Mate I aren't the one giving out formulas that freaking kill plants so that I can profit from selling chems to the fools who are stupid enough to formulate from the shite formulas I provide. It is one thing to come onto a forum as a member and post garbage for no profit but to register on a forum solely to promote your capitalist venture and then talk garbage (plant killing garbage) is another thing. This isn't about a bloody ego fool - you are a menace period!
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Reverse engineering all those bottled nutrient blends
- Thread starter MisterBlah
- Start date
Mate I aren't the one giving out formulas that freaking kill plants so that I can profit from selling chems to the fools who are stupid enough to formulate from the shite formulas I provide. It is one thing to come onto a forum as a member and post garbage for no profit but to register on a forum solely to promote your capitalist venture and then talk garbage (plant killing garbage) is another thing. This isn't about a bloody ego fool - you are a menace period!
Presumably you're talking about skin care technology re phospholipids - special Dark Master Alien tech and their amazing phospholipid technology that turned out to be Alar right??? Manufacturers BTW use terminology/jargon that sounds impressive to layman but like labeling the jingoism they use is deceptive. Their are a bunch of things to test for in organic components but phospholipids isn't one of them.
MisterBlah
Member
Here's the thing.
1. Killing a plant is harder than you think. I figured you would know this.
2. You come on here and tell me to keep up the good work, but that I should change the way I do things. I agree with you.
3. Then you attack me outright for formulas that you claim are wrong and WAY OFF. So far off apparently that it seems I just threw random fertilizer at a wall and hoped I got the right answer. But you don't back up that claim with any TANGIBLE evidence.
MisterBlah
Member
Seriously, it's ridiculous.
And it seems that all these attacks have come as a result of our emails. Where I did tell you some of my plans. And it seems you decided to share that information here and attack me for it. Presumably to attempt to maintain your credibility? Or was it because I was encroaching on your space? Maybe you are afraid of competition entirely and figure you best bury them while you still can. Seriously, you are attacking me for starting a company selling fertilizer when that is EXACTLY what you are doing yourself. You clearly are threatened by me.
And it seems that all these attacks have come as a result of our emails. Where I did tell you some of my plans. And it seems you decided to share that information here and attack me for it. Presumably to attempt to maintain your credibility? Or was it because I was encroaching on your space? Maybe you are afraid of competition entirely and figure you best bury them while you still can. Seriously, you are attacking me for starting a company selling fertilizer when that is EXACTLY what you are doing yourself. You clearly are threatened by me.
"Killing a plant is harder than you think." Seriously dude - that's your answer? Would you like me to explain the science of plant nutrient interactions to you too? But mate, hang on its really easy to provide a formula that is lacking or in excess and as a result lose yields (for others right???) - the sad fact is too mate that yield losses occur long before deficiencies or excesses become visually apparent
To answer your latter 2 statements - 2) that is until I looked more closely at a couple of your formulas and saw they were bloody plant killers and that based on the horribly wrong formulation both in the base components and numbers it was clear you were utterly clueless where formulation is concerned. What are you planning to learn the science of formulation through experimentation with other peoples crops/yields??? Dude fuck up in the straight business world and you'll get sued. Fuck shit up with the wrong people in this world and you'll get killed. You need to wisen up kid! More importantly you need to go to a school that teaches plant science and formulation.
And 3) "I just threw random fertilizer at a wall and hoped I got the right answer" - yes that is bloody obvious but you didn't get the right answer did you - you, in fact, got it horribly wrong - so wrong that it would have definitely killed plants and if you are so naive as to not see this then God help those who use your formulas. Mate you do not formulate by throwing random fertilizers at shit. A formulator is someone who doesn't need software like Smart!!! (which BTW is completely the wrong software to use in this instance) but someone who understands what fertilizers are required to get from point A to B with precision as to ppm %w/v targets. The thing is a good formulator knows a hell of a lot more than just getting from A to B and mate you can't even get from A to B yet. You need to be able to look at a formula on paper and go no that can't be right and then start again until it is right but you can't look at a formula yet and see that it is horribly wrong let alone see it looks a little bit out. You need to be able to use a formula and from years of experience understand what the probable actives are. You need to be able to smell a formula and pick up the different scents that various chemicals elicit. Hell man, you need to be able to dip your finger in and taste the shit (no shit and not recommended
and be able to pick up a familiar taste. Then you, based on all of this, need to start lab testing for suspected elements and actives in solution. You're years away from this but you are all over forums telling people you have reversed engineered formulas. No - no you haven't. You haven't even been able to successfully mimic their labels. Point being man is you are a danger to yourself and others and that is my problem with what you are doing.No kid safe to say you are no threat to me - you are however a threat to plants.
