Red_Greenery's Handyman's DIY Grow Tub

[DurbanPoison]

Red Greenery -

About the 'russian' guy - I found that old bonsai thread I think we chatted a bit about. It was a difficult read as english wasn't his first language. Anyway - the thread was dead - but the main link to it had his OG name and the link showing how to make like true mj bonsai or something that really looked like bonsai. I searched his name all over google to see if maybe he went elsewhere and all I found was a huge drug op with a guy that went by his alies who just recently got the bust partially for mj and other stuff. I'm guessing it was him but idunno for sure - who knows. Not that big of a deal anyhow.

As far as my temps - here's my little journal. I'll be updating with some new pics later today. My Grow Journal Leave your mark if you like! I was able to get my temps down to mid 80's which is a LOT better than mid 90's like I was at. I just put a hole in my reflector and put some ducting to it from my exhaust fan. Seems to have worked out nicely.

 

[DurbanPoison]

One last thing - about vegging out seeds. I think 30 days is the bare minimum. You'll be disappointed too if that's all the veg time you give. I've had to do that in my first two grows for... I cant remember why - but they were extremely minimal yields. I say if you want to make it worth your time and hard work, give it at least 45-60 days of veg from seed and you'll be at least remotely satisfied.

 

[StayHigh149]

Red, I'm so glad that ur model (& Nimby's) popped back up! I have been looking all over for it since I relocated from Florida & couldn't find them anywhere!!!
Lemme ask u ?, Did you need 2 use a remote ballast to connect the lite or did u just wire it to an extension cord & plug into a power strip?
I have all of the materials except for the lighting (which confuses me cuz stores sell so many diff types of lites & fixtures)....I was gonna construct it last year but the bud was plentiful, so I didn't really need to. Now, since I moved to a diff state...I can't find ANYTHING, so I need to become self-reliant very quickly.
I had some contacts up this way, but when OG went down, I lost all of them.....so......IF IT'S TO BE....IT'S UP TO ME!!!

Thanks, in advance, for ur help!

 

[Guest]

Hey Durban,

too bad about the Russian dude. I wanna bonsai a plant after my next grow. I'm sure a bonsai thread will come up as IC evolves. It's still only a shadow of OG at it's best.

You're absolutely right about the veg time. I was just pointing out that to go perpetual, there's enough time to fully veg out a plant while the flowering box is occupied.

I had one plant on the second last grow that I rushed into flowering. I had 2 pheno's and one was developing faster than the other. It turns out that the roots hadn't developed fully and the plant grew much slower than it's mate. I use 18/6 for veg now for better for root development compared to 24/7.

That's great that you're getting the temps under control. Your plants will love you for it!

Hey Stayhigh - welcome to the Lodge.

I use CFL lighting which has the ballast built into the lamp. I use a bathroom fixture and wire an extension cord to it. This makes the wiring very simple. The lamps just screw into the fixture.

HPS and fluro tubes have an external ballast that has to be wired in. You can buy remote ballasts for HPS ligthing or get a security light and take it apart and mount the ballast in a box. I think this is too advanced for starting out.

HPS lighting also produces 3 times the heat of CFL's so it's hard to ventilate.

My growbox uses parts that you can buy at K-Mart, WalMart or any hardware store so you don't have to go to a Hydroponics store wearing a trenchcoat and mustache or risk online or mail ordering.

I'd sure like to see your growbox when you get it together.

 

[Guest]

Hey red I have a question. The wattage in your growbox in cfl would be comparable to what wattage in hps?

 

[Guest]

Hey Overdoze,

that question is really loaded. HPS lighting produces light on the red end of the spectrum that flowering plants just love and also infared light that heats up everything the light shines on. CFL's produce cool blue-white lighting which has little radiant heat but also less red light. I'd say my 252 CFL is comparable to about 200 HPS.

It's all about lighting intensity. You need to talk Watts/Square Foot to really compare growboxes. 50w/sqft of any lighting will flower a plant, any more is a bonus but the temperature control and plant care has to be in balance too.

