get back ????
ECSD & FFA,,,,,,, 2 of the Holy Grail Plants on icmag,,,,,,and both were made using a prossess like what i propose
please dont be lazy...
Changes my entire worldview
why?
I was being sarcastic...
good for you
Do you understand it's impossible to have a scientific discussion about these topics when you fail to have a grasp of the terms being used? Topics like this don't work backward. You don't get to say: I want to reverse backcross these plants, why can't I, don't be lazy. It's pointless to explain everything that's wrong with what you're planning. It's a never ending train of "why"s.
lol.....soon peeps will be climbing over themselvs for seeds like this,,,,,the results speke for themselvs,,,,,ECSD was the first and it wont be the last
