Recovery Unit, Butane Tank for Lil' Terp Style System

[Lebniis]

Ok I'd like some critique operating the Lil' Terp. Right now I'm pulling a vacuum on the unit and using that vacuum to pull the butane into the unit through the top of the column. The supply tank sits in a warm bath on the ground, obviously not inverting the supply tank. After the vacuum cannot pull any more butane, I close the valves and do a 1 min inversion soak right away. I flip the unit back upright and begin recovery immediately.

gray, do you have any suggestions about inversion time/ soak time? If I invert the supply tank and pull the butane through the vapor port can I increase the amount of butane into the Lil' Terp?

Steel wool seems to prevent the material from getting through into the collection chamber better than a coffee filter. The steel wool when flicked with your finger releases particles which I feel like could be getting into my oil. I would like to use coffee filters but I must not be packing it tight enough to create a seal.

 

[Lebniis]

Can someone link or recommend a way to use heat on the column?

 

[A6 Grower]

Can someone link or recommend a way to use heat on the column?

http://www.oemheaters.com/c-763-heating-tape-with-adjustable-thermostat.aspx
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Saw these today and saved the link actually.

Also @GW..... i had a question about getting butane. I bought a tank off ebay "MASTERCOOL 50LB REFRIGERANT RECOVERY TANK-63010" Do i take that to airgas to get filled or do i get a tank from them then transfer it to my tank? And this is the butane to get "N Butane Instrument Size LP5 CGA 510 N Butane Instrument Size LP5 CGA 510 With Siphon Tube " ? Thanks for the help, my tank will be here thursday(shipped to wrong address, i had so many issues ordering crap this time of ebay, first time in seven years) and by then my machine will be all put together and ill be ready to run, as long as there are no hold up from airgas, my buddy has an account for getting oxygen and propane through them for glass blowing so im hoping we wont have any issues.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Ok I'd like some critique operating the Lil' Terp. Right now I'm pulling a vacuum on the unit and using that vacuum to pull the butane into the unit through the top of the column. The supply tank sits in a warm bath on the ground, obviously not inverting the supply tank. After the vacuum cannot pull any more butane, I close the valves and do a 1 min inversion soak right away. I flip the unit back upright and begin recovery immediately.

gray, do you have any suggestions about inversion time/ soak time? If I invert the supply tank and pull the butane through the vapor port can I increase the amount of butane into the Lil' Terp?

Steel wool seems to prevent the material from getting through into the collection chamber better than a coffee filter. The steel wool when flicked with your finger releases particles which I feel like could be getting into my oil. I would like to use coffee filters but I must not be packing it tight enough to create a seal.

You will need to invert the supply tank to get adequate butane to transfer optimum extraction.

I have been using three soaks on the Lil Terp, counting the first one when the column is first flooded from the supply tank. I flip the unit upside down for a minute or so to allow to reflood, before flipping right side up again.

We haven't had any ongoing issues with the coffee filter, but if steel wool works better for you, I would use it.

If you rinse the oil from the Lil Terp and winterize it, the double filtering pretty much gets rid of any plant material or in your case, metal filings.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Can someone link or recommend a way to use heat on the column?

We wrapped our Mk I columns with pipe and gutter heating tape from Pratt Electric, but are now looking at plastic conduit bending heat blankets, which could be taken on and off and used to heat more than one column.

The only time we run heat, is on the final cycle after the dump valve has been opened, to help keep the column from freezing up under vacuum. Not critical to the process, but a nuance to improve efficiency.

 

[Gray Wolf]

http://www.oemheaters.com/c-763-heating-tape-with-adjustable-thermostat.aspx
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Saw these today and saved the link actually.

