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Stonyherbs
Hey nonstop glad you dropped in! 
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Stonyherbs
Ok here are some pics a couple days after the major defoil of the Blue Hash. Just watching for the changes. 
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Stonyherbs
Well its been six days since i removed the bottom three nodes of growth. Then filled the pots with soil. I also did a major defoil on the Blue Hash but not the RK.
To date the ROYAL is having trouble from the removal of growth. But the blue Hash took it like a champ and is ready for more defoil.
To date the ROYAL is having trouble from the removal of growth. But the blue Hash took it like a champ and is ready for more defoil.
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Stonyherbs
I just realized that today is the girls one month birthday! 
Started them from seed. So i am amazed that they have made it this far. Time really flies. I do have to say as a new grower that its been a fun 30 days. Watching them day and night. Their growth and the changes. I look forward to watching them another 30 days while they veg and undergo major defoilage and training.
Started them from seed. So i am amazed that they have made it this far. Time really flies. I do have to say as a new grower that its been a fun 30 days. Watching them day and night. Their growth and the changes. I look forward to watching them another 30 days while they veg and undergo major defoilage and training.
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Stonyherbs
Hey fonzee. I remove the foliage to encourage shorter length between nodes. Also to promote branching and the creation of bud sites. It will also make it easier to train in my very limited grow space. I am also using LEDs and i want to have both girls trained so the light hits the plant all the way to the bottom for better bud formation.
Now i realize that this is a very contorversial technique. And my goal here is not to have a heated debate about weather it should be done or not. I am just posting the grow and what the results were along the way. However with that being said i do welcome positive feed back about the grow.
So if i mess them up....well lesson learned. There is more than one way to get r done.
Thanks for asking Fonzee.
Now i realize that this is a very contorversial technique. And my goal here is not to have a heated debate about weather it should be done or not. I am just posting the grow and what the results were along the way. However with that being said i do welcome positive feed back about the grow.
So if i mess them up....well lesson learned. There is more than one way to get r done.
Thanks for asking Fonzee.
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Stonyherbs
Fonzee I got the idea from a thread here and it got really heated. Anyway i believe the idea is that i will lose stretch but i will be gaining bud sites. Plus it will be easier to train. I am also under the impression that this will produce bigger more complete buds down to the lower growth. This grow is in a refrigerator. So my space is very limited.
I do believe you are correct and the veg cycle will run longer. How long will be the question. I will flower when i get them trained.
Right now i am just experimenting and having fun.
I do believe you are correct and the veg cycle will run longer. How long will be the question. I will flower when i get them trained.
Right now i am just experimenting and having fun.
Hello
Nice first timer! Looks like things are under control!
I agree on a lot of the points on defoil, I just don't think you have "limited" space yet/is at the point where you need to remove SOME leaves. Next time wait until the plants is shaded a lot more, both self shading but also shading from the plant next to it.
At this point you are just extending veg time, but this in itself could help increase yield because when you flip you will have a bigger root mass(but you will have a longer veg time). A leaf will not absorb all light, some will pass through the leaf to the lower leaves. How much light a plant can absorb is depended on a lot of factors, one is leaf area. When you remove leaves on a small plant, and it's the big sun acclimated leaves, you will end up with small shade acclimated leaves and those cannot handle the high amounts of light. Additionally the total leaf area is reduced by many %.
When you have bud sites shaded by lets say 5 layers of leaves then this bud will receive close to zero light and then removing some big fan leaves can help light getting down there. In this situation you are removing only a few % of the total leaf area because it's a big plant. To prevent removing to many leaves I only pinch off leaves where the node has established as a small branch on a few centimeters.
A last note is that i don't think you really increase yield but you can reduce small bud and increase big buds. So if defoil is to help, you need to know that you will have a lot of small useless buds you can convert to useable buds. But find your own way to do it, different techniques for different situations.
A link on shade and sun plants/acclimation http://plantsinaction.science.uq.ed...-1-3-sunshade-acclimation-and-rainforest-gaps
If your are scratching your head and thinking how hurting/removing leaves can help, then take a look at all the other plants humans are growing and look how many of these are pruned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruning Weed is no magic plant where nature does what we want.
