Responsible ethical Breeders Needed!

[zamalito]

Daytripper I think i've seen it for sale used on amazon I currently have mj potency but that is a bit older and would like the updated info.

Me and daytripper have had our problems in the past but I have to agree with him though he stated it slightly incorrect. Half of a plants genetic material is transferred to its offspring. This can be more than 50% of the genes since some locus are homozygous. So at each homozygous locus 100% of the genes will be passed on.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

Half of a plants genetic material is transferred to its offspring. This can be more than 50% of the genes since some locus are homozygous. So at each homozygous locus 100% of the genes will be passed on.

hello Zamalito, but this does not mean anything though, it merely means that homozygous locus will be perfect replications of its parents, while others not.
it doesn't mean there will be some kind of genetical degradation in the non-homozygous locus offsprings. if this were true, the specie as a whole would already have been lost to some weird act of negative deterministic genetical law! it's insane to interpret things in such a way imho. but my ears are open for corrections though, as always. one love!

 

[zamalito]

Yeah your right paz it is only meaningful if you take one seed from a cross and self it. Then you have effectively reduced the gene pool substantially. Also selecting one parent of each sex for multiple generations seriously limits the gene pool.

IMO Ideally when preserving landrace the key is to not only try to preserve the gene pool but also increase or maintain the frequency of occurance for the desirable traits. This is done by not only using multiple parents of each sex but also making very good selections out of a large group of seeds. This allows one to preserve the traits that go unnoticed while simultaneously increasing the occurance of desirable traits.

This is not a good technique for stabilization of a hybrid though. When stabilizing you want to decrease the size of the gene pool. This is what makes stability in a hybrid but also creates susceptibility to pathogens and a lack of adaptability in a strain that is already stable.

Personally I feel that certain species eveolve a genetic elasticity also which allows for a gene to code for a different trait in different environments. But like much of what I say its my own theory.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

Yeah your right paz it is only meaningful if you take one seed from a cross and self it. Then you have effectively reduced the gene pool substantially. Also selecting one parent of each sex for multiple generations seriously limits the gene pool.

IMO Ideally when preserving landrace the key is to not only try to preserve the gene pool but also increase or maintain the frequency of occurance for the desirable traits. This is done by not only using multiple parents of each sex but also making very good selections out of a large group of seeds. This allows one to preserve the traits that go unnoticed while simultaneously increasing the occurance of desirable traits.

This is not a good technique for stabilization of a hybrid though. When stabilizing you want to decrease the size of the gene pool. This is what makes stability in a hybrid but also creates susceptibility to pathogens and a lack of adaptability in a strain that is already stable.

Personally I feel that certain species eveolve a genetic elasticity also which allows for a gene to code for a different trait in different environments. But like much of what I say its my own theory.

Zamalito, you touch on a very interesting topic; the differences between stabilizing a hybrid and the way to make seeds that preserve a broad gene-pool. i remember i was told by an old timer spanish grower to always select as many good looking males and allow them all to polinate the best female, the term he used to describe this escapes my memory at the moment.
i still mantain that you don't need 20,000 plants in open pollenation to preserve a landrace though; perhaps you need such a huge field to mantain the possible uses of cannabis that one can obtain through selecting the desireable traits for X or Y use: industrial hemp making, oils, psychedelic.
but still, there's other factors to consider, like the ones we were discussing the other threads such as weather, latitude, etc...

What you say about evolving to produce a genetic elasticity makes a lot of sense too; i always graviate to the theory that there's just one cannabis specie that is very mutable and genetically elastic; this makes our beloved plant even more mysterious; and true plant of the gods you know, by carefull selecting you can condition very different traits for very different uses; but yet it remains the same plant. it is mind blowing really; thing is, if you want to preserve a landrace, one has to understand what this implies, and perhaps this is what happens, people assume that landrace equals killer smoke rather than a wide genepool that allows to bring out whatever trait it is sought from the plant. then, the definition of 'landrace' as used by banks today becomes false, since they have picked these genes from crops used specifically for psychedelic production.

phew... crazy stuff.
one love.