 

[sm0kateer4204]

good to see you on icmag, it's good to see your grows on a forum again.
i just did a quick info look up for you. your 252 watt's of 42 watt cfl's actually total's out to 15,900 lumen's. a 150 watt hps light puts out 16,000. so you are just under a 150hps in lumen out put.

if you took the plunge in to growing with hps light's. you would actually have a lower ambient temp in your grow box and have lower light bill. something to think about

 

[Guest]

Hey Smokateer, nice to see you again too!

Lumens smumens. I think the evenly distributed CFL's make a bit of difference compared to a single light with a high light concentration in the center and less at the edges.

Once you get enough light intensity, it's the grow methods that really make the big difference. I more than doubled my yield by switching from a single plant LST to a SCROG. The SCROG is the best way to grow in a small box and CFL's are the best for small growboxes due to the ease of ventilation. HPS lighting produces 3 times the heat of CFL's. Trust me, I've helped out lot's of HPS and CFL builders with their ventilation systems.

I may make a HPS growbox someday but it's not high on my to-do list. My little rubbermaid setup pumps out enough buddage to keep me very happy. My next cab plans will likely be a cabinet with CFL lighting.

 

[Trev]

anything under 150 watts of HID wont pump out nearly as much heat as a buncha cfls. my 70 watt stays cooler than the CFLs i use for veg.

remote ballasting will greatly reduce any heat issues. the bulb itself isnt so much the heat factor in low wattage HID's. on overgrow a guy had a setup much like this but with 3 tubs and a 150 HPS his temps were very reasonable..

just a thought, but anyway, love what you've done with the tubs my friend great to see you postin here at icmag! wish i could find some old OG buddies but they seemed to have vanished in thin air. keep it safe bro.

 

[Trev]

also i do agree about the light being evenly distributed, yet another reason CFL's are not only convinient for the everyday grower but cheap!

 

[Guest]

Hey there Trev, I remember lot's of 70W HPS systems on OG. They are great for micro grows especially when remote ballasted. I've seen the plants touching the 70W bulb cause they don't get that hot. AND you can ventilate with computer fans too. Unfortunately you don't see a lot of multiple 70W bulbs used because it's cheaper to buy a larger ballast and bulb setup. Most of the 70 watter come from security lights.

At 150W the CFL's are 3 times easier to cool than the HPS. The HPS bulb runs too hot for the plants to touch and the air flow needed is around 1 CFM per Watt where the CFL needs 0.3 CFM/Watt. Computer fans can still be used for the CFL's but the HPS guys are starting to need high powered blowers especially if an inline scrubber is used.

At 250W, the HPS systems need air cooled hoods and high powered blowers to keep the temps down. I've built my own air cooled hood and inline scrubber while still using computer fans. CFL's are definately easier to cool at this point.

What I've done here is designed an easy to build a growbox with high intensity lighting out of readily available parts. I get 3oz out of this puppy and I use a little over 1/4 oz a month. One harvest does me for a year. Like I said earlier Lumens-Schmumens.

 

[Guest]

Like I said earlier Lumens-Schmumens.

I beleive you said Lumens-SMUMENS earlier...

 

[Trev]

haha. see i wish i could pull that much from some tubs my friend thats why i respect you and your words. and i agree with what you said. and im not sure why more people dont use 70 watters. with some CFLs they can kick some major arse indeed. i pull 2 ounces from my 70 watt HPS box. none the less.. lighting dialed it comes down to pure technique.

when i have alot of herb. i smoke alot haha.
then i dont have any.. then i get a harvest and it seems as it if lasted only days.

keep it up guys! stay safe all.

 

[sm0kateer4204]

i think people just assume hid lighting realease's alot more heat than it really does. i used to grow inside rubbermaids like you do now. i used a 150watt hps light. to keep the box cool i used a single 80mm pc fan as an exaust, ( it couldnt have pushed more than 40 cfm) along with a passive intake on the bottom opposite side. i had a 6 inch desk fan inside the box to move around air aswell. but it obviously didnt lower temps. my box temp stayed in the low 80's which the plants didnt seem to mind at all. your multiple bulb setup is probably alot hotter than a single hid light.

on to a different subject. 70 watt hps light's are good little bulb's. but i do not suggest you put multiple of the same light in your grow box.