Nice first timer! Looks like things are under control!
I agree on a lot of the points on defoil, I just don't think you have "limited" space yet/is at the point where you need to remove SOME leaves. Next time wait until the plants is shaded a lot more, both self shading but also shading from the plant next to it.
At this point you are just extending veg time, but this in itself could help increase yield because when you flip you will have a bigger root mass(but you will have a longer veg time). A leaf will not absorb all light, some will pass through the leaf to the lower leaves. How much light a plant can absorb is depended on a lot of factors, one is leaf area. When you remove leaves on a small plant, and it's the big sun acclimated leaves, you will end up with small shade acclimated leaves and those cannot handle the high amounts of light. Additionally the total leaf area is reduced by many %.
When you have bud sites shaded by lets say 5 layers of leaves then this bud will receive close to zero light and then removing some big fan leaves can help light getting down there. In this situation you are removing only a few % of the total leaf area because it's a big plant. To prevent removing to many leaves I only pinch off leaves where the node has established as a small branch on a few centimeters.
A last note is that i don't think you really increase yield but you can reduce small bud and increase big buds. So if defoil is to help, you need to know that you will have a lot of small useless buds you can convert to useable buds. But find your own way to do it, different techniques for different situations.
A link on shade and sun plants/acclimation http://plantsinaction.science.uq.ed...-1-3-sunshade-acclimation-and-rainforest-gaps
If your are scratching your head and thinking how hurting/removing leaves can help, then take a look at all the other plants humans are growing and look how many of these are pruned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruning Weed is no magic plant where nature does what we want.
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Good luckFonzee I got the idea from a thread here and it got really heated. Anyway i believe the idea is that i will lose stretch but i will be gaining bud sites. Plus it will be easier to train. I am also under the impression that this will produce bigger more complete buds down to the lower growth. This grow is in a refrigerator. So my space is very limited.
I do believe you are correct and the veg cycle will run longer. How long will be the question. I will flower when i get them trained.
Right now i am just experimenting and having fun.
I like to do way less than you in a grow - that way I have less chances to fuck it up. And it seems like the plant know what to do better than me anyway.
nonstop
Member
if you have time , it is very good techniqe to increase the plants root mass especialy when starting with clones. If you have noticed clones when the grow ends and you pull the plant out of the soil , they have a dence root mass near the serface , where they were first planted and the rest of the soil isnt atall dense with roots. Plants from seeds root with a main root going strate down witch eventualy fills the soil up. If you half fill the pot and wait 2-3 weeks , then cut off the lower branches and fill the pot up with soil , all the stem that is in the soil fills up with roots after 1-2 weeks, making a hole more roots in total. It cuts the plants veg growth for a wile but eventualy you gain a much more prodactive plant , cause of the larger and denser root system. That is my experience anyway. Plus the plants starts off again with a much stronger stem witch makes smaller internodes and stronger branches from the bottom of the plant.
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Stonyherbs
Redfang.... thanks man.
Tbk. It seems like we are on the same page. I only want to increase bud sites and increase bud productuon. By reducing the tiny underdeveloped buds at the bottom level. And i believe getting light to that area is the key.
Fonzee. Many styles of growing. I am sure after a few grows i will be the same way. Right now i am just playing around and having fun. If i were in production then it would be a different story.
Hey Nonstop. Sounds like u got some experience in this. I agree that developing root mass equals more bud. And the methods you describe will acheve that.
Thanks to all for the great input!
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Tbk. It seems like we are on the same page. I only want to increase bud sites and increase bud productuon. By reducing the tiny underdeveloped buds at the bottom level. And i believe getting light to that area is the key.
Fonzee. Many styles of growing. I am sure after a few grows i will be the same way. Right now i am just playing around and having fun. If i were in production then it would be a different story.
Hey Nonstop. Sounds like u got some experience in this. I agree that developing root mass equals more bud. And the methods you describe will acheve that.
Thanks to all for the great input!
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Stonyherbs
sorry Redfang i cant spell
Cigars all around! The BLUE HASH is a girl yep checked her afterwork i am so excited!