Also @GW..... i had a question about getting butane. I bought a tank off ebay "MASTERCOOL 50LB REFRIGERANT RECOVERY TANK-63010" Do i take that to airgas to get filled or do i get a tank from them then transfer it to my tank? And this is the butane to get "N Butane Instrument Size LP5 CGA 510 N Butane Instrument Size LP5 CGA 510 With Siphon Tube " ? Thanks for the help, my tank will be here thursday(shipped to wrong address, i had so many issues ordering crap this time of ebay, first time in seven years) and by then my machine will be all put together and ill be ready to run, as long as there are no hold up from airgas, my buddy has an account for getting oxygen and propane through them for glass blowing so im hoping we wont have any issues.

Right tank and butane selection. We transfer the butane to one of our 50# refrigerant recovery tanks, and decant it to the different Terpenator tanks from there. We do so by hooking a hose from the supply dip tube, to the recieving tank vapor port, and setting the supply tank in hot water, while the receiving tank is in ice water.

We transfer the last little bit using the Appion, because we are usually in a hurry.

 

[A6 Grower]

OK so after i transfer the butane over to my tank i'm good to go? With my brand new 50# tank do i vacuum it before transferring over the butane? And from that point on, the butane stays in that 50# tank? Im assume the liquid port on the tank connects to a siphon and the vapor port doesn't? Sorry if any of things questions seem dumb, i have zero experience with this type of equipment and stuff. I'm more of a machine type of person here. Trying to learn as much as i can.

Im slowly learning what everything is and does, i really appreciate all the help you have provided GW. Anyone i have shown your site to is just amazed at the available information.

Thanks!

 

[Hydrosun]

you are correct, and a few pages back we discussed pulling the vacuum and then filling the tank.

 

[Lebniis]

Would you then have to connect to the vapor port of the supply tank? I don't think the liquid can be pulled through the dip tube when the supply tank is upside down.

You will need to invert the supply tank to get adequate butane to transfer optimum extraction.

I have been using three soaks on the Lil Terp, counting the first one when the column is first flooded from the supply tank. I flip the unit upside down for a minute or so to allow to reflood, before flipping right side up again.

We haven't had any ongoing issues with the coffee filter, but if steel wool works better for you, I would use it.

If you rinse the oil from the Lil Terp and winterize it, the double filtering pretty much gets rid of any plant material or in your case, metal filings.

 

[Gray Wolf]

OK so after i transfer the butane over to my tank i'm good to go? With my brand new 50# tank do i vacuum it before transferring over the butane? And from that point on, the butane stays in that 50# tank? Im assume the liquid port on the tank connects to a siphon and the vapor port doesn't? Sorry if any of things questions seem dumb, i have zero experience with this type of equipment and stuff. I'm more of a machine type of person here. Trying to learn as much as i can.

Im slowly learning what everything is and does, i really appreciate all the help you have provided GW. Anyone i have shown your site to is just amazed at the available information.

Thanks!

Yes, we always eliminate the atmosphere from a tank before adding flammable fuel.

We actually use two 50# tanks. One to store butane in and one with about 5/10 lbs in it, for the process tank.

Correct about the vapor and liquid valves on the 50# tank. The red and blue color code may be backwards, but the valves themselves are usually labled liquid and vapor.

Thanks for the good thoughts bro! A labor of love...........

 

[Lebniis]

So....

I am getting very frustrated and almost angry with myself and this process. The Terp works amazing. The recovery unit is flawless.

But... Every damn oil I make waxes up either during the vac process or if it happens to stay shatter-like it waxes up over time just sitting out. It is driving me nuts as all I want it to make a nice shatter.

There are periods of time when the oil is sitting partially purged, out of the vacuum. I'm using low heat in the vacuum. I use high quality trim only. I have purged thinly, thick and everything in between I've folded, flipped, spread it all waxes up. Different strains, different temps everything.

My conclusion right now is that as soon as I scrape from the Terp I need to purge immediately. I also need to keep the oil viscous enough to do the purging all at one time rather than short periods over sometime many days.

I'm going fucking nuts trying to get some consistent results. Gray has been more then helpful, I've spent hours following and reading his advice.

Please help before I sell my body on the corner.