BTW mate as a tip and I mean this in the nicest way in order to protect you a bit as someone who has spent years taking on various scum in the hydro industry and as someone who has long time links to that industry and the people in it. Do yourself a favour and don't send emails to industry interests or those connected to industry using your own name and an email address that gives out your identity. If you actually do get their formulas right you may step on some very big toes. Take that one for what it is. Listen or don't listen to some words of advice from someone who's been around the block more than once... ultimately its no skin off my nose. Either that pal or you can do as I do and tool up lol
MisterBlah
Member
This is the point of all this, actually.
for if or when it goes beyond simply the elemental composition:
What is Deformulation?
What is Deformulation?
At this point they are more than safe. And let's be more honest and say the point of what you are doing is that your business (i.e. income) is targeting Med growers to make sales of fertilizers. Your whole plan was to put up Med growers favoured formulas and then they could mix them at home and save money. Now that part I like. Good on you and it shows a bit of initiative and anyone who is helping out in the med scene to educate correctly is a great thing!
The part I don't like is these formulas are nothing like the original formulas and the person formulating clearly knows little about formulating and a whole bunch of other important things re the right and wrong way of going about establishing the formulation of the originals so he has precise data to work from. So essentially you are looking to profit at the pain of others because your formulas are nothing like the formulas they are using now. In other words you are just another Canna capitalist looking to cash in on bogus information - which in my books puts you in about the same league as the likes of Advanced Nutrients where your marketing ethics are concerned. Because let's face it pal you're spamming of forums is marketing (all bullshit aside). Thing is at least while AN does feed consumers loads of shite their formulas are reasonably good (if not totally over hyped) So at least when buying AN the punter can grow healthy plants. Conversely quite the opposite is true if they buy your marketing hype.
MisterBlah
Member
You legitimately don't think I am capable of doing it, and that is the best motivation by far. So, thank you for that.
HyperFocus
New member
This Nutrient game is really not easy.
Im coming out with my own Line of Nutrients,
called Asperger Plant Nutrition.
Its beeing developed by Australian ex Rocket Scientists.
Because thats what really needed for sucessfull Formulation.
You cant just mix Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Sulfate and Mono Potassium Phosphate together with some Micros and have a NPK suitable to growing lots of Plants. It cant be that easy right?
Im coming out with my own Line of Nutrients,
called Asperger Plant Nutrition.
Its beeing developed by Australian ex Rocket Scientists.
Because thats what really needed for sucessfull Formulation.
You cant just mix Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Sulfate and Mono Potassium Phosphate together with some Micros and have a NPK suitable to growing lots of Plants. It cant be that easy right?
lol you and everyone else is coming out with a liquid line mate. Who did you use in Oz? I think I know all of the so called rocket scientists there and comparing nutrient formulation chemistry to rocket science/physics if like comparing chalk and cheese. BTW I'm one of the ozzie nute rocket scientists (lol fark man I can formulate nutes with my eyes closed while multitasking on several other things but trust me rocket science is a whole different game and I wouldn't know where to begin) and have formulated an entire line and a bunch of products for various US suppliers so I'm interested in who you used.
Fact is because I don't want to hurt this kid and stop him from what he is doing - more so to push and guide him to doing things right.
It's actually dead simple in a lot of cases to work from stock lab analysis to reverse engineer with. If you have the skills you can even improve the formulas with e.g. surfactants and additional chelators. However, is some cases such as the AN formulas you really need to know your shit and spend serious dollars on lab analysis. Over 10K probably until you crack exactly what they have done so the 10K it cost me (bad debt) to get the original AN formulas I don't see as an utter rip off because for example we recently spent 8K cracking one formula's secret ingredients.