1 because 2 70 watt hps light's still have the same 4 inch limit for light penetration. and 2 because 2 70 watt hps bulb's run a whole lot hotter than 1 150 watt light setup.

3 ounces for you setup is very good. i never used my rubbermaid tub's long enough to try and get more weight from the setup.


here's an idea. someone with a 150hps light, ( i sold mine) let it run for a couple hour's, put a thermometer on your bulb and get the temp of the heat its actually putting out. then you red greenery measure the temp of one of your bulbs then multiply it by 6. this should give a reasonable estimation of which is putting out more heat right? try it in the name of science. sorry for babbling so long, later everyone.

 

[ixnay007]

It might be possible that 6 cfls put out more heat, but the 150 watt HPS will have it all concentrated in one small area, which means you'll need much more focused and directed cooling.

Say (completely out of my ass here) that the 150 puts out 8 BTUs a minute, the 6 CFLs put out 12.. you have to move enough air over that 1 bulb to remove 8 BTUs, but only move enough air over 6 bulbs to remove 2 BTUs from each one. Increased surface area man.

Increased surface area means increased heat dispersion.

 

[Guest]

Ok, it's time to pull out the charts and go technical on your asses.


This chart is from an electronics manufacturer for the purpose of cooling electonic circuit boards with fans. CFM lighting falls in this catagory. The airflow for a 10*F rise is roughly 0.3 CFM per watt.



I picked up this chart from OG from the HPS user group. Use this chart for calculating the airflow needed to cool the grow box when using an air cooled hood for all common light ranges. Interestingly, the airflow for a 10*F rise is roughly 0.3 CFM Watt.



I had a chart for bare HPS bulbs at one time. I remember the cooling rate was 1 CFM per Watt or Smumens.

 

[sm0kateer4204]

ixnay, either way all the heat from either setup's would raise to the highest part of the grow cab. which in turn leave's you with a big heat pocket at the top of a rubbermaid tub. so ultimately you would need a less powerful fan to cool less heat, correct?


red greenery, that chart is missing alot of other variances to go on. a couple being watt's per square foot. also the ambient temperature of the room.

 

[ixnay007]

In both situations, you want to have enough air moving to remove the heat as it dissipates directly from the bulb, the more fresh air that comes into contact with the source of the heat, the easier it is to keep the ambient temperatures from rising..

I think that in the CFL setup the amount of air passing through the room would be enough to prevent heat pockets, above all because there needs to be less air passing over the bulbs to move the heat away.

Take for example the processor in your computer, it will have a heat sink on top which is a piece of metal with fins, fins which provide added surface area for the dissipation of the heat, and in return need a lower volume of air passing over them.. if you take off the heat sink*, you'll need to turn a box fan on your processor to keep it cool.

* DO NOT TAKE OFF YOUR HEAT SINK

 

[Guest]

Smokateer, the idea of the charts is to size air flow to wattage. The efficiency of the lights is low and mostly heat is produced from all forms of lighting. The size of the box comes into play when handling radiant heat from HPS lighting but not so much with
CFL's.

CFL's transfer heat to the air in the growbox by conduction and convection. I've been able to isolate the heat to just the lighting section by using the acrylic sheild. There is actually little heat transferred to the grow area which runs 1-2 degree's above ambient.

The air flow though my growchamber is very low at 10-15 CFM and my box runs very cool at only 1-2 *F above ambient cause there's no radiant heat from the CFL's that make it to the growbox.

The reason the chart is based on ambient temps so you can work out your worst case temperatures and select the right airflow. My growchamber runs 1-2 *F above ambient and can operate during a heatwave.

Hey Ixnay, with the heatshied in place all the airflow is very tighly directed at the lights. If you're designing an open box, you want the fans at the top of the box and close the the lighting.

 

[ixnay007]

Yeah, it's tightly directed, that's why you need so little.. if it were open, you'd probably need at least double that, no?

I wonder if that airflow could keep a 150 cool in the same situation?