Thnx

 

[Gray Wolf]

So....

I am getting very frustrated and almost angry with myself and this process. The Terp works amazing. The recovery unit is flawless.

But... Every damn oil I make waxes up either during the vac process or if it happens to stay shatter-like it waxes up over time just sitting out. It is driving me nuts as all I want it to make a nice shatter.

There are periods of time when the oil is sitting partially purged, out of the vacuum. I'm using low heat in the vacuum. I use high quality trim only. I have purged thinly, thick and everything in between I've folded, flipped, spread it all waxes up. Different strains, different temps everything.

My conclusion right now is that as soon as I scrape from the Terp I need to purge immediately. I also need to keep the oil viscous enough to do the purging all at one time rather than short periods over sometime many days.

I'm going fucking nuts trying to get some consistent results. Gray has been more then helpful, I've spent hours following and reading his advice.

Please help before I sell my body on the corner.

Thnx

What times and temperatures are you using?

 

[Lebniis]

Sometimes I am waiting a few hours before I do the purge in the vacuum chamber. Although I do purge for about 5 minutes in the Lil Terp.

Otherwise I am using about 110-115 temps for varying amounts of time. I suppose my inconsistencies make it hard to diagnose.

I will basically get to a point after a few hours where 110-115 isn't viscous enough for the bubbles to be popping so I either stop there or turn up the heat to 120-125. Spreading thin helps, but I feel like that causes surface tension and makes bubbles popping difficult.

 

[knowhere]

purge for 1 - 2 hours under high vacuum between 95 - 115f, it helps if you slowly rock back and forth or swirl it in circlar motion ( think like your trying to "coat or paint the bottom of the chamber with the oil in a thin layer) you could allow atmospheric gasses back into the chamber a few times during this process but just make sure to run that air through a filter dryer first to prevent pickup of moisture from the air outside the chamber,... Also are you completely drying out your herbs first before running humidity can cause this issue

 

[Lebniis]

Thanks for the advice, how would you recommend drying the herb? Ive been leaving it in a room with a dehumidifier in an open bag for days before use.

When you talk about 1-2 hours purge, are you saying do so in my separate vac chamber or in the lil Terp itself?

 

[Hydrosun]

Paper bag and small closet with dehumidifier, for many days before extraction.... Perhaps water in your material is causing the "Waxing" at the expense of the shatter?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Sometimes I am waiting a few hours before I do the purge in the vacuum chamber. Although I do purge for about 5 minutes in the Lil Terp.

Otherwise I am using about 110-115 temps for varying amounts of time. I suppose my inconsistencies make it hard to diagnose.

I will basically get to a point after a few hours where 110-115 isn't viscous enough for the bubbles to be popping so I either stop there or turn up the heat to 120-125. Spreading thin helps, but I feel like that causes surface tension and makes bubbles popping difficult.

If you spread the oil thin, 2 hours at 115F and -29.9" Hg is more than enough time to purge, so I suspect you may be watching the CO2 bubbles?

When purging in a thin film in at that temperature and pressure, the solvent will come off first in random small to large bubbles, accompanied by small fizzy bubbles from decarboxylation. If you stop purging when the random bubbles are gone, and only the fizzy bubbles remain, you will keep your oil in the carboxylic acid shatter state.

 

[Lebniis]

Thanks again, I suppose practice makes perfect... Will come back with results...

 

[Chunkypigs]

Nice build! Big K+ to GW for holding so many hands along the way, it's people like you that make the web great! Someday I hope to be able to use this info and stop purging to atmosphere.

 

[GreenGeek]

Here's my system, Almost finished. I had my guy put a tripod feet configuration on the collection tank, so i can put a carbiner hook system so i don't have to hold it upside down for 5 mins so it will drain down the column.

rather than use a soup warmer, I'll be using a large stock pot on a corning 10x10 magentic stirrer hot plate, to keep the warm water consistent and moving around the oil recovery tank.