So this kid (the Bill Gates beta tester of hydro) is on the right path for some part albeit he needs to learn a lot and one part of that lesson was learnt here --- I.e. you never work from labels nor do you go to regulatory body DBs and work from these listings. They can be miles off! Most nutes though just contain standard elements and any fool should be able to reverse engineer them from standard lab work. But it takes a good nute chemist to put something special together and this kid is far from being a good nute chemist. What this does mean is when he encounters formulas put together by good chemists he will in all probability miss things which will impact on how his formulas perform against the originals. Basically he needs to go to school and study some chem and plant science but as Canna Capitalist Cowboy I doubt he will.
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The european union has made a ban on T. harzianum and is not allowed to be markted/sold to private pepol.. check it out befor u just if you start selling it to E.U
There are quite alot of professionel agri products, like maxifruite, resistim that contain P in lipid form and they activate the immun system and increase SAR, i use it in my formulations since i see an increase in trichrome density.
The reason why i ask with regard to Canna's boost is that it contains 2.3% P and 3.6K, when u check it for major and trace
It also has some sugar, that is an easy test but to find out what type is a lab thing.
Btw labs that analyse milk are experts in amino acids and do millions test a week, i had some amino analys done at such a lab since i import some GMO Free 40% Aminoacid from india
That's a good bit of info. Why have the EU gone down this road? Any links to the data they have used in regulating it?
Yeah I was being sarcastic because most growers understand phospholipid technology based on Dark Master (Dutch Master) Superdud rebranded and sold as Phosphoload after getting pulled in the US and EU/UK in 2003. Point really being is there isn't anything too amazing re what Phospholipids will do (its also used in nanotech although they likely help with bioavailability which is kinda pointless in hydroponics unless there is a deficiency of P occurring in solution and/or pH is out for optimised P uptake. Although interesting because they do seem to have an effect on the growth stress response. On the other hand Alar/daminozide elicits some pretty strong responses in plants (its a very potent growth retardant and reduces stem elongation). Lot of people been speculating on the actives in Canna Boost and Atami Bloombastic. I expect you will find both products have a masked PGR of some kind in them. And yeah interesting to hear about Trichoderma in the EU.
Just looking at what I can find and came across this..
As regards Trichoderma polysporum strain IMI 206039 (2), Trichoderma asperellum (formerly T. harzianum) strains ICC012, T25 and TV1 (3) , Trichoderma atroviride (formerly T. harzianum) strains IMI 206040 and T11 (4), Trichoderma harzianum strains T-22 and ITEM 908 (5), Trichoderma gamsii (formerly T. viride) strain ICC080 (6), Trichoderma asperellum (strain T34) (7) and Trichoderma atroviride strain I-1237 (8) the European Food Safety Authority (‘the Authority’) could not conclude on the dietary risk assessment for consumers as some information was not available and further consideration by risk managers was necessary. Such further consideration was reflected in the corresponding review reports (9) which concluded that these substances are not pathogenic to humans and are not expected to produce toxins that are relevant for human health. In view of those conclusions, the Commission considers that the inclusion of such substances in Annex IV to Regulation (EC) No 396/2005 is appropriate.
That's from COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) 2015/896
of 11 June 2015
here http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2015.147.01.0003.01.ENG
What I do like about the EU though is they are on it where protecting consumers is concerned. Years ahead of countries like the US and Australia where regulations are concerned. Lol they have banned half the organic components commonly used if organic farming because of the potential health risks they pose - many of them having carcinogenic potential/properties
Actually the UK and I believe the EU have banned organic producers claiming that organic produce is healthier, tastier and more nutritious. Meantime, the mung head corpo capitalists in the US and elsewhere are allowed to spin BS to consumers.
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Sort of looks that way given the SDS http://test.prodana.dk/Files/Images...ucts/Varieties_large/Gødning/SDS_Resistim.pdf
Potassium phosphite 15-35% (jesus man how dodgy is that listing? - what's it to be kids 15 or 35%
CAS: 13492-26-7https://www.chemexper.com/chemicals/supplier/cas/13492-26-7+Potassium+phosphite.html
Sort of demonstrates the point about most weed growers only having an extremely narrow understanding of phospholipids
And yeah phosphite will likely increase resin visually because its stressing the hell out of the plants
Reduce yield but hell man what the??