 

[zamalito]

The bottom line I guess is just do the best you can. Sometimes its best to strive for an ideal that can't be met. Most breeders including myself cannot grow out 20000 plants just for one generation. If I only have ten seeds of a great rare landrace its better to do those ten then none at all. If my germination rates go down I do what is neccesary to bring them back up with my breeding that never involves more than 50 plants past the first crop thinning 2 weeks after the germination but ideally I would be growing huge amounts like ogbub or djshort but that is just not feasible.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

^^ just do the best you can, i like that... Zamalito, let me ask you a question, do most breeders/seed producers make their seeds indoors or outdoors? thank you.

 

[zamalito]

Unfortunately most of the commercial breeders are strictly indoors. However I do believe most outdoor growers have to be at least be part time breeders since climates growing conditions and tastes vary. Also since plants grown from seed are more resistant typically yield better than cuttings outside and the inherent difficulty for a strictly outdoor grower to keep mother plants requires outdoor growers keep a large stock of seeds around. I am fortunate enough to have about as good of an outdoor area as possible in the southeastern us which is large enough to allow me the advantage of being able to keep male and pollinated female populations far away from sinsemilla populations. Though since indoor growing is more common and here to stay ideally indoor and outdoor selections should be made over the course of multiple generations. I've got a few indoor hybrids I'm working on with some indoor grower partners. One of the main problems with the commercial companies is they used to be all located in switz canada and holland but It seems that a few of the seed companies have been opening outdoor breeding facilities in the tropics or at least spain which will hopefully bring thingscloser to where they should be.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

....every breeder I have known has a different idea about how to breed......and what to breed with.......every garden ....whether indoors or out holds some passion for them......but it must be said that the best and most secure place for breeding purposes is indoors.....in a controlled environment not susceptible to random pollinations....

 

[Closet Funk]

....every breeder I have known has a different idea about how to breed......and what to breed with.......every garden ....whether indoors or out holds some passion for them......but it must be said that the best and most secure place for breeding purposes is indoors.....in a controlled environment not susceptible to random pollinations....

That's what makes breeding unique, everyone has different ideas and different strains they want to make. If I was a breeder I would definetly have a huge indoor facility for most of my breeding. Although I would have a nice section outdoors just to see how certain strains perform. All my pollination would be indoors because of the random pollination factors.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

....every breeder I have known has a different idea about how to breed......and what to breed with.......every garden ....whether indoors or out holds some passion for them......but it must be said that the best and most secure place for breeding purposes is indoors.....in a controlled environment not susceptible to random pollinations....

i would say a Greenhouse to be the perfect facility for breeding and making hybrids imho... a kick ass glass one

paz.

 

[jaykush]

agreed ^^^^^^

 

[zamalito]

Actually glass absorbs uv the newer non uv absorbant greenhouse glazings are ideal....

I'm being anal I know

 

[- ezra -]

I have a question on the UV angle. since HID lamps have a glass 'jacket' is all the UV filtered out? Does using an air cooled hood or cool tube further reduce the UV since the light must pass through glass, or is there no UV to speak of anyway (sorry I know its a little off topic)

Zamalito - non uv absorbant greenhouse glazings sound great. I do agree with you that if you want to test every aspect of a strain when breeding, natural unfiltered light would be ideal to allow the full spectrum cannabinoid profile.

 

[zamalito]

I may be incorrect but I'm thinking that the more glass there is, the more uv filtered out. With the old metal halide lamps you'd have to inspect them for cracks in the outer glass or they would leak dangerous amounts of uv. They've since put in a safety mechanism so if the outer glass breaks the bulb no longer works. Though I'm also thinking the difference between the uv output of a plain hid lamp and one with an aircooling setup is negligable since hid's are designed to be low uv anyways.