Cigars all around! The BLUE HASH is a girl yep checked her afterwork i am so excited!
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Stonyherbs
Update. I watered the girls on saturday. About an hour after i noticed a very nasty smell. It was absolutly putrid. I checked every thing but could not pinpoint the smell.
So...I am using 3Gallon air pots. But i had them sitting in a plastic tray to catch the run off. I noticed some roots poking out from the bottom of the Royal kush. So i removed both pots from the tray and placed them on the racks.
Then i read about root rot. Although rare in soil it is possible. So i used 1 teaspoon of 3% food grade hydrogen peroxide in a gallon of ph balanced water.
I took each pot to the tub then rinsed each pot with one gallon of the solution. Then let it drain completely.
I placed the pots back in the growth chamber on the rack. With the catch pan down underneath.
Happy to report that almost imediatly the smell was greatly reduced and now today the smell from the plants is back to normal. So hopefully crisis was avoided.
So...I am using 3Gallon air pots. But i had them sitting in a plastic tray to catch the run off. I noticed some roots poking out from the bottom of the Royal kush. So i removed both pots from the tray and placed them on the racks.
Then i read about root rot. Although rare in soil it is possible. So i used 1 teaspoon of 3% food grade hydrogen peroxide in a gallon of ph balanced water.
I took each pot to the tub then rinsed each pot with one gallon of the solution. Then let it drain completely.
I placed the pots back in the growth chamber on the rack. With the catch pan down underneath.
Happy to report that almost imediatly the smell was greatly reduced and now today the smell from the plants is back to normal. So hopefully crisis was avoided.
nonstop
Member
air pots have the ability to auto cut off the part of the roots that penetrate the pot. Using a tray witch collected water made the roots viable outside of the pot and then rot in the water in the tray. Just cut off whatever root comes out of the pot without any problem , and make sure not to much water stayes in the tray each time after watering. Now that you put the pots on a rack even better , but be aware they will need watering more often now as they will dry more quickly.
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Stonyherbs
Thanks nonstop. I will keep a close eye on them.
Very nice first grow! I have a few questions though? You are in ffof so why do you water to runoff? This is completely not necessary you are basically overwatering your plants everytime you water. If you were growing in coco then yes water to runoff but you are in soil. If you want to correct defiencys then yes water to runoff.
Try cutting back on your water to runoff and keeping the pots waterlogged and you will notice a huge increase in growth. When the roots stay soaked you are gonna kill roots plus roots don't go looking for water when they are soaked in it.
Either way I am watching along. If that royal kush is from emerald triangle seeds and is a fem seed be careful of herm plants. They are known to have issues with there fem seeds producing herm plants. I also have royal purple kush in the fridge FEMs.
Try cutting back on your water to runoff and keeping the pots waterlogged and you will notice a huge increase in growth. When the roots stay soaked you are gonna kill roots plus roots don't go looking for water when they are soaked in it.
Either way I am watching along. If that royal kush is from emerald triangle seeds and is a fem seed be careful of herm plants. They are known to have issues with there fem seeds producing herm plants. I also have royal purple kush in the fridge FEMs.
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Stonyherbs
Mikenite69. Hey thanks for stoping in. Also thanks for the advice. Us newbies need to be helped every now and again. 
The Royal is from G13 labs and the blue hash is from Dinafem. They are both feminized seed. I will definately keep an eye out for hermies.(Thank you).
Also when i water i soak the soil. But i dont aim for run off. I only did that on my last post because of the rotten smell and i wanted to make sure the whole root ball got a good soak with the hydrogen peroxide solution. It did seem to help. As both plants look healthy and the putrid odor is gone. I am gonna post a couple of new pics. Both girls are going to undergo some mild training this week.
The Royal is from G13 labs and the blue hash is from Dinafem. They are both feminized seed. I will definately keep an eye out for hermies.(Thank you).
Also when i water i soak the soil. But i dont aim for run off. I only did that on my last post because of the rotten smell and i wanted to make sure the whole root ball got a good soak with the hydrogen peroxide solution. It did seem to help. As both plants look healthy and the putrid odor is gone. I am gonna post a couple of new pics. Both girls are going to undergo some mild training this